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College Playoff

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Can someone explain the hate for TCU and the teams it plays when the Mountain West has the best win percentage of any conference in football for bowl games?

Despite being nobody, they seem to have a penchant for beating teams in bowl games. They have more wins in bowls since 2003 than the Big Ten does. That's gotta hurt, but its the sad, honest truth.
 
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I don't hate TCU. At least they're not a Johnny Come Lately program who wants a piece of pie they had no part in baking.

I don't see the point in outlining the differences between quality of bowl opponent, nor outlining how in the era of limited schollies it's a bit easier for a mid major to get up for one game than it is to win enough games against quality competition to get to the bowl game in the first instance.
 
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Mrstickball;1852015; said:
Can someone explain the hate for TCU and the teams it plays when the Mountain West has the best win percentage of any conference in football for bowl games?

Despite being nobody, they seem to have a penchant for beating teams in bowl games. They have more wins in bowls since 2003 than the Big Ten does. That's gotta hurt, but its the sad, honest truth.
Click to expand...

I'm neither hot nor cold when it comes to TCU. I give them Kudos for deciding to come to a BCS AQ conference.

As far as bowl game records, it's a pretty fallacious argument. Do you realize who the MWC normally plays in their bowl games?
 
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Buckeyeskickbuttocks;1852019; said:
I don't hate TCU. At least they're not a Johnny Come Lately program who wants a piece of pie they had no part in baking.

I don't see the point in outlining the differences between quality of bowl opponent, nor outlining how in the era of limited schollies it's a bit easier for a mid major to get up for one game than it is to win enough games against quality competition to get to the bowl game in the first instance.
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That's fine. Then lets have a playoff to see if these mid-majors are really a flash in the pan for 1 game, or can get up for 2 or 3 games against quality opponents.
 
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Buckeyeskickbuttocks;1852019; said:
I don't hate TCU. At least they're not a Johnny Come Lately program who wants a piece of pie they had no part in baking.

I don't see the point in outlining the differences between quality of bowl opponent, nor outlining how in the era of limited schollies it's a bit easier for a mid major to get up for one game than it is to win enough games against quality competition to get to the bowl game in the first instance.
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muffler dragon;1852030; said:
I'm neither hot nor cold when it comes to TCU. I give them Kudos for deciding to come to a BCS AQ conference.

As far as bowl game records, it's a pretty fallacious argument. Do you realize who the MWC normally plays in their bowl games?
Click to expand...

+2

I don't think anyone here actively hates TCU. ORD actively hates Boise St (just one among his long list) but to the best of my knowledge for most folks around these parts TCU isn't important enough on the national stage to merit much in the way of overwhelming emotion one way or the other.

That doesn't stop buying billboards in a city more than a thousand miles away to prove a 'point' to a team that has absolutely nothing to do with you or our conference from being the very definition of bush league.
 
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muffler dragon;1852030; said:
I'm neither hot nor cold when it comes to TCU. I give them Kudos for deciding to come to a BCS AQ conference.

As far as bowl game records, it's a pretty fallacious argument. Do you realize who the MWC normally plays in their bowl games?
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Yes. Do you realize who every other non-AQ play and lose against? If you look at the WAC, Sun Belt, C-USA, and MAC, they all play pitifully against whomever they play (I think the WAC is the only one near .500)....Yet the MWC is head and shoulders above them in wins and losses.

A lot of the MWC wins have come against AQ schools in the past 7 years:

Wins against BCS conferences
Utah v. Pittsburgh in the 2004-5 Fiesta Bowl
Wyoming v. UCLA in the 2004-5 Las Vegas Bowl
Utah v. Georgia Tech in the 2005-6 Emerald Bowl
TCU v. Iowa State in the 2005-6 Houston Bowl
BYU v. Oregon in 2006-7 Las Vegas Bowl
BYU v. UCLA in 2007-8 Las Vegas Bowl
Utah v. Alabama in 2008-9 Sugar Bowl
BYU v. Oregon State in 2009-10 Las Vegas Bowl
Utah v. California in 2009-10 Poinsettia Bowl
Air Force v. Georgia Tech in 2010-11 Independence Bowl
TCU v. Wisconsin in 2010-11 Rose Bowl


Losses against BCS conferences
California v. BYU in 2005 Las Vegas Bowl
Oregon State v. New Mexico in 2003-4 Las Vegas Bowl
Boston College v. Colorado State in 2003-4 San Fransisco Bowl
California v. Air Force in 2007-8 Armed Forces Bowl
Arizona v. BYU in 2008-9 Las Vegas Bowl

I count a 11-5 record against AQ conference teams, and 2-0 in BCS games. That's pretty good, no? I understand a bit of the wins have come when its #2 or #1 MWC vs. #4 or #5 PAC-10 and so on, but with such a record, its proof that the MWC needs either AQ status, or re-aligned bowls to face tougher opponents.
 
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Mrstickball;1852053; said:
Yes. Do you realize who every other non-AQ play and lose against? If you look at the WAC, Sun Belt, C-USA, and MAC, they all play pitifully against whomever they play (I think the WAC is the only one near .500)....Yet the MWC is head and shoulders above them in wins and losses.

