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Cleveland Indians (official 2012 season)

There have been a lot of guys who have played professional sports in Cleveland and while they might not have liked it, I cannot remember one guy who called the Cleveland fans out like Perez. You would think that he is Cy Young or something. Just shut up and play baseball.
 
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On Perez, I can see both sides of this one. On the negativity, I can see his side fully, though it would mean more coming from someone whose feelings aren't hurt by being booed. Go to NY or Phily, where there are certainly a lot more fans, throw bad a few times, and see what it's like there, Chris. That said, this is a first place team, and people should be enjoyig that. Hell, I am guilty on the board too, focusing on Krotchrot not hitting an 8th graders weight and Masterson sucking and Ubado the wonder headcase and all of that. But I still tune in every night, and I still support the team. More people should enjoy what the team is doing. Yes, the ownership sucks, the Dolans suck, whatever, but the guys that are here are finding ways to win, and for that, people should be supportive.

All that said, there's a little fuck a millionaire criticizing this area too. There are a hell of a lot of families here that would love what game to take their kids to to be the most important decision they have this month. Unfortunately things like finding a job, or finding a second job, or paying the mortgage on their home that is worth 1/3 of what it was, or putting food on the table, are the toughest decisions people are making here. There are also a disproportional amount of shift and healthcare workers here, which means a lot of 7-7 workers, or nightshift workers. Those people have a very hard time making 7 PM games during the week, especially if they have kids. Plus school is still in session, so kids aren't off yet. So what you get is what is happening...low attendance during the week, higher attendance during weekend series. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out. Perez somewhat tacitly admitted that this morning, but only in the context of making himself look better ("I'm not stupid..."). So there are still a lot of working class folks here that spend their hard earned money to go to the park. It's not as many as any one of us would like, but to shit on those people, just because your feelings are hurt by being booed, is pretty stupid. It's not his fault Joe Borowski and Jose Mesa were closers here, but unfortunately history plays into perception. It's not fair, but it is what it is. BLow a few saves in NY and see what kind of reception you get.

As for 455, I am also tired of hearing it, but then people on both sides need to stop whining about it. It is relevant only as a source of pride in a historical context, much like a championship from years ago is. It was a cool streak, and people can be proud of it in a blue collar town. But that's it. It has nothing to do with the current time. So people saying it will happen again if ownership ponies up...it won't. And people saying it's the fans fault that people won't come here because attendence used to be good and now it isn't...it isn't. There are a lot of reasons that attendance is down, and not only in Cleveland...the economy, the steriod era, the obsession with football, the attention span of kids these days who think baseball is long and boring...455 is gone for good.

As for football, it is totally apples to oranges. Yes, the Browns still sell out (well, supposedly, though I see plenty of empty seats on TV quite a few times)...but that's for all of 8 games. 8, and mostly on Sundays. The Indians play 81. And a majority of those are during the week. It just isn't the same thing. It's not even close.
 
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LitlBuck;2157181; said:
There have been a lot of guys who have played professional sports in Cleveland and while they might not have liked it, I cannot remember one guy who called the Cleveland fans out like Perez. You would think that he is Cy Young or something. Just shut up and play baseball.

Which is why for me it would mean more if it came from a guy like Asdrubal. Perez just sounds like a crybaby with a thin skin who doesn't like getting booed...no matter how valid his points actually are.
 
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So much from the weekend...

ysubuck;2156922; said:
Cleveland sports fans have earned the right to do whatever they fucking want IMO.

They are among the most loyal fans in all of sports and what are they rewarded with? Heartbreak on the field and apathy in the owners box. Many of these same fans are Browns fans and Cavs fans so their angst is completely understandable to me (a Cleveland sports fan since birth).

They have been burned too many times so they figure "why show up when all they are going to do is let me down in the end?"

Some of this also comes from the football fans mentality. I have been as guilty as the next guy of saying "oh this team is going to suck" after game two of a 162 game season. I'm honestly surprised at how negative this thread continues to be with where the Tribe is sitting after 40 games. I'm surprised, but I get it.

