DE Vernon Gholston (Official Thread)

[SNIPER26]

It seems as if every DE comes out of college and is immediately thrusted into some sort of 3-4 role. Plenty of teams still use the 4-3 and I think Gholston fits well as a prototypical end in one of those systems. He is plenty big enough (260+), and regardless of weight his strength will prove him comparable to the biggest 4-3 DE's. Needless to say, if he lines up at end every down, I don't see the tackles man-handling him due to lack of size.

To be honest with you, I think he could play either a 3-4 or a 4-3. I just think he'd be unreal coming off the edge in a 3-4.

 

[Tonyank]

To be honest with you, I think he could play either a 3-4 or a 4-3. I just think he'd be unreal coming off the edge in a 3-4.

I agree!! Mario williams who ???? Gholston will get his sacks for sure in a 3-4. I think he would do well in a 4-3 though to, but a 3-4 its going to suck to be a QB

 

[CausticMick]

I disagree. With his size and speed he'd be a better fit at 3-4 OLB in my opinion.

By the way, it's SO nice for me to see him in the Alumni section and not current players :)

I'm sorry, I don't see it. The transition from DT to DE, DE to OLB, OLB to F/SS, or F/SS to corner just isn't a possibility most of the time. I think you've been smokin' the rock... :)

And we're not talking about Vrabel here- the average linebacker in the NFL is about 240. Big Vern is at 260 out of college (with no weight to shed). There's always the possiblity that another Kirkland will come around, but I don't see Vern as that type of lateral player (most of his pass rushes this year came in the form of straight ahead brute strength).

 

[joefoshow]

He is making the best decision for him if he thinks he can make it as a linebacker or d-line he should go for it. I respect him for that.

 

[Crashcup]

Shanahan loves his kind of versatility and they'll be picking very close to the right slot.

 

[MUBuck]

I'm sorry, I don't see it. The transition from DT to DE, DE to OLB, OLB to F/SS, or F/SS to corner just isn't a possibility most of the time. I think you've been smokin' the rock... :)

And we're not talking about Vrabel here- the average linebacker in the NFL is about 240. Big Vern is at 260 out of college (with no weight to shed). There's always the possiblity that another Kirkland will come around, but I don't see Vern as that type of lateral player (most of his pass rushes this year came in the form of straight ahead brute strength).

I agree with you about the difficulty of transition. However, if you remember back to Terrell Suggs when he was with Arizona State, he was about the same size as Vern (6-3, 250) and was incredibly quick off of the edge. He gives the Ravens a lot of flexibility because he can play the 4-3 DE or the 3-4 OLB. When they had Adalius Thomas last year, they could easily transition between the 4-3 and 3-4 because of their personnel. I'm not saying Vern will be the next Terrell Suggs, but I think a team would love to have the flexibility to play Vern where they think he can help best.

 

[NightmaresDad]

I disagree. With his size and speed he'd be a better fit at 3-4 OLB in my opinion.

By the way, it's SO nice for me to see him in the Alumni section and not current players :)

Don't get too comfortable...you've still got 2 more years of Lawrence Wilson, Cam Heyward, and Rob Rose to worry about!

 

[CausticMick]

He is making the best decision for him if he thinks he can make it as a linebacker or d-line he should go for it. I respect him for that.

Not his choice, man. This isn't the first day of pee wee football.

I agree with you about the difficulty of transition. However, if you remember back to Terrell Suggs when he was with Arizona State, he was about the same size as Vern (6-3, 250) and was incredibly quick off of the edge. He gives the Ravens a lot of flexibility because he can play the 4-3 DE or the 3-4 OLB. When they had Adalius Thomas last year, they could easily transition between the 4-3 and 3-4 because of their personnel. I'm not saying Vern will be the next Terrell Suggs, but I think a team would love to have the flexibility to play Vern where they think he can help best.

I certainly understand what is being said, I just don't think Vern is that type of player. Some players, like JL, tend to move very well across the field and can play in space. Other guys are space consumers and are more like a 747 (straight-ahead, one purpose) than a fighter jet (agility driven). It's not that there is NO lateral ability, it's just not as prevalent. It's different styles, that's why I don't think you'll see Vern at LB. I've been wrong before, and I'm no Mel Kiper, but I do know a good bit about the game and player evaluation. Either way, best of luck to Vern. My two cents is spent. :)

 

[BuckeyeLiger87]

It was his choice to go pro. The avg. size of LB in the NFL is at least 10lbs heavier than 240. Playing the LB positions he's projected he will be asked to do things much much different than JL and I think he can handle playing in space as it was part of his responsibilities at tOSU. his position in the NFL will be a lot like the leo except smarter coaches so he will blitz much more. Gholston is the protypical player for an OLB in a 3-4. Greg Ellis is 6'6'' 270 but he just must be one of those 747s as well. The LB position Gholston would play in a 3-4 is basically a weak side defensive end.

