DT Depth and Recruiting (Split from Barksdale)

[osugrad21]

Guys, WadC just brought up a good point to me and I want to make sure I am making my point clearly. I do agree that we need to recruit more DL...but my opinion is that we are fine for the next few years once you break down how the DL is recruited. A few years back when we started doing blogs, I did a quick "Basics of the 4-3"

From that blog:

NoseGuard (NG)-- The job of the NG is to stuff the A gap between the center and guard. This position is usually, at least traditionally, secured by a heavy, low-centered player who can force a double team block from the guard and center. The NG's job is not to blast into the backfield but instead to engage and occupy the lineman to keep the Mike LB free to make the play. This position is not a glamor job but is very important to the success of the unit. If the NG is unable to command a double team, the guard is free to move onto the second level and occupy the LB.

Defensive Tackle or 3 Technique (DT/3)-- The Defensive Tackle is responsible for the B gap. The Defensive Tackle is responsible for the B gap only but is also asked to help control the strong side A gap by reading the block of the guard. The Defensive Tackle is usually the more athletic of the interior lineman as his quickness is a key attribute in playing the A and B gaps.

The NG is a one technique...he can be shaded, cocked, whatever. His job is to control the A gap and occupy two OL...therefore, he should be the heavier, sturdy type...your prototype huge mass player or the great balance wrestler-type (sound familiar?) This player does not have to be dominant...just steady. However, my point is that we don't need a bunch of these types on the roster. A few will do.

Now, the 3 technique is the athlete...he should be able to play 2 gaps and better be able to do so at top tier college football. This is your hybrid athlete at OSU...the guy with the length to shoot his hands and keep the OL off and the quicks to burst into his gap and disrupt. Look at these names we have listed and a few others I added for discussion:

92 Todd Denlinger
87 Lawrence Wilson *
84 Doug Worthington
78 Alex Barrow
72 Dexter Larimore
50 Vernon Gholston *
6 Robert Rose
91 Ryan Williams (6'6 245, RS freshman...might need to be in this convo)
94 Walter Dublin *
93 Nader Abdallah
Solomon Thomas

Hopefuls:

Ben Martin *
Devon Still
Joseph Barksdale

The (*) is for guys I think stay exclusively at DE...however, everyone else could be fair game or at least get a look.

NG/1techs possibilities:

Abdallah, Larimore, Denlinger

3tech possibilities:

Todd Denlinger, Doug Worthington, Alex Barrow, Dexter Larimore, Robert Rose, Ryan Williams, Solomon Thomas

To me, I see a pretty solid rotation...if Barksdale and Still come on board, it has a chance to be a great rotation.

 

[cbrian815]

Defensive Tackles

I should have said what I meant and that is an outright BIG 10 Champion. This year was our first in a very long time(20 years). I wasnt trying to be gloom and doom but even some of you have to be scratching your head at our success rate at the positions of DT and OT.
Thanks for the information with the nose guard explanation. This was a big help but still leaves me concerned about having 2 quality players there next year. I do understand that Maupin and Cotton hurt alot but I expected us to cover that up last year and this year with our recruiting classes. Go Bucks

 

[RB07OSU]

Great points on Maupin and Cotton...certainly hadn't thought of that yet. That is also a good point though grad on how we use the 3-tech opposed to the 1 tech. Pitcock and Patterson are the perfect examples of that. Now I realize it is somewhat unrealistic to expect any replacements to come in and play at the level that the killer P's have, and I do think that it's to early to panic for the next year or two at DT with the guys mentioned. I'm talking much further down the road though, when Larimore will be a junior and Denlinger a senior. If we clean up on some serious '08 talent, I think we will likely be fine. If not, I think we will have to stop our rotation system and hope for everyone to stay healthy. Even if you include Thomas as a possibility, you have only Denlinger, Larimore, and Thomas for that year. If anyone gets hurt or isn't on the team at that point for whatever reason we could be in serious trouble, especially if we don't get some studs in '08 at DT. I think more than anything what makes it seem so bad though is also the fact that I think most were confident in landing Brent, Barksdale, and possibly Jeremiah...to go from those 3 to none is quite a drastic change. Not to mention behind them it seemed we would pick from Still and Derrick Morgan if we had room for them and we may miss on Still as well.

