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ESPN (A bunch of Death-Spiraling maroons)

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Sgt Brutus said:
Small sample size from the 90s so I am not sure how you can say for certain he can't do what those other coaches did.

You're basing you arguement from 1 year at Toledo (9-2) and 5 years at Michigan st (34-24-1); last year went (9-2). Right now, I'm willing to bet he could go to almost ANY program and turn them around. He's a great recruiter and coach. We don't even know if Meyer, Dantonio, Tressel could cut it at the NFL either.

There's very little substance backing up what you are saying. You could be right but we just don't know with the sample size given. In addition, it's hard to believe he hasn't evolved and improved as a coach since his Michigan St days.
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Saban is also 63 years old and has several national titles under his belt. He's not going to rebuild a program at this stage in his career, and at best, when not given optimal conditions (like what Alabama has had), his ceiling was Bo Pelini....

If you really want a program builder, you get a guy like Bill Snyder (in his younger years) or someone along the lines of a Mack Brown or even DickRod. Someone who has a system that will work at any given place (except scUM :lol: ) and where he'll have years to put his program into place and get his players into that system.
 
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I'll never understand the attempt to diminish Saban's accomplishments at MSU.

He took over in 1995 amid scandal after Coach Perles was fired, AD Merrily Dean Baker resigned, and the NCAA was investigating reports of grade fixing and no-show classes. From 91-94, Perles had gone 3-8, 5-6, 6-6, and 4-5 at the point of his termination in November, though the 94 record was changed to 0-12 since all the games were subsequently forfeited. According to players' parents at that time, the 92 & 93 seasons probably should have been forfeit as well. The NCAA actually showed mercy.

MSU's first choice to replace Perles was Tom Osborne (lol), followed by Fran Ganter, Tony Dungy, and Rick Neuheisel.

Saban was, at best, their fifth choice, and walked into a dumpster fire that was equal parts Rutgers athletics dysfunction and North Carolina academic integrity and compliance. That he never went worse than .500 and turned out a 10 win season before bailing for LSU is really remarkable. He also did this from 95-99, which might have been the high point of Big Ten competitiveness in my lifetime.
 
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Not ESPN, but on CBS' Inside College Football just now Randy Cross picked the Pedsters to win this weekend for his upset pick. He said something like, "I pick the Nittany Lions to go into the...the...the game and win." Immediately after which one of the other panelists said "...The Shoe." Fucking moron...
 
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Sgt Brutus said:
Small sample size from the 90s so I am not sure how you can say for certain he can't do what those other coaches did.

You're basing you arguement from 1 year at Toledo (9-2) and 5 years at Michigan st (34-24-1); last year went (9-2). Right now, I'm willing to bet he could go to almost ANY program and turn them around. He's a great recruiter and coach. We don't even know if Meyer, Dantonio, Tressel could cut it at the NFL either.

There's very little substance backing up what you are saying. You could be right but we just don't know with the sample size given. In addition, it's hard to believe he hasn't evolved and improved as a coach since his Michigan St days.
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And your entire argument is based on speculation and believing his reputation can make miracles.
Mine is based on reality and what actually happened. And not just in the 90s... his stint with the Dolphins was another dead giveaway what happens when he's in a situation where parity is the rule of thumb.
 
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Dryden said:
I'll never understand the attempt to diminish Saban's accomplishments at MSU.

He took over in 1995 amid scandal after Coach Perles was fired, AD Merrily Dean Baker resigned, and the NCAA was investigating reports of grade fixing and no-show classes. From 91-94, Perles had gone 3-8, 5-6, 6-6, and 4-5 at the point of his termination in November, though the 94 record was changed to 0-12 since all the games were subsequently forfeited. According to players' parents at that time, the 92 & 93 seasons probably should have been forfeit as well. The NCAA actually showed mercy.

MSU's first choice to replace Perles was Tom Osborne (lol), followed by Fran Ganter, Tony Dungy, and Rick Neuheisel.

Saban was, at best, their fifth choice, and walked into a dumpster fire that was equal parts Rutgers athletics dysfunction and North Carolina academic integrity and compliance. That he never went worse than .500 and turned out a 10 win season before bailing for LSU is really remarkable. He also did this from 95-99, which might have been the high point of Big Ten competitiveness in my lifetime.
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- As Plaxico Burress would be quick to remind us, he never turned out a 10-win season at MSU
- Against P6/BCS/whatever he went 5-5-1, 6-6, 5-5, 5-5, 8-2
- With 2 losses against Mid-Majors (Louisville, Colorado State)

Nobody said he was a bad coach... but a 0.500 record isn't exactly "rebuilding" anything. And certainly demonstrates a lower turnout than he had at places like LSU and Alabama where the brand names and locations helped significantly with recruiting.
As for situations... we all remember this guy, right?

johnlsmith-slapself.gif
 
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