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Cleveland Cavs (2016 NBA Champions)

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five thirty eight has hated on Wiggins from the early days of his rookie year. Remember them wondering whether he'd ever amount to being as good as James Posey? LINK

Wiggins takes tough shots, and shoots them fairly well. He's right in the same neighborhood as Dirk, DeRozan, and Jimmy Butler. His three percentage has gone up every year.

His defense is adequate. Yes, there are times when it looks like he's coasting out there, but he actually takes on defensive challenges and tries to play help defense. The article compares him to Tony Allen and Draymond! He's 22 and 6-8, so there's hope for him to stick with his man and emerge as a solid, if not spectacular NBA defender. I've seen him do adequately against Kawhi and Heyward, so I'm not buying the "worst" label. Maybe his job is tough because he had Rubio and Dieng helping him?

I think the hate on Wiggins is just wishful thinking by Cavs fans that know the "GM" was rash to get rid of the guy so quickly because they just had to have Love.
 
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FiveThirtyEight can't "hate" anyone. They take the human element out of the equation as much as possible. The numbers tell the story.

Rubio is actually a solid defender, not that I'd give much credence to an argument about those around Wiggins. We know Steph Curry is a below average defender, but that only helps to highlight how good Klay Thompson is. Meanwhile, I don't know why we're still debating the Love/Wiggins trade when it resulted in a title.

To me, there are three good deals on the table, assuming the other team is willing to accept. A deal with Phoenix centered around Bledsoe and Jackson, a deal with Milwaukee centered around Middleton and Brogdon, and a deal with Denver centered around Harris, Chandler, and Murray. Honestly, the Denver deal may be my favorite at this point in time. I liked the Suns deal the most initially, but I'd be concerned about Bledsoe's durability and Jackson's ceiling. Middleton has injury concerns as well, but at least he and Brogdon are a relatively known quantity.
 
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HabaneroBuck said:
The article compares him to Tony Allen and Draymond!
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To quote the article:
In the way that defenders like Draymond Green or an in-his-prime Tony Allen seem to be in all places at all times, challenging seemingly every shot on the floor, Wiggins is omnipresent in his awfulness.
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So the "comparison" is that Wiggins is the exact opposite of Draymond Green and Tony Allen. I just wanted to clear that up.

HabaneroBuck said:
I think the hate on Wiggins is just wishful thinking by Cavs fans that know the "GM" was rash to get rid of the guy so quickly because they just had to have Love.
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I was one of the biggest proponents of the Love trade. There were a lot of reasons to like Kevin Love - experience, offensive fit, rebounding, the fact that Lebron wanted him on the team. Another reason that I liked the trade so much was because I didn't like Wiggins's game at all.

We have three years of stats to show that Wiggins is a one-dimensional player who has failed to live up to the hype. To keep believing that hype seems like "wishful thinking" to me.
 
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LordJeffBuck said:
To quote the article:

So the "comparison" is that Wiggins is the exact opposite of Draymond Green and Tony Allen. I just wanted to clear that up.


I was one of the biggest proponents of the Love trade. There were a lot of reasons to like Kevin Love - experience, offensive fit, rebounding, the fact that Lebron wanted him on the team. Another reason that I liked the trade so much was because I didn't like Wiggins's game at all.

We have three years of stats to show that Wiggins is a one-dimensional player who has failed to live up to the hype. To keep believing that hype seems like "wishful thinking" to me.
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That, and the Cavs, a CLEVELAND team, won the NBA title with Kevin Love. While he wasn't great in the finals, save for one possession of great defense (irony) he was very good throughout the playoffs.
 
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So the rumor they were batting around, and it is not substantiated, on Cleveland talk last week is that LBJ tried to get the Cavs to trade Kyrie for Chris Paul (his bud) at the deadline last year, and that maybe Kyrie just found out about it when Griffin left.
 
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Kyrie should know that all but about four players (LBJ, KD, Kawhi, Curry) in this league are tradeable. He's a fool if he ever thought he was one of them, and he's got a fragile ego if he's bothered by that.

I thought this was fixable, but LeBron isn't going to take too kindly to that wedding video. I'm excited to see the Cavs destroy whatever crap team Irving winds up on next year.
 
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Trade options will be extremely limited if all these young guys really are off the table. I understand why you'd value young talent, but not when someone like Irving is available. Irving is only a few years older than the players discussed in the column, and he's become everything you hope to see in a young star. Irving is one of the 10 best players in the league. It's unreasonable to expect any of the guys on that list to best that.
 
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IMO, all the GMs and owners are aware that Kyrie has put the Cavs in a really tough spot and know the Cavs will have to rid of him at some point soon. Kyrie will be a cancer in one way or another, so everyone else is just sitting back and waiting while trying to keep their young talent to hopefully put around Kyrie.
 
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Massive article dropped by Woj this morning regarding the future of the Cavaliers. Among the biggest takeaways:
As the Cleveland Cavaliers deliberate on deals to move All-Star guard Kyrie Irving, the franchise is operating under a self-prescribed mandate: Presume a future without LeBron James.

Cleveland isn't giving up on the possibility of re-signing James next summer, but it is no longer investing blind faith in the hope he will stay. For James, a reluctance to commit comes with an emerging set of complications. Beyond Irving's decision to ask for a trade, Cleveland has determined that it's unwilling to simply be reactive to James' possible departure.

Of course, Cavaliers officials prefer to re-sign James to a long-term deal and chase titles together into his twilight, but the Cavs are treating his unwillingness to commit as a call to protect themselves long term in the Irving trade, league sources said.
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The Cavaliers find themselves far more fixated on a young star, including New York's Kristaps Porzingis, Boston's Jayson Tatum, Phoenix's Josh Jackson and Denver's Jamal Murray, league sources told ESPN.
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Boston has expressed interest in Irving and could offer the best combination of short-term (Isaiah Thomas and Jae Crowder) and long-term (Jaylen Brown, Jayson Tatum, picks) assets. The Celtics have made no formal offer, and it is against Boston's front-office DNA to push out front with the most generous offer. Boston knows that Cleveland is mostly intrigued with Tatum, but the sides have not formally discussed that deal, league sources said.
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This Irving trade process has been deliberate, and teams believe the Cavaliers expect more aggressive conversations in September, closer to the start of training camps. Porzingis has emerged as a primary Cleveland target, but that's a conversation that can occur only with Cleveland's willingness to unburden the Knicks of the three years and $55 million left on Joakim Noah's contract. For now, the conversation is a nonstarter for the Knicks, league sources said.

For the right All-Star player, though -- Irving or otherwise -- multiple NBA teams are seriously questioning how emphatic of a "no" that will stay for New York. There continues to be distance between Porzingis and the organization, and how the Knicks truly value Porzingis' future could become clearer once they're together to begin the season.
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When Irving's trade request became public in mid-July, there was internal hope that the news would stir the market to furnish Cleveland with a return that could deliver impact to the 2017-18 season with James, as well as the possibility of a future without him. That hasn't happened, and it's become clear that Irving isn't commanding that kind of robust return on the market.

Between now and the inevitable Irving trade, Cleveland officials will make a choice on what the franchise values most -- its today or its tomorrow. Without a commitment to stay, without the presumption of a future together, LeBron James could be left in a most unfamiliar position: out of championship contention in Cleveland, counting the days until goodbye.
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