 

[osugrad21]

to go from those 3 to none is quite a drastic change.

It ain't over till its over...stay tuned

Other than that, I have nothing else for you...if you feel we are in trouble down the road....well you are free to hold that opinion. I'll take a different route.

Good discussion.

 

[RB07OSU]

It ain't over till its over...stay tuned

Other than that, I have nothing else for you...if you feel we are in trouble down the road....well you are free to hold that opinion. I'll take a different route.

Good discussion.

Good point...I didn't mean to totally conceed that we won't get Barksdale or Still. In fact, I think we get Still but it doesn't look positive for Barksdale. I think it's more likely than not that we could end up in trouble down the road if we don't get one of those guys but I'm not saying I'm 100% on it. Even if the DT's end up not being satisfactory, I am very excited about our DE's, LB's, and DB's for the future. But yes very good discussion.:)

 

[808 Buck]

Defensive Tackle or 3 Technique (DT/3)-- The Defensive Tackle is responsible for the B gap. The Defensive Tackle is responsible for the B gap only but is also asked to help control the strong side A gap by reading the block of the guard. The Defensive Tackle is usually the more athletic of the interior lineman as his quickness is a key attribute in playing the A and B gaps.

To add a little, just because someone is aligned in a presnap 3 technique, that doesn't mean he has to stay there. Schematically, there are a ton of stunts that can be run. Those highlighted words of grad's post reflect the qualities of DE/DL hybrids. I expect to see a lot of movement along the front next year. The continued improvement of the back seven will allow the staff to bring a lot more pressure. Jenkins will be dominant on one side, and I'm confident that the other corner spot will be solid. Why am I talking about corner play in a defensive line discussion? Because if you have dominant corners, you can play a lot of man coverage, and "bring the house." That means that there is less of a need for the traditional defensive tackle. Now when we play power running teams, specifically Wisky and UM, we will have some challenges, but our inside LB's should be much stronger as well. In terms of recruiting, we will see what transpires on signing day. If we miss this year, expect to see more slots allotted to the power category in 2008.

 

[crazybuckfan40]

This might easily be one of the best threads ever...

It all comes to versatility on the d-line and that is what Tressel is recruiting, is guys the can play in and out.

 

[korchiki]

i know this will probably get shot down but...

would we consider a 3-4 defense or a 3-3-5 or something like that...with all of our speed it would be kinda cool...really just an idea...i know we dont have the NG for the reasons stated above...

also i know this was mentioned in another thread but i dont really remember it...are there any college defenses that run anything other than 4-3

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

All I'll say in this thread is, ya'll need to listen to what both 21 and 808 are saying. Simply put, "They know their shiznit".

 

[crazybuckfan40]

i know this will probably get shot down but...

would we consider a 3-4 defense or a 3-3-5 or something like that...with all of our speed it would be kinda cool...really just an idea...i know we dont have the NG for the reasons stated above...

also i know this was mentioned in another thread but i dont really remember it...are there any college defenses that run anything other than 4-3

It has been hinted at, and you will see us line up in 3 man fronts some times when we are in nickel and dime packages. Or when we bring the Leo in we are somewhat in a 3-4 but with the Leo either blitzing or dropping into coverage. Playing like a lb/de type role. We will always have a base 4-3 but Heacock will always get the best players on the field however he can.

As for colleges that run 3-3-5 I do believe that WVU runs that, and I am sure there are plenty of colleges that run it and the 3-4. I know Michigan attempted it a couple years ago and it didnt work so well for them, but if a team would recruit the right players for the system it could possibly work well for them, but that means a team is going to need to be able to pull enough lb's to have a steady 4 in the starting lineup and at times that can be tough.