A lot of the MWC wins have come against AQ schools in the past 7 years:

Wins against BCS conferences
Utah v. Pittsburgh in the 2004-5 Fiesta Bowl
Wyoming v. UCLA in the 2004-5 Las Vegas Bowl
Utah v. Georgia Tech in the 2005-6 Emerald Bowl
TCU v. Iowa State in the 2005-6 Houston Bowl
BYU v. Oregon in 2006-7 Las Vegas Bowl
BYU v. UCLA in 2007-8 Las Vegas Bowl
Utah v. Alabama in 2008-9 Sugar Bowl
BYU v. Oregon State in 2009-10 Las Vegas Bowl
Utah v. California in 2009-10 Poinsettia Bowl
Air Force v. Georgia Tech in 2010-11 Independence Bowl
TCU v. Wisconsin in 2010-11 Rose Bowl


Losses against BCS conferences
California v. BYU in 2005 Las Vegas Bowl
Oregon State v. New Mexico in 2003-4 Las Vegas Bowl
Boston College v. Colorado State in 2003-4 San Fransisco Bowl
California v. Air Force in 2007-8 Armed Forces Bowl
Arizona v. BYU in 2008-9 Las Vegas Bowl

I count a 11-5 record against AQ conference teams, and 2-0 in BCS games. That's pretty good, no? I understand a bit of the wins have come when its #2 or #1 MWC vs. #4 or #5 PAC-10 and so on, but with such a record, its proof that the MWC needs either AQ status, or re-aligned bowls to face tougher opponents.
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Great.

Now include regular season games and see how wonderful they perform.
 
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Mrstickball;1852055; said:
So then what do you want? You complain that they can get up and beat teams like Alabama and Wisconsin in BCS games, because its just 1 game a year, then you don't want the solution to fix it.

What do you want then?
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I'm not complaining. I'm not interested in playoffs. My reasons are well documented on this thread and others and I'm not going to rehash it now.

Your comment " then you don't want the solution to fix it." assumes I think the BCS is broken, which I don't. It does what it's supposed to do - determines who among otherwise equal teams (ie record) should get to play for the title. I'm perfectly fine with that. Frankly, I'd prefer the old system - pre- Bowl Alliance.
 
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Mrstickball;1852053; said:
Yes. Do you realize who every other non-AQ play and lose against? If you look at the WAC, Sun Belt, C-USA, and MAC, they all play pitifully against whomever they play (I think the WAC is the only one near .500)....Yet the MWC is head and shoulders above them in wins and losses.

A lot of the MWC wins have come against AQ schools in the past 7 years:

Wins against BCS conferences
Utah v. Pittsburgh in the 2004-5 Fiesta Bowl
Wyoming v. UCLA in the 2004-5 Las Vegas Bowl
Utah v. Georgia Tech in the 2005-6 Emerald Bowl
TCU v. Iowa State in the 2005-6 Houston Bowl
BYU v. Oregon in 2006-7 Las Vegas Bowl
BYU v. UCLA in 2007-8 Las Vegas Bowl
Utah v. Alabama in 2008-9 Sugar Bowl
BYU v. Oregon State in 2009-10 Las Vegas Bowl
Utah v. California in 2009-10 Poinsettia Bowl
Air Force v. Georgia Tech in 2010-11 Independence Bowl
TCU v. Wisconsin in 2010-11 Rose Bowl


Losses against BCS conferences
California v. BYU in 2005 Las Vegas Bowl
Oregon State v. New Mexico in 2003-4 Las Vegas Bowl
Boston College v. Colorado State in 2003-4 San Fransisco Bowl
California v. Air Force in 2007-8 Armed Forces Bowl
Arizona v. BYU in 2008-9 Las Vegas Bowl

I count a 11-5 record against AQ conference teams, and 2-0 in BCS games. That's pretty good, no? I understand a bit of the wins have come when its #2 or #1 MWC vs. #4 or #5 PAC-10 and so on, but with such a record, its proof that the MWC needs either AQ status, or re-aligned bowls to face tougher opponents.
Click to expand...

Let's look at the big picture of bowl games since 1999 when the MWC was formed:

Air Force (CO) (3-3)

W 12-31-2000 37 Fresno St. (CA) 34 Silicon Valley Classic
L 12-31-2002 13 Virginia Tech 20 San Francisco Bowl
L 12-31-2007 36 California 42 Armed Forces Bowl
L 12-31-2008 28 Houston (TX) 34 Armed Forces Bowl
W 12-31-2009 47 Houston (TX) 20 Armed Forces Bowl
W 12-27-2010 14 Georgia Tech 7 Independence Bowl

Brigham Young (UT) (4-4)

L 12-27-1999 3 Marshall (WV) 21 Motor City Bowl
L 12-31-2001 10 Louisville (KY) 28 Liberty Bowl
L 12-22-2005 28 California 35 Las Vegas Bowl
W 12-21-2006 38 Oregon 8 Las Vegas Bowl
W 12-22-2007 17 UCLA 16 Las Vegas Bowl
L 12-20-2008 21 Arizona 31 Las Vegas Bowl
W 12-22-2009 44 Oregon St 20 Las Vegas Bowl
W 12-18-2010 52 Texas-El Paso 24 New Mexico Bowl

