Columbus Blue Jackets (Official Thread)

[Mike80]

when he gets back (If he comes back) i think he will become an all around player like weve seen nash and umberger grow into. before the hitch days, nasher was just a scoring threat and only got about 13 minutes a game and really only saw powerplay time. Hitch really made him a complete player, and in my mind probably the best and most underrated player in the NHL. i really hope this happens for nikita as well.

You're kidding right?

Nash is elevating his game this year to be sure, but the best in the NHL? Are you crazy?

 

[Mike80]

I don't think he'll be using his body like Nash and Umberger do, but I hope he's a good all-around player.

Heck, I wouldn't really care too much if he were slightly below-average defensively, as long as he lives up to some of his potential. Kid is dripping with talent. It'd be great to have two uber-talented goal scorers on the team. I think it would really push this team up a notch.

That is what the CBJ are still missing a bit.

They finally have the playmakers to get the puck where they need it, but now they need a guy to compliment Nash in the goal scoring area.

 

[3074326]

You're kidding right?

Nash is elevating his game this year to be sure, but the best in the NHL? Are you crazy?

I wouldn't argue with the most underrated, though. His defensive game doesn't get the credit it deserves, and he's actually a much better playmaker than he gets credit for. Seems like people just think he's good at getting breakaways and scoring goals.

But best in the NHL? I'd put him top 10, maybe. Even then, it might be tough.

 

[jimotis4heisman]

I thought he was showing a lot of improvement. Just wasn't getting rewarded for it.

I think this is a good move for both parties, as long as he returns. Haven't read anything about it - but I'm assuming he's headed over on good terms.

you mean like the ducks game? he got used/abused by getzlaf, what 4 turnovers on that shift alone? i mean at this point you cant play him in the top six, hes not physical enough, hes doesnt play tough enough and doesnt compete. worse yet he violates the cardinal rule post turnover "SKATE"

hes been better at home were the last change has been used to the teams advantage. hes a walking disaster on the road. i mean its enough that you consciously have to hide russell on the road. hitchs 3rd line is plumbers no more, at this point its, when healthy, is a tough shut down line, the 4th line is a banging group that can be difficult to play against. sestito has played well in cuse, hes played a limited rule in columbus and relished it, similarly blunded has been difficult to play against. then you have the reality of murray getting closer to being back, a player essentially unwilling to go the american league. a player who has walked on the brink all year, a player who was getting a longer leash, who how shall i say it, quit on his guys. it should be interesting to watch this unfold over the next few years...

 

[jimotis4heisman]

You're kidding right?

Nash is elevating his game this year to be sure, but the best in the NHL? Are you crazy?

best, no. among the best, yes. however he maybe the best pk killing forward in hockey at this point. teams play not to give up the shorty when nash is on the ice... i have no idea where he ranks, i know hes a perennial all star, a sure fire team canada first liner, and a guy whos lead the league in scoring, who is what second in hockey now, and over the past what five years is fourth in goal scoring (or something like that).

That is what the CBJ are still missing a bit.

They finally have the playmakers to get the puck where they need it, but now they need a guy to compliment Nash in the goal scoring area.

agreed. however the reality is a lot is pressed at the feet of brass, jake, (mayorov, nikita) to develop into that.

at this point id say you still have a heavily overslotted team, yet its a team that when it plays within its system is capable of pretty good hockey and not a fun team to play against.

legit, nash is in a legit spot, phalsson, in his 3rd line center. pretty much everyone else is overslotted or developing into there rules. that being said its not about individuals, and certainly not in hockey, its about the some of the parts and creating a team that plays a heavy game and is dug in. if you play a checking game you arent going to and probably dont want the ubber great skilled guys who wont buy in and play the system...

I wouldn't argue with the most underrated, though. His defensive game doesn't get the credit it deserves, and he's actually a much better playmaker than he gets credit for. Seems like people just think he's good at getting breakaways and scoring goals.

But best in the NHL? I'd put him top 10, maybe. Even then, it might be tough.

not many folks would pass on nash. the side is do you want that elite dman/netminder/legit #1 pivot, or do you go for a franchise winger? thats the issue. with his size, speed, strength and skill hes tough, and tougher to play against.

 

[3074326]

you mean like the ducks game? he got used/abused by getzlaf, what 4 turnovers on that shift alone? i mean at this point you cant play him in the top six, hes not physical enough, hes doesnt play tough enough and doesnt compete. worse yet he violates the cardinal rule post turnover "SKATE"

hes been better at home were the last change has been used to the teams advantage. hes a walking disaster on the road. i mean its enough that you consciously have to hide russell on the road. hitchs 3rd line is plumbers no more, at this point its, when healthy, is a tough shut down line, the 4th line is a banging group that can be difficult to play against. sestito has played well in cuse, hes played a limited rule in columbus and relished it, similarly blunded has been difficult to play against. then you have the reality of murray getting closer to being back, a player essentially unwilling to go the american league. a player who has walked on the brink all year, a player who was getting a longer leash, who how shall i say it, quit on his guys. it should be interesting to watch this unfold over the next few years...

