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Cleveland Browns (Finally drafting Buckeyes)

November 14th, 2021.

Browns - 7, Pats - 45.

Two biggest takeaways from the game last year that the Pats exploited.

- QB who was inaccurate downfield and to the numbers.
- Sprays the ball with inconsistency into various coverages sans play action and has a penchant for costly INT's.
- An IDline that, outside of Malik McDowell, had no other player with NFL starter potential.



Fast forward to 2022. The Pats exploited.

- QB who is inaccurate downfield and to the numbers.
- Sprays the ball with inconsistency into various coverages sans play action and has a penchant for costly INT's.
- An IDline that, outside of Perrion Winfrey, has no other players with NFL starter potential.



Browns - 15 Pats - 38



Heart. Soul.


More fans need to realistically adjust their expectations.

I realize you're passing along your (correct) observations about those 2 games,, so this is a little more of a response to some of the posts leading up to this, and including the observations about Brissett...

Yeah I mean he's not helping, but he's not the sole problem, and if he were, I don't think we'd have qll that much handwringing. (Because obviously he's not the guy)

The [much more concerning] problem is, this defense sucks right now. And it seems like the coaching.
 
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They were in a position to win both the Jets and Chargers games. Now they lost to a team playing a 3rd string, what rookie, QB. I’m not sure how much lower expectations could get???


Correct about the Jets and Chargers games. The defense lost both, along with a helping hand from Jacoby in the latter.

What , but especially a young QB's best friend?

- The running game
- play action
- throws on "running" downs and distances.

What about the Browns bad at?

- Limiting the running game
- LB's who can't find coverage landmarks and get into throwing windows
I.E. dealing with ANY passing game based on ball action.

Where were the primary big throws by the Pats hit on? Play action on 1st and 2nd, sprinkle in a couple great catches by WR's on outside placed balls. Derek Parker had a few Moss moments today against good coverage.

As a result from the weakness of not being able to limit the the run, you have to commit additional bodies along the defensive front and play more man coverage in the back. Which the Brownies did early with some good results. Until the adjustments came, and there aren't any coaching staffs better in the NFL than the Pats at adjustments and going after man coverage. Bill has been attacking DB's for years with TE's just like today, the only difference is we got a dose of Hunter Henry and not Gronk. Henry is good enough to ice DB's like Delpit while their coaches draw up designs that attack newly activated CB's like.... Greedy? No coincidence he gave up a TD today.



I realize you're passing along your (correct) observations about those 2 games,, so this is a little more of a response to some of the posts leading up to this, and including the observations about Brissett...

Yeah I mean he's not helping, but he's not the sole problem, and if he were, I don't think we'd have qll that much handwringing. (Because obviously he's not the guy)

This is true about Jacoby, but that's literally Baker as well (in a nutshell) Which means he doesn't hurt you, until he does. Which tends to mean everything around him has to be going great and the coaches don't have to leave a positive game script. And when things go off rails and you have to throw you way out of it, or you want to open the playbook and push the ball vertically? You get the same thing you saw today. Which is why the Patriots DB's were SO aggressive today on first breaks and attacking underneath. The Browns coaches are literally running out of ways to make the horizontal passing game work without a QB who can drive the ball downfield reliably.

The [much more concerning] problem is, this defense sucks right now. And it seems like the coaching.

Not to be "that guy", but I'm hoping this might help be a bit of an eye opener for many....

This is Tommy Togiai, and God love him for the Buckeye he is. And he's lined up at a 2i tech here in the Browns over front (3 tech to TE or called strength)

The nice thing about having this little 'cheat' in tech spacing from a 1i to a 2i is that it makes it a good bit harder to be reach blocked by the Center because of that slide on space. Your primary and ultimate responsibility should you get a 'zone to' (inside zone to the weakside) your way is that you can't let the center reach block you, you have to keep your outside shoulder free and collapse on the B gap bubble.


TT2ia.thumb.jpg.ee740033131b226c80fd1de363a168e6.jpg





This is Tommy still getting reach blocked by the center and surrendering that weakside B gap bubble....

