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ESPN (A bunch of Death-Spiraling maroons)

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Mike80 said:
... pedestrian achievements in meaningless games ...
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I thought Sam had a couple of sacks in the game - am I wrong? If he did, then even in a preseason game against the woeful Browns offense that's an indicator that Sam might be a more significant player than many of the pundits were predicting. He seems to be a guy whose production consistently outdoes his measurables.

Reminds me of a lot of Wisconsin defensive players, to be honest. Bunch of two-stars running 4.8s who nonetheless always seem to be around the football in position to make plays.
 
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MaxBuck said:
I thought Sam had a couple of sacks in the game - am I wrong? If he did, then even in a preseason game against the woeful Browns offense that's an indicator that Sam might be a more significant player than many of the pundits were predicting. He seems to be a guy whose production consistently outdoes his measurables.

Reminds me of a lot of Wisconsin defensive players, to be honest. Bunch of two-stars running 4.8s who nonetheless always seem to be around the football in position to make plays.
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There are Wisconsin players who were much better in college who don't get drafted. virtually all of Sams' sacks, tfls, etc came against teams like Vanderbilt and Mizzou's joke of a non-conference schedule last year.
 
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Mike80 said:
There are Wisconsin players who were much better in college who don't get drafted. virtually all of Sams' sacks, tfls, etc came against teams like Vanderbilt and Mizzou's joke of a non-conference schedule last year.
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Name a few of those Wisconsin players.

Lots of players pile up stats against crap teams. 5 of Joey Bosa's 7.5 sacks last year came against Northwestern, Illinois and Indiana, yet nobody here is questioning his production.
 
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jlb1705 said:
Name a few of those Wisconsin players.

Lots of players pile up stats against crap teams. 5 of Joey Bosa's 7.5 sacks last year came against Northwestern, Illinois and Indiana, yet nobody here is questioning his production.
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Was Bosa voted the B1G defensive player of the year? Do you realize how close Bosa's stats were to Sams'? Sam had 3.5 more sacks and exactly 2 more TFLs than Bosa did. Bosa was a freshman as you well know. I'm not questioning his production as I am the hype surrounding it.

Here's a breakdown game by game of Sam's stats ---> http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/michael-sam-1/gamelog/2013/

It's very possible Sam got that award because of how putrid the rest of the SEC was defensively. More importantly, if these stats were truly indicative of his talent, wouldn't you think he would have been drafted before the 7th round?

And I'm still a little confused as to why the gay rights movement is in such sorry shape that it needs sacks in NFL preseason games for advancement.
 
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Mike80 said:
Was Bosa voted the B1G defensive player of the year? Do you realize how close Bosa's stats were to Sams'? Sam had 3.5 more sacks and exactly 2 more TFLs than Bosa did. Bosa was a freshman as you well know. I'm not questioning his production as I am the hype surrounding it.

Here's a breakdown game by game of Sam's stats ---> http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/michael-sam-1/gamelog/2013/

It's very possible Sam got that award because of how putrid the rest of the SEC was defensively. More importantly, if these stats were truly indicative of his talent, wouldn't you think he would have been drafted before the 7th round?

And I'm still a little confused as to why the gay rights movement is in such sorry shape that it needs sacks in NFL preseason games for advancement.
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Does not compute. S-E-C! S-E-C! S-E-C!
 
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Mike80 said:
Was Bosa voted the B1G defensive player of the year? Do you realize how close Bosa's stats were to Sams'? Sam had 3.5 more sacks and exactly 2 more TFLs than Bosa did. Bosa was a freshman as you well know. I'm not questioning his production as I am the hype surrounding it.

Here's a breakdown game by game of Sam's stats ---> http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/michael-sam-1/gamelog/2013/

It's very possible Sam got that award because of how putrid the rest of the SEC was defensively. More importantly, if these stats were truly indicative of his talent, wouldn't you think he would have been drafted before the 7th round?

And I'm still a little confused as to why the gay rights movement is in such sorry shape that it needs sacks in NFL preseason games for advancement.
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You said there were undrafted Wisconsin players who were better than him. That sure sounds like questioning his production to me. You assert he piled up stats against lousy teams - again, questioning his production.

There's nothing wrong with questioning his production though. Perhaps his stats are not indicative of his talent. Perhaps they are indicative of his suitability to Missouri's defense, but not a B1G defense or pro one. As you pointed out, he was drafted in the 7th round. That indicates to me that NFL talent evaluators as a whole aren't sold on him being a productive pro - they are questioning his production too. Being drafted in the seventh round is about as far away from being overrated or overhyped as you can get when it comes to the opinions of NFL scouts and front offices. Don't conflate that with what ESPN is doing. People whose job it is to assemble winning football teams are not overhyping him - just the people whose job it is to get clickthrus and TV viewers. I have no problem with anyone who wants to claim that Sam is being overhyped by way of ESPN. What I'm calling bullshit on is the assertion that he's being overrated by way of his draft position. That argument in the case of a late 7th round pick is absurd on its face.

Meanwhile, I'll keep waiting for you to name those undrafted Wisconsin players (plural!) that were better than him - either as collegians or pros. I'll accept either one.
 
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jlb1705 said:
You said there were undrafted Wisconsin players who were better than him. That sure sounds like questioning his production to me. You assert he piled up stats against lousy teams - again, questioning his production.

There's nothing wrong with questioning his production though. Perhaps his stats are not indicative of his talent. Perhaps they are indicative of his suitability to Missouri's defense, but not a B1G defense or pro one. As you pointed out, he was drafted in the 7th round. That indicates to me that NFL talent evaluators as a whole aren't sold on him being a productive pro - they are questioning his production too. Being drafted in the seventh round is about as far away from being overrated or overhyped as you can get when it comes to the opinions of NFL scouts and front offices. Don't conflate that with what ESPN is doing. People whose job it is to assemble winning football teams are not overhyping him - just the people whose job it is to get clickthrus and TV viewers. I have no problem with anyone who wants to claim that Sam is being overhyped by way of ESPN. What I'm calling bull[Mark May] on is the assertion that he's being overrated by way of his draft position. That argument in the case of a late 7th round pick is absurd on its face.

Meanwhile, I'll keep waiting for you to name those undrafted Wisconsin players (plural!) that were better than him - either as collegians or pros. I'll accept either one.
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You got me there...I was thinking about Mike Newkirk but his stats weren't as good as I thought I remembered. I had also thought O'Brien Schofield was drafted in the 6th or 7th round, but he was actually drafted in the 4th.

Still and all, how many 7th round draft picks have multiple front page stories on ESPiN? Answer me that.
 
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