Not like the Ducks game. But what would you expect against someone like Ryan Getzlaf? I didn't get to see much of that game after the first period, but Getzlaf probably has three or four inches and about forty pounds on him. I'm not sure why he'd be playing against him in the first place, if Niki's weaknesses are strength and defense (and turnovers, but that doesn't have as much to do with Getzlaf as it does Niki).

The not getting rewarded comment wasn't meant to be a knock on Hitch. We've talked about this before - I really wanted to see Filatov getting more time, and it's frustrating that he's not because I don't think he's going to grow much without it. However, I don't blame Hitch for not hurting the team and keeping Filatov on the bench/in limited minutes. It's just frustrating.

Like I said, this is best for both parties if Nik comes back.

 

[jimotis4heisman]

Not like the Ducks game. But what would you expect against someone like Ryan Getzlaf? I didn't get to see much of that game after the first period, but Getzlaf probably has three or four inches and about forty pounds on him. I'm not sure why he'd be playing against him in the first place, if Niki's weaknesses are strength and defense (and turnovers, but that doesn't have as much to do with Getzlaf as it does Niki).

the kid is what 5-11 175ish pounds? who doesnt have 25, 50 pounds on him? i mean assuming you believe hes a full 175 pounds that is. hes small, hes not physical, you can say st louis, or pat kane, yet both those guys have a more physical body and more developed one than nikita. he looks, and is built like a 12 years old. not necessarily his fault, yet a reality. what his body is today may not be what it is in two years, he can and should develop more physically. that being said you wont mistake him for the boogieman. also hes not of the same style/game as a guy like calvert who is "cowboy" strong. you know the rangey guys who just for whatever reason play in a small, lean body that is absurdly physical.

you hit the point on the head. but you fail to realize even when you can control matchups (like at home with the last change) you cant control the game. getz comes over the boards, what do you do? have your team shot the puck over the glass to protect lil nikita from having to play against physical players? i mean its not rocket science. certainly in todays hockey game and in the more rugged western conference where every team has 6 or 8 highly physical forwards who can beat, hit, and compete on the puck and to get the puck back.

the generic point is that he couldnt be trusted, he was a greater liability than asset. he was more detrimental than beneficial. unreal stick skills, talent and that sweet little shot, sure. but a guy who floated, drifted, turned the puck over, didnt play strong on the puck, didnt play within the system will trump that every time. for all the talent the caps have, their is a reason they are a relatively easy out, guys like ovie, semin, green, etc are cute and fun to watch, yet when you play like that you leave yourself massively exposed. the tighter the game, the more obvious it is.

The not getting rewarded comment wasn't meant to be a knock on Hitch. We've talked about this before - I really wanted to see Filatov getting more time, and it's frustrating that he's not because I don't think he's going to grow much without it. However, I don't blame Hitch for not hurting the team and keeping Filatov on the bench/in limited minutes. It's just frustrating.

he was getting more time. granted hes a liability. you dont get more time. you earn more time. end of story. this isnt pee wee, this is the real deal. a business. you play to win the game. how is it frustrating?

hes played 8:36 a game in the 13 games hes played, 2g, 2 points and 8 pims.

i mean you can play the hitch has yanked his chain game, yet how much water does that hold? did you see hitchs comments on mason recently? much worse than the soft words hes used with the young russian. brass and jake are amongst his whipping boys, yet how do they respond? well last year jake drastically improved during the season and his toi did also. he ended up with 9/29/38 +11 after a slow and nearly treacherous start. brass has been yanked around himself, pushed up and down the lineup, called out for his play. how does he respond? usually by being at every optional skate, extra film time, etc.

i mean look at team toi for the forwards.

nash-20
vermette-20
umberger-19
phalsson-17.35
juice-17
jake-15.27
chimmer-14.43
brass-14.28
torres 13
dorsett-11.44
mack-9.47
filatov-8.36
murray-8.25
blunden-7.39
boll-5.19
sestito-4.48

i mean in reality where do you place his play? the first three guys play all 3 aspects, 5v5 pp pk. phalsson is on your shut down line (which is really hitchs #2 in toi typically) and on the first pk unit, then juice, your other first line winger. then jake, who plays pp and second line winger, then chimmer who is on that shut down line at the current time, brass your center,

then torres, brass thats the about 14 minute group. brass plays pp. ok. then go down to dorsett almost 12 minutes, but hes on your shutdown line.