TT2i.thumb.jpg.acb0de3be3647dec825304d913e8ddfb.jpg










In their 2nd drive of the 3rd Qtr, ATL ran 10 plays. All 10 runs. Of those 10, they went to the weakside 7 times and either Jordan Elliot or Tommy lost their assignment literally Every. Single. Time. I charted the plays myself. Contrast that with the Browns run defense seemingly breaking down as the games wear on and you can reach some obvious conclusions here.

That is the measure of how inadequate this current defense is equipped on the IDL. That teams can so simply pick whatever B gap bubble they want and go "yeah, there" and get a positive or above expected net gain 75% percent of the time.

It is not hyperbole when I say that, if you removed Myles, it's probably one of the worst Browns defensive line I've seen since the early days of the expansion. And because of this, you now have to commit such additional resources that you are now surrendering a vulnerability at what was once your greatest strength - the edge rush and DB/CB room. Tommy is a tweener and camp bubble player. The weight gain the coaches praised Jordan Elliot for has all but destroyed what first step burst he had. Taven Bryan is what he is and further highlights the dogmatic analytics weakness of this organization - that RAS (relative athletic score) can be used to bring in 'reclamation' Dline and make them functional. He is the living proof that it isn't that easy.

The IDL and IOL are the heart of your team. Without a heart, the body will cease to function. It's not coincidence the Browns have a top 3 IOL and the running game hums. Is it some stretch to believe that a bottom 3 IDL has the opposite, yet negative, effect on the defense against opposing running games?


Wade Phillips is one of my favorite defensive coaches from his time in the NFL and I've poured over a ton of material learning a lot of his philosophy. I am completely convinced that even if he were to walk in the doors of Berea today, he wouldn't be able to get much more out of this group because that is just how damn bad our talent up front is.



edit: That's not to completely absolve Stefanski OR Woods. Both have some flaws, but I've also seen evidence of their wrinkles week in and out, over the course of the season. But I can't in good conscience say that "it's coaching" when I see assignment losses on the most fundamental of plays.
 
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Correct about the Jets and Chargers games. The defense lost both, along with a helping hand from Jacoby in the latter.

What , but especially a young QB's best friend?

- The running game
- play action
- throws on "running" downs and distances.

What about the Browns bad at?

- Limiting the running game
- LB's who can't find coverage landmarks and get into throwing windows
I.E. dealing with ANY passing game based on ball action.

Where were the primary big throws by the Pats hit on? Play action on 1st and 2nd, sprinkle in a couple great catches by WR's on outside placed balls. Derek Parker had a few Moss moments today against good coverage.

As a result from the weakness of not being able to limit the the run, you have to commit additional bodies along the defensive front and play more man coverage in the back. Which the Brownies did early with some good results. Until the adjustments came, and there aren't any coaching staffs better in the NFL than the Pats at adjustments and going after man coverage. Bill has been attacking DB's for years with TE's just like today, the only difference is we got a dose of Hunter Henry and not Gronk. Henry is good enough to ice DB's like Delpit while their coaches draw up designs that attack newly activated CB's like.... Greedy? No coincidence he gave up a TD today.





This is true about Jacoby, but that's literally Baker as well (in a nutshell) Which means he doesn't hurt you, until he does. Which tends to mean everything around him has to be going great and the coaches don't have to leave a positive game script. And when things go off rails and you have to throw you way out of it, or you want to open the playbook and push the ball vertically? You get the same thing you saw today. Which is why the Patriots DB's were SO aggressive today on first breaks and attacking underneath. The Browns coaches are literally running out of ways to make the horizontal passing game work without a QB who can drive the ball downfield reliably.



Not to be "that guy", but I'm hoping this might help be a bit of an eye opener for many....

This is Tommy Togiai, and God love him for the Buckeye he is. And he's lined up at a 2i tech here in the Browns over front (3 tech to TE or called strength)

The nice thing about having this little 'cheat' in tech spacing from a 1i to a 2i is that it makes it a good bit harder to be reach blocked by the Center because of that slide on space. Your primary and ultimate responsibility should you get a 'zone to' (inside zone to the weakside) your way is that you can't let the center reach block you, you have to keep your outside shoulder free and collapse on the B gap bubble.


