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Cleveland Indians (2018)

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Have no idea what to think of Bieber after last night's performance. Looked like we found ourselves another Kluber for 4+ innings but then it was back to looking like a younger Josh Tomlin. Scary when you have to rely upon guys like Bieber and Plutko as starting pitchers when you have a bullpen full of crap.

Speaking of Tomlin what the hell ever happened to him. I thought he was sent to the bullpen.. I guess Francona must be really worried if he does not bring him in but brings in all the rest of the crap.
 
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LitlBuck said:
Have no idea what to think of Bieber after last night's performance. Looked like we found ourselves another Kluber for 4+ innings but then it was back to looking like a younger Josh Tomlin. Scary when you have to rely upon guys like Bieber and Plutko as starting pitchers when you have a bullpen full of crap.

Speaking of Tomlin what the hell ever happened to him. I thought he was sent to the bullpen.. I guess Francona must be really worried if he does not bring him in but brings in all the rest of the crap.
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Bieber has a decent upside. He certainly has better stuff than Tomlin. He's also only 23 right now. So still in development, he more than likely won't be Kluber, but remember Kluber didn't really break in until he was 27.

This is FanGraphs most recent take on him.

He sits 90-95, has touched 96, mixes in the breaking balls to various locations, and works in more changeups later in starts. Bieber works away from righties, using his fastball and slider in sequence very effectively. He locates his slider in a spot that is equal parts enticing and unhittable, and this trait runs through a lot of the pitchers who exceed scouting expectations and make a big-league impact with just solid stuff. It’s an above-average pitch on its own but garnered an elite swinging-strike rate last year. The stuff, alone, projects to the back of a rotation, but Bieber’s ability to locate gives him a chance to be a mid-rotation arm. It’s possible he has elite command and becomes something more.
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buckeyemania11 said:
Bieber has a decent upside. He certainly has better stuff than Tomlin. He's also only 23 right now. So still in development, he more than likely won't be Kluber, but remember Kluber didn't really break in until he was 27.

This is FanGraphs most recent take on him.
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I know he is only 23 years old but there are some pretty good pitchers in the major leagues that are not that much older and my comment regarding Tomlin was in regard to the fact that I have not seen him pitch in quite a few days. If he is in the bullpen why the hell is not Francona bringing him in for a couple innings. He is usually pretty good for about 2-3 innings before the wheels come out.
Also, the future is now so really cannot wait for these guys to get much older.
 
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LitlBuck said:
I know he is only 23 years old but there are some pretty good pitchers in the major leagues that are not that much older and my comment regarding Tomlin was in regard to the fact that I have not seen him pitch in quite a few days. If he is in the bullpen why the hell is not Francona bringing him in for a couple innings. He is usually pretty good for about 2-3 innings before the wheels come out.
Also, the future is now so really cannot wait for these guys to get much older.
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True, some players take a bit longer to develop though.

The problem with Tomlin is that he's a loose cannon who's liable to give up a meatball on any given pitch, guys just been unable to keep the ball in the park (17 HR allowed in 34 innings). He could give you 2 solid innings, sure, but this years version of Tomlin is more likely to give you a disaster than that. A 1.60 WHIP and opposing batters are hitting .322 off him. Not a good combo.
 
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LitlBuck said:
and the guys that Francona is bringing from the pen is not any different… Tomlin usually does not get rocked until about the third or fourth inning plus he is little cowboy
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That's the issue mainly, it doesnt matter who they bring in out of the pen, whoever it may be is more likely than not to get rocked.

To have any chance in October, they are going to have to acquire at least 2 decent middle relief arms via trade and hope Andrew Miller can somewhat return to form.

Everyone's just been a let down this year. Goody and Otero were decently reliable last year, this year they are both a disaster. They're gonna have to make moves instead of just plug and playing AAA scrubs and hoping one sticks.
 
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buckeyemania11 said:
That's the issue mainly, it doesnt matter who they bring in out of the pen, whoever it may be is more likely than not to get rocked.

To have any chance in October, they are going to have to acquire at least 2 decent middle relief arms via trade and hope Andrew Miller can somewhat return to form.

Everyone's just been a let down this year. Goody and Otero were decently reliable last year, this year they are both a disaster. They're gonna have to make moves instead of just plug and playing AAA scrubs and hoping one sticks.
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They need a decent a very good, and hope Goody recovers and is ok.

My guess is they sort of play this is as long as they can to the trade deadline for one of them to see, A. Who comes on the market based on teams falling back, and what the market is. B. What Salazar's situation is... and C. if they can find out who is just washed up and who is just deviating from the they're normal. (Olsen has only given up one run since May 3rd, while Otero just keeps getting rocked for example) and D. where they think Miller's knee is. -- but I really think they need to realize that they need some help sooner rather than later.. if you have to give up assets to get a guy, you might as well have him as long as possible. Too Bad the Marlins Pen sucks, I'd be the first one on the phone with Jeter.
 
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AKAK said:
They need a decent a very good, and hope Goody recovers and is ok.

My guess is they sort of play this is as long as they can to the trade deadline for one of them to see, A. Who comes on the market based on teams falling back, and what the market is. B. What Salazar's situation is... and C. if they can find out who is just washed up and who is just deviating from the they're normal. (Olsen has only given up one run since May 3rd, while Otero just keeps getting rocked for example) and D. where they think Miller's knee is. -- but I really think they need to realize that they need some help sooner rather than later.. if you have to give up assets to get a guy, you might as well have him as long as possible. Too Bad the Marlins Pen sucks, I'd be the first one on the phone with Jeter.
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Toronto could be a trade partner, they have some good mid relief arms and appear at least of now to be out of it (9 out of WC and 13 back in the east)

I don't see them ponying up too much for a closer from a struggling team to bring him in to be a MR. Brad Hand from San Diego would be nice, but they'd probably ask for too much for him.
 
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buckeyemania11 said:
Toronto could be a trade partner, they have some good mid relief arms and appear at least of now to be out of it (9 out of WC and 13 back in the east)

I don't see them ponying up too much for a closer from a struggling team to bring him in to be a MR. Brad Hand from San Diego would be nice, but they'd probably ask for too much for him.
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Probably some "closers" out there that should be 7th inning guys.
 
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LitlBuck said:
Speaking of Tomlin what the hell ever happened to him. I thought he was sent to the bullpen.. I guess Francona must be really worried if he does not bring him in but brings in all the rest of the crap.
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I guess I know where he has been after last night.
However, I still do not understand why he is not utilized a little bit more because when he does give up dingers they are usually solo shots and he can go may be 3 innings whereas some of those other guys in the bullpen cannot go more than one inning. I mean if he is not going to be used may be he might be worth something for some low level team.
 
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LitlBuck said:
I guess I know where he has been after last night.
However, I still do not understand why he is not utilized a little bit more because when he does give up dingers they are usually solo shots and he can go may be 3 innings whereas some of those other guys in the bullpen cannot go more than one inning. I mean if he is not going to be used may be he might be worth something for some low level team.
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Nobody is trading for him. He is a batting practice pitcher at this point. He leads the majors in homeruns allowed this season in 36.1 innings of work. That is a remarkably bad statistic. He should be given his walking papers like yesterday.
 
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