The truth is that this team is playing well, they are in first place and they deserve to be supported. I completely understand, however, why fans are hesitant to spend their hard earned money on a Cleveland sports team.

Perez certainly didn't do anything to endear himself to the fans with that outburst. He put a ton of pressure on himself with those statements. He better have 1-2-3 innings from here on out now that he shot his fat mouth off.

BULLSHIT!!! Cleveland fans are NOT the most loyal. Wait... I should say this, Cleveland fans are the MOST LOYAL Browns fans in the world. For the Cavs and the Indians they are HORRIBLE!!!

Cleveland is a football city bar none. It has NO IDEA how to be fans of other sports. (I am talking general as there are always pockets of true fans of those sports that 'get it') It takes the football fan mentality to the other sports and it just doesn't work.


OH10;2156950; said:
We've had good attendance the last 2 days and will have good attendance today. You don't shit on your customers just when they are starting to come around.

Good attendance??? It still was horrible. We were 10,000 below the average of all of major league baseball from this past weekend. Sunday's attendance was the worst in the majors. Saturday was the 3rd worst with Tampa Bay & Kansas City being worst (they drew 27k to our 29k, but they still outdrew us on Sunday)

This past weekend we should have been in the mid 30k easy and we couldn't even break 30k. That is just sad... and that was basically before Chris Perez's comments. So they still aren't coming around.



Magua;2156983; said:
I fully understand where Perez is coming from and what he's saying and I agree with him completely. Maybe the only thing I don't like about it is that there are SOME fans (few maybe) that have always supported the team and shown up at the park even when they aren't playing well. I've been down to the park 4 times now this year so he probably shouldn't alienate everyone. However, he's speaking the truth. The fans in Cleveland when it comes to the Indians are flat out embarrassing. We'll sell out every home game for the Browns even though most of the organization doesn't seem to give two shits about putting a quality team on the field. But, the Indians have remained competitive through some time money spending times and the players actually come out and play hard nightly. Fans also need to stop fucking bringing up "455" because that was a long time ago and it's nothing to brag about when we're putting out the lowest attendance in baseball now days - with a team in 1st place no less. To me, 455 just says bandwagon fans.

+1000000000000000000

Smooth Olaf;2157033; said:
To me, 455 just says we had a good owner who actually put money into the team.

Jacobs didn't put money into the team, he took money out every year! He mandated a $3-$5 million profit every season. Dolan's first few seasons he spent more than they made, then the fans stopped comming. The fans jumped off the bandwagon so quick because the Browns were back (and the Indians hit a down year or two) that Dolan lost TONS and he probably is still trying to recover those losses today.

tsteele316;2157036; said:
it says to me that you fail to grasp the economic scenario of the time, the lack of a football team, and the gross differential in baseball payrolls and how they've escalated in the last 10 years.

DING DING DING... we have a winner.

I can bet money if the Browns were around during that run in the mid 90s we don't hit 455. The town would still have Indians fever since they would have been winning. But this town is just not a baseball town. Simple as that.
 
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Bucklion;2157200; said:
Which is why for me it would mean more if it came from a guy like Asdrubal. Perez just sounds like a crybaby with a thin skin who doesn't like getting booed...no matter how valid his points actually are.

Closers are just a different breed, there is a reason they call him Pure Rage, he is a VERY emotional player.

I think people want to call him a crybaby because what he said so cuts to the core of the fan. He is calling us out, he is questioning our fandom. The problem is, like you said, he is true.

Maybe he thinks we just need to wake up call. I listened to his Sunday morning interview and he kinda hinted that. He didn't back down from any of his comments, but he said where he was comming from. He said he saw the Cleveland fans in the mid 90s and is wondering where they went.
 
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perez doesnt realize how intelligent cleveland sports fans actually are and how we can see into the future...we already know that we will be in 3rd place by the all star break, and 4th place to finish out the season in the division...i wish someone in the media would of told him that....sorry chris, the indians are in 1st place, FOR NOW...no one is going to spend their money to watch a 4th place team...duh
 
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Piney;2157407; said:
Closers are just a different breed, there is a reason they call him Pure Rage, he is a VERY emotional player.