 

[WaitingforKickoff]

This might easily be one of the best threads ever...

It all comes to versatility on the d-line and that is what Tressel is recruiting, is guys the can play in and out.

Agreed. Nice inputs from everybody. Optimism is backed with reason and concerns voiced by posters are met with reason and persuasion. Good job to everybody!

The main issue for me is not as much about talent as it is about youth and depth. Regardless of who we lineup out there, we are going to rely on relative youngsters with one year and less of experience. You have to admit, that is a situation that the staff would never want to be in ideally. Granted, we have Denlinger, who has shown flashes of brilliance and looks to be the next Pitcock. But in my opinion, someone else has to step up like Gholston did this year for us to be successful in the middle of our defense as we would like to be.

Recruiting-wise, we got to get more bodies in the trenches. A great point that was brought up earlier was that Cotton and Maupin are both no longer on the team. As union said before, it is tough for northern teams to recruit DTs, and losing those two in the same year certainly hurt. And rewinding back to NSD 2003, we missed a few guys, namely Turk McBride (who ended up being a pretty good DT for the Vols), Ray Edwards (pretty good player for the Boilermakers), Shawn Crable (decent player coming off the edge for SCum) and Stanley McClover (excellent DE for the Auburn Tigers). The result was that we did not have a dominant passrush in 2004 and 2005 outside of Bobby Carpenter from the Leo position. And if we strike out on Barksdale, Brent, Jeremiah, and Stills this year, I anticipate that it will hurt somewhere down the road. Let's land Anthony Davis, who would be a pretty good NG provided that he plays with motivation and keeps the weight down and Devon Stills, who would make a pretty good DT with his quickness. I'd be happy with those two.

 

[osugrad21]

i know this will probably get shot down but...

would we consider a 3-4 defense or a 3-3-5 or something like that...with all of our speed it would be kinda cool...really just an idea...i know we dont have the NG for the reasons stated above...

also i know this was mentioned in another thread but i dont really remember it...are there any college defenses that run anything other than 4-3

tOSU has run all of those...to an extent. That is the best thing about defense, a small shade here or a single personnel change can alter the label given to the set. For instance, zone blitz schemes out of the even front are in reality a form of the 3-4 and various Nickel personnel and schemes could be considered the 3-5. Today's defenses are not the oldschool shells which are dependent on lining up and firing off...as 808 pointed out above, there is movement everywhere from the DL loops/twists/slants/zone drops to the LBs blitzing/dropping to the DBs rolling in all variations of zone combos. Today's defenses thrive on showing one shape and shifting into something completely different to mess with the line calls, QB presnap reads, and WR reads. That is where the evolution of the Zone Blocking scheme came to fruition...IHO blocking was neutralized when defenses refused to sit still.

In other words, a defense may claim a "base" model...but in all reality, you are likely to see the entire array of fronts and coverages at one point or another.

 

[Taosman]

Grad's explanation is why we see the rules have evolved to favor the offense in college and Pro football.
No one wants a see 9 to 6 games every stinkin week!

 

[wadc45]

His job is to control the A gap and occupy two OL...therefore, he should be the heavier, sturdy type...your prototype huge mass player or the great balance wrestler-type (sound familiar?)

Exactly the reason why Tim Anderson excelled in that roll and why Denlinger and Larimore have drawn comparisons to him. His job was to keep people off the LBs.

I do understand that Maupin and Cotton hurt alot but I expected us to cover that up last year and this year with our recruiting classes.

Their problems had more to do with off-the-field issues (parking tickets, grades) than it did with injuries.

This might easily be one of the best threads ever...

Which is why you can "Rate this Thread"...get on it!

 

[crazybuckfan40]

Which is why you can "Rate this Thread"...get on it!

Happy now?