 

[CausticMick]

It is not his choice as to which position he'll play.

It was his choice to go pro. The avg. size of LB in the NFL is at least 10lbs heavier than 240. Playing the LB positions he's projected he will be asked to do things much much different than JL and I think he can handle playing in space as it was part of his responsibilities at tOSU. his position in the NFL will be a lot like the leo except smarter coaches so he will blitz much more. Gholston is the protypical player for an OLB in a 3-4. Greg Ellis is 6'6'' 270 but he just must be one of those 747s as well. The LB position Gholston would play in a 3-4 is basically a weak side defensive end.

Your views are skewed.

Please quit speaking about a subject without doing homework. In addition, please enlighten me as how he was used in space at Ohio State... news to me. He was flex out in a two? I missed that. Could've sworn I watched every game.

This is a weakside prototype:
Official site of the Pittsburgh Steelers - Roster

As I said, the average weight is about 240 pounds (242 to be exact):

The average linebacker in the NFL right now according to the Elias Sports Bureau weighs 242-lbs. Dick Butkus (1965-1973), one of the greatest linebackers in NFL history and considered an absolute monster in his day, was 6-3, 244-lbs., which would make him an average sized linebacker in today's NFL.

100% Injury Rate: The problem is not Reggie Bush, it's the NFL

According to the Elias Sports Bureau, the approximate average weight of an NFL linebacker is 242 pounds. At 225 pounds, Bowen relies on his speed, agility and technique.

Love trumps all - Gridiron

The average height, weight and speed of the outside linebackers at the combine was 6-11/4, 235 pounds and 4.63 seconds. The average of the inside linebackers was 6-2 3/8, 245 and 4.73.

Packers.com ? News ? Stories ? April 13, 2004: Gil Brandt's NFL Draft Analysis By Position: Linebackers

This is from 2004, and the trend is moving towards smaller LBs.

Now, in a 3-4 the LBs are probably slightly bigger, but please tell me why they're projecting him as a DE? You think he'll stop lifting and eating? Oh, I know, you lose weight as you get older...

And don't mince my words. The exception is never the rule. Shawne Merriman is a big LB too, but that doesn't mean it's across the boards.

 

[Buckeyeskickbuttocks]

I hear he'll play Defense.

 

[SNIPER26]

When I think of Gholston, I think of two guys..DeMarcus Ware and Shawne Merriman. Two former college DEs, now All-Pro LBs.

Ware: 6-4, 250, 4.6 speed
Merriman: 6-4, 272 4.6 speed

 

[SNIPER26]

I hear he'll play Defense.

WRONG! He'll make a QB very happy as a TE security blanket

 

[Buckeyeskickbuttocks]

WRONG! He'll make a QB very happy as a TE security blanket

Sorry? Did you say something? Rich Rod came by and is borrowing my shredder, I can't hear a damn thing. :p

 

[CausticMick]

When I think of Gholston, I think of two guys..DeMarcus Ware and Shawne Merriman. Two former college DEs, now All-Pro LBs.

Ware: 6-4, 250, 4.6 speed
Merriman: 6-4, 272 4.6 speed

We'll see, and of course we're all entitled to our views. I just think they're different types of players. Not better or worse, just different. I wouldn't lean too heavily on those 40 times though. The forty has long been argued as a bad way to measure a football player's speed. However, no one has a uniform measurement solution. :)

I hope he plays DE, though (most recent numbers I could find):

http://www.nflpa.org/pdfs/shared/20...y_Averages_&_Signing_Trends_November_2005.pdf

Quarterback: 5.15
Running back: 3.27
Offensive tackle: 3.17
Wide receiver: 2.97
Cornerback: 2.75
Defensive end: 2.54
Middle linebacker: 2.30
Defensive tackle: 2.06
Offensive guard: 1.94
Outside linebacker: 1.81
Tight end: 1.79
Center: 1.65
Free safety: 1.39
Strong safety: 1.27
Kicker: 1.23
Fullback: 0.84
Punter: 0.69