Colorado St. (3-4)

L 12-31-1999 17 Southern Mississippi 23 Liberty Bowl
W 12-29-2000 22 Louisville (KY) 17 Liberty Bowl
W 12-18-2001 45 North Texas 20 New Orleans Bowl
L 12-31-2002 3 Texas Christian 17 Liberty Bowl
L 12-31-2003 21 Boston College (MA) 35 San Francisco Bowl
L 12-22-2005 30 Navy (MD) 51 Poinsettia Bowl
W 12-20-2008 40 Fresno St. (CA) 35 New Mexico Bowl

Nevada-Las Vegas

New Mexico (1-4)

L 12-25-2002 13 UCLA 27 Las Vegas Bowl
L 12-24-2003 14 Oregon St 55 Las Vegas Bowl
L 12-30-2004 19 Navy (MD) 34 Emerald Bowl
L 12-23-2006 12 San Jose St. (CA) 20 New Mexico Bowl
W 12-22-2007 23 Nevada 0 New Mexico Bowl

San Diego St. (CA) (1-0)

W 12-23-2010 35 Navy (MD) 14 Poinsettia Bowl



Texas Christian (7-4)

W 12-22-1999 28 East Carolina (NC) 14 Mobile Alabama Bowl
L 12-20-2000 21 Southern Mississippi 28 Mobile Alabama Bowl
L 12-28-2001 9 Texas A&M 28 Galleryfurniture.com Bowl
W 12-31-2002 17 Colorado St 3 Liberty Bowl
L 12-23-2003 31 Boise St. (ID) 34 Fort Worth Bowl
W 12-31-2005 27 Iowa St 24 Houston Bowl
W 12-19-2006 37 Northern Illinois 7 Poinsettia Bowl
W 12-28-2007 20 Houston (TX) 13 Texas Bowl
W 12-23-2008 17 Boise St. (ID) 16 Poinsettia Bowl
L 01-04-2010 10 Boise St. (ID) 17 Fiesta Bowl
W 01-01-2011 21 Wisconsin 19 Rose Bowl

Utah (9-1)

W 12-18-1999 17 Fresno St. (CA) 16 Las Vegas Bowl
W 12-25-2001 10 Southern California 6 Las Vegas Bowl
W 12-31-2003 17 Southern Mississippi 0 Liberty Bowl
W 01-01-2005 35 Pittsburgh (PA) 7 Fiesta Bowl
W 12-29-2005 38 Georgia Tech 10 Emerald Bowl
W 12-23-2006 25 Tulsa (OK) 13 Armed Forces Bowl
W 12-20-2007 35 Navy (MD) 32 Poinsettia Bowl
W 01-02-2009 31 Alabama 17 Sugar Bowl
W 12-23-2009 37 California 27 Poinsettia Bowl
L 12-22-2010 3 Boise St. (ID) 26 Las Vegas Bowl

Wyoming (2-0)

W 12-23-2004 24 UCLA 21 Las Vegas Bowl
W 12-19-2009 35 Fresno St. (CA) 28 New Mexico Bowl

That's 30-20. (12-8 against AQ*)

I counted Louisville as CUSA considering the timing.

Furthermore, when comparing the MWC against the BCS conferences, this is what you get all time:

ACC 36-52
Big 12 280-553
Big East 28-17
Big Ten 32-70
Pac Ten 191-402
SEC 44-110

All stats from: http://cfbdatawarehouse.com/

I'm just not sure what there is to applaud.
 
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Mrstickball;1852053; said:
I count a 11-5 record against AQ conference teams, and 2-0 in BCS games. That's pretty good, no? I understand a bit of the wins have come when its #2 or #1 MWC vs. #4 or #5 PAC-10 and so on, but with such a record, its proof that the MWC needs either AQ status, or re-aligned bowls to face tougher opponents.
Click to expand...

The problem is that the MWC responsible for that record no longer exists. BYU, Utah and TCU are history. In two years, the MWC will essentially be the current dregs of the conference and the upper half of the WAC.
 
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FWIW, here's the MWC v. BCS AQ conferences 1999-2009.

http://football.stassen.com/records/confres.html

Air Force 6-6
BYU 14-16
Colorado State 7-14
UNLV 6-14
New Mexico 5-16
San Diego State 1-23
TCU 14-7
Utah 19-11
Wyoming 5-15

77-122 overall. 38% Just a little overall their all-time percentage of 33%.

Edit: Rhetorical question: does anyone else think that TCU and Utah going 14-7 or 19-11 in BCS AQ conferences would be impressive? That's essentially what we'll get to see starting next year. Maybe they'll be better than that.
 
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As to ORDs point, as it regards Utah and TCU - I have no problem with them being in AQ conferences and I applaud them for making moves which put them "at the table" If they win their leagues, or earn an at large, I won't be saying anything negative about them. They've done what they can to play the game. Boysee, however, has not.
 
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