after you get through that, their isnt much time left. and he sure in the heck doesnt fit in with a line with blunden, boll (or murray). guys who want to get pucks deep, cycle and be physical. since hes not willing to play on the wall. (and if he was willing harldy capable of such play). so you have a guy who cant play the top six winger spots, since he cant be matched up against guys like getz, or shutdown dmen, a guy who sure the hell doesnt fit in a shutdown line. and a guy not willing to play the price on the boards? what do you do? juggle your lines and rotate him in for 8.36 a game. what the hell else are you supposed to do? and thats against team who arent overly physical, see flames, etc or teams who dont compete/possess the puck with the likes of the wings or cant push the ice like the blackhawks.

so the question is what the hell are you left with? i mean that in all sincerity? how do you hide a guy you dont have a spot for? a guy who wont fight for the puck, or be strong on the puck (this means he cant play on the power play) one who cant/wont play a 4th line role and one who doesnt play a shutdown game and one who cant be matched up against shut down lines or defensive pairings(ie cant play a top six role)? i guess you could then play him on the pk? thats a joke, we all know that. then youre left juggling, and milking time from random places. you steal from the 3rd line to fill out your 4th line, your top six to play that 3rd line wing then you insert him from time to time and hope that the other coach is oblivious to your little russian you sent over the wall and that he ignores it and he doesnt send out someone/anybody who can play physical. or you just play your game and figure its to rough/tumble for him.

Like I said, this is best for both parties if Nik comes back.
he never should have left. put bluntly, he quit on his team. he quit on the org.

maybe he should of spent the year in cuse, or last year sent to jrs. who knows. all that being said, and under the bridge. he quit on his team. period.


ask stefan legein what it takes to earn the respect back. (if you can, he couldnt, hes gone).

bold.

 

[Fungo Squiggly]

So, how do you see this going down, jim?

I know jack about the KHL (only slightly less than I what I know about the nhl, right? ) but I'm assuming its a less-physical game than what we see here, so that would be a much better fit for what he brings to the table skill-wise. Seeing that he's going to be the homegrown kid returning home, will they coddle him and cut him slack or will they ride him when he gets too cute? Is he going to go over there and get his ass chewed for the same things Hitch is riding him for or will they just let him go out there and do his own thing?

 

[ysubuck]

There isn't any "deal" with the KHL as far as loaning them NHL players is there? It's my understanding that once those players get over there it can be pretty tough to get them back.

He signed a 3 year deal with his Russian team so I'm not sure how that translates into him getting back to the US for training camp next summer.

 

[jimotis4heisman]

So, how do you see this going down, jim?

I know jack about the KHL (only slightly less than I what I know about the nhl, right? ) but I'm assuming its a less-physical game than what we see here, so that would be a much better fit for what he brings to the table skill-wise. Seeing that he's going to be the homegrown kid returning home, will they coddle him and cut him slack or will they ride him when he gets too cute? Is he going to go over there and get his ass chewed for the same things Hitch is riding him for or will they just let him go out there and do his own thing?

the khl plays its game on the euro ice. (not the olympic ice since that will be played on nhl ice this year :highfive:.

less physical game-yes.
less board battles-yes.
better fit-?
generally speaking its more of your euro pansie skill league, little/no hitting, etc.

chew his ass like hitch? how many coaches in north america (all sports combined) chew ass like hitch? that being said some guys love hitch. if you dont want to bring it, if you dont want to play hard, if you dont want do the little things right, if you dont want every player to have the same level of expectations, then hitch isnt for you. (granted i might say the better player you are the higher the expectations). [how many times have you heard your best players have to be your best players from hitchs mouth?]. so well put it this way, guys like aj hawk, "hitch guy" someone like allen iverson, practice? you mean practice? not a hitch guy.

hes going to play for cska moscow (the red army team). he played for their jr team (and a few games for their sr league team) before he was drafted. hell make about 1m, compared to 875k in columbus (plus bonuses which i believe could have driven the deal to 2.2m or his 65kish for time in the cuse).

the league, well the khl can be ugly, it can involve a ton of traveling (i think it spans 7 time zones) and its barely financially solvent. toss in about half the teams suck rocks. granted their are some good teams.

hes small and he plays tentative, two things he may not have to overcome in the khl.

personally i had assumed all along he was going to be loaned out for the world jrs and that would chew up 6 weeks or so of the season. that maybe that could set a spark in the kid.

then again by all appearance at the first sign of adversity, or 19 games of it, he bolts. if you think hitch is going to promise ice time? ask commie about earning his ice time, being scratched for "conditioning" isnt exactly a glaring seal of approval even on a guy with a ncaa title, a cup and a shut down role.

what happens, i dont know. i was convinced zherdev was gone to the khl. i said that, i believed that. here i dont know. their is more info floating around, iim not going there at this point. i will say that from a casual observer it appears often times better to allow a separation on mutual terms rather than one person forcing their way out...


long story short bk, im not sure.