I think people want to call him a crybaby because what he said so cuts to the core of the fan. He is calling us out, he is questioning our fandom. The problem is, like you said, he is true.

Maybe he thinks we just need to wake up call. I listened to his Sunday morning interview and he kinda hinted that. He didn't back down from any of his comments, but he said where he was comming from. He said he saw the Cleveland fans in the mid 90s and is wondering where they went.

Again, I split the difference here. I can see where he's coming from...and I also still think he's a crybaby. Waahh, people in Cleveland are booing, waahh. As I said before, he could go somewhere where there are a shitload more fans and there is a shitload more pressure...he wouldn't last 5 seconds in any of those places, given this attitude. As for that last statement, that sort of means he's a victim of the "455" thing too, right? I mean, he said he gets it...but apparently he doesn't. Like a lot of the fans. But if hating Cleveland and Cleveland fans and lilac bushes and Twinkies and whatever else makes him pitch better, then whatever...just seems like sour grapes to me...even if he is right, at least in some ways.
 
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y0yoyoin;2157412; said:
perez doesnt realize how intelligent cleveland sports fans actually are and how we can see into the future...we already know that we will be in 3rd place by the all star break, and 4th place to finish out the season in the division...i wish someone in the media would of told him that....sorry chris, the indians are in 1st place, FOR NOW...no one is going to spend their money to watch a 4th place team...duh

Thanks for proving Chris Perez right. You just symbolized everything he is currently bitching about in one paragraph.

For those of you calling him a "crybaby" - I don't know if I would go that far. He cares at least - which is WAY more than you can say about most professional athletes. He's proud of what the team has been doing and wants the city to recognize it. I can understand the discouragement when you turn on 92.3 and they talk about the Browns more in their offseason of poop while the Indians sit in 1st place.

Not to mention, Perez has been giving out 6 season tickets for every single home game this year, and has even given them away on Twitter for correct answers to his trivia questions. How many players do you think do that? Not many I would bet...

That's 486 season tickets for baseball games. Let's say the tickets are 50 bucks a piece; That's just under $25,000 in tickets he's giving away this season. I think he has earned the right to speak his mind.
 
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Magua;2157493; said:
Thanks for proving Chris Perez right. You just symbolized everything he is currently bitching about in one paragraph.

For those of you calling him a "crybaby" - I don't know if I would go that far. He cares at least - which is WAY more than you can say about most professional athletes. He's proud of what the team has been doing and wants the city to recognize it. I can understand the discouragement when you turn on 92.3 and they talk about the Browns more in their offseason of poop while the Indians sit in 1st place.

Not to mention, Perez has been giving out 6 season tickets for every single home game this year, and has even given them away on Twitter for correct answers to his trivia questions. How many players do you think do that? Not many I would bet...

That's 486 season tickets for baseball games. Let's say the tickets are 50 bucks a piece; That's just under $25,000 in tickets he's giving away this season. I think he has earned the right to speak his mind.

No one I see is saying he doesn't have the right to speak his mind...but his comments and his motivation for making them are subject to the same scrutiny he is applying to Cleveland fans. Would he have said anything that he said about attendance or negativity towards the team in general if he didn't feel personally affronted by being booed? Likely not. To me I don't know if "crybaby" is exactly the right phrase to use then, but it certainly doesn't put him above reproach for his comments. Sounds to me like he cares more about what the fans think of him than what the fans think of the team.

As for the local media coverage, he was likely spoiled in St. Louis, where from what I hear it is the exact opposite of here...during the Rams season they talk about the Cardinals and free agency more than the Rams. St. Louis is a baseball town, and always has been...Cleveland is a football town and always has been...it is definitely different here. I agree with him...to a certain point. But not fully.
 
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buckeyemania11;2158065; said:
no chance against the Tigers with Ubaldo on the mound

3 hits and a walk allowed in 1 1/3 ( 1 of the hits was a 3 run HR) 3-1 Tigers

Maybe if he removed the sticker from under the bill he would be able to see the strike zone. 5 walks so far, come on.
 
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