View attachment 33372





This is Tommy still getting reach blocked by the center and surrendering that weakside B gap bubble....

View attachment 33373










In their 2nd drive of the 3rd Qtr, ATL ran 10 plays. All 10 runs. Of those 10, they went to the weakside 7 times and either Jordan Elliot or Tommy lost their assignment literally Every. Single. Time. I charted the plays myself. Contrast that with the Browns run defense seemingly breaking down as the games wear on and you can reach some obvious conclusions here.

That is the measure of how inadequate this current defense is equipped on the IDL. That teams can so simply pick whatever B gap bubble they want and go "yeah, there" and get a positive or above expected net gain 75% percent of the time.

It is not hyperbole when I say that, if you removed Myles, it's probably one of the worst Browns defensive line I've seen since the early days of the expansion. And because of this, you now have to commit such additional resources that you are now surrendering a vulnerability at what was once your greatest strength - the edge rush and DB/CB room. Tommy is a tweener and camp bubble player. The weight gain the coaches praised Jordan Elliot for has all but destroyed what first step burst he had. Taven Bryan is what he is and further highlights the dogmatic analytics weakness of this organization - that RAS (relative athletic score) can be used to bring in 'reclamation' Dline and make them functional. He is the living proof that it isn't that easy.

The IDL and IOL are the heart of your team. Without a heart, the body will cease to function. It's not coincidence the Browns have a top 3 IOL and the running game hums. Is it some stretch to believe that a bottom 3 IDL has the opposite, yet negative, effect on the defense against opposing running games?


Wade Phillips is one of my favorite defensive coaches from his time in the NFL and I've poured over a ton of material learning a lot of his philosophy. I am completely convinced that even if he were to walk in the doors of Berea today, he wouldn't be able to get much more out of this group because that is just how damn bad our talent up front is.



edit: That's not to completely absolve Stefanski OR Woods. Both have some flaws, but I've also seen evidence of their wrinkles week in and out, over the course of the season. But I can't in good conscience say that "it's coaching" when I see assignment losses on the most fundamental of plays.

I will try to get back to this. Meantime fuck the Yankees
 
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Correct about the Jets and Chargers games. The defense lost both, along with a helping hand from Jacoby in the latter.
I totally agree with what you’re saying about the defense. I have to say Stefanski’s play calling at the end of the Chargers game, when they just needed to get some positive yards, was full retard. Not one run by Chubb. He’s too enamored with a passing game and a QB that he doesn’t have to run it.
 
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I totally agree with what you’re saying about the defense. I have to say Stefanski’s play calling at the end of the Chargers game, when they just needed to get some positive yards, was full retard. Not one run by Chubb. He’s too enamored with a passing game and a QB that he doesn’t have to run it.

I get the desire and need for offense balance when you have a QB like Jacoby. You protect him and stay efficient offensively by going against tendency (run, run pass)

Belichick and the Pats gave us a textbook example of that yesterday. And our defensive flaws played into the hands of what they needed to be successful with any young QB under center.

like I said above, Stef has done some good off-season work to add as many wrinkles to the offense as his personnel (QB) will allow him. Stealing pre-snap motions from the Ravens and utilizing that along with the pin and pull scheme against Carolina. Using empty and mirrored concepts against the Steelers "base" defensive alignments. Running more outside zone against the Chargers IDL that loves to cover up the IOL in their offshoot of double eagle or tite fronts. There is plenty of evidence to show good coach work and designing being done during the week.

However his in game calls, as you said, sometimes I feel they get away from him and he can lose himself starring at the goal and not the work in front of him. I'm on the fence about how early we gave up on the run yesterday. But I do know this team isn't built to come back from a deficit and that we lost Teller in the 1st half. So now it becomes something of a 'damned if you do' scenario that takes us back to Baker... we can't, and haven't been reliably able throw our way back into a game for 4 years now.
 
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Missed this game, but pretty much figured it would end up the same. I wasn’t disappointed! Until the stadium is empty on Sundays, this franchise will continue to be the “factory of sadness.” The problem is, all the idiot fans who will continue to support this franchise knowing it will produce the same exact results over and over again.
 
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