 

[jimotis4heisman]

There isn't any "deal" with the KHL as far as loaning them NHL players is there? It's my understanding that once those players get over there it can be pretty tough to get them back.

He signed a 3 year deal with his Russian team so I'm not sure how that translates into him getting back to the US for training camp next summer.

no transfer correct. granted he cant play for anyone except columbus (in the nhl) as long as they own his rights.

he could have bolted on his own terms, ie svitov or radulov, or it could have gone down like this. granted it is cska moscow, who how shall i put this, is well know, pretty well respected and has a step and storied tradition. not saying tomfoolery is out of the question, i think most would rather have him there than say barys etc

 

[Fungo Squiggly]

the khl plays its game on the euro ice. (not the olympic ice since that will be played on nhl ice this year :highfive:.

less physical game-yes.
less board battles-yes.
better fit-?
generally speaking its more of your euro pansie skill league, little/no hitting, etc.

So his flaws that are so apparent in the NHL game may not be as visible and he might be able to get by without working on them. That's part of what concerns me about this move. It may make him a "better" player, but not necessarily better in a way that would help him get ice time under Hitch.

chew his ass like hitch? how many coaches in north america (all sports combined) chew ass like hitch? that being said some guys love hitch. if you dont want to bring it, if you dont want to play hard, if you dont want do the little things right, if you dont want every player to have the same level of expectations, then hitch isnt for you. (granted i might say the better player you are the higher the expectations). [how many times have you heard your best players have to be your best players from hitchs mouth?]. so well put it this way, guys like aj hawk, "hitch guy" someone like allen iverson, practice? you mean practice? not a hitch guy.

Heh. I didn't figure anyone would chew him out as much as Hitch. Just wondering if the coach would get on him at all for the careless casual play or if they'd let him get away with it.

the league, well the khl can be ugly, it can involve a ton of traveling (i think it spans 7 time zones) and its barely financially solvent.

Sounds like fun

hes small and he plays tentative, two things he may not have to overcome in the khl.

Not good.

then again by all appearance at the first sign of adversity, or 19 games of it, he bolts. if you think hitch is going to promise ice time? ask commie about earning his ice time, being scratched for "conditioning" isnt exactly a glaring seal of approval even on a guy with a ncaa title, a cup and a shut down role.

No argument here. Hitch's job is to win games. If a guy needs to be benched, it's nice to know that he will be. At least there doesn't seem (emphasis on seem) to be a behind-the scenes GM v. coach knockdown dragout going down with the GM demanding a guy gets icetime.


FWIW, Sergei Nemchinov, the current head coach for CSKA, was apparently known as a very good 2-way player in the NHL when he was in the nhl. Hopefully he expects the same out of his players.

 

[jimotis4heisman]

So his flaws that are so apparent in the NHL game may not be as visible and he might be able to get by without working on them. That's part of what concerns me about this move. It may make him a "better" player, but not necessarily better in a way that would help him get ice time under Hitch.

agreed. but the addition of 20lbs, to say the 190 or so might...

lets put this in a realistic view.
rick nash, 18 years old...

what, a few years later...

lets be honest this...

looks more like this..

than a hockey player...

Heh. I didn't figure anyone would chew him out as much as Hitch. Just wondering if the coach would get on him at all for the careless casual play or if they'd let him get away with it.

some of both, many/most coaches allow more than hitch, even in the nhl.

Sounds like fun



Not good.



No argument here. Hitch's job is to win games. If a guy needs to be benched, it's nice to know that he will be. At least there doesn't seem (emphasis on seem) to be a behind-the scenes GM v. coach knockdown dragout going down with the GM demanding a guy gets icetime.

hitch doesnt want to be a gm. then again hitch wants a bunch of skilled rugged bastards. guys who hit, forechekc, backcheck and score.

FWIW, Sergei Nemchinov, the current head coach for CSKA, was apparently known as a very good 2-way player in the NHL when he was in the nhl. Hopefully he expects the same out of his players.
two way player is not the same as the system implemented.

you have ice in the nhl that is 200x84 vs 210x98 and the goal is out further.

its not really the same, maybe more ice time is better, hard to say. but i tend to think digging in and playing like your hair is on fire, skating your ass off, doing the little things, hitting the weights, etc may have been the better alternative. may have.

...

 

[NUTS4theBUCKS28]

...

is that amanda bynes? :groove3:

 

[3074326]

Nash now tied for second in goals.

PP goal.