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- Thread starter Mike80
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Cheap and good investment since his brother is already on the list. Why cause more embarassment for the family?
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For the sake of an argument, I will accept this as true.
But what if Wentz (of Goff) is the next Eli Manning? Or Ben Roethlisberger? Or Joe Flacco? Or Aaron Rodgers? Or even Philip Rivers? Would any of those guys interest you? A QB doesn't need to be "once in a generation" in order to be worthy of the #2 pick. The NFL is a QB league, and if Wentz (of Goff) is good enough to get you deep into the playoffs on a consistent basis, then you draft him at #2 and plug your other holes later. (I will perform a comprehensive analysis later, but just about every NFL talent evaluator believes that Wentz is worthy of a top-10 pick, and most believe that Goff is as well).
We've had 17 years of lousy QB play. Haven't you people seen enough already?
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Certainly possible. Just as much as a talent can be overrated, it can be underrated and either QB could certainly end up worth the #2 pick in hindsight. It's just hard to get past the "whoever the Browns draft at QB will be a bust" mindset with the team constructed as it is currently and recent history considered. If either QB is the next Eli, Ben, Flacco or ARod, do you think we'll see that in Cleveland before their rookie deal is up and they move on to a more competent franchise, before this Cleveland team gets it's shit together with all of the other holes that need filled? One could argue that the next Eli, Ben, Flacco or ARod is ONLY the next if they AREN'T drafted by Cleveland. If they are drafted by Cleveland, maybe they're the next Couch, Quinn, Weeden, Manziel etc...Since there isn't a single QB that Cleveland has drafted since 1999 that has been successful, odds are that the Browns' selection only has one likely outcome (at least until they become a more solid/complete team.)
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Certainly, a QB's success is dependent not only on his own talent and work ethic, but also on coaching and scheme. The Browns finally appear to have a competent head coach who also happens to be somewhat of a QB guru. Seems like a talented, hard-working QB could thrive in this organization now, if he is given adequate time to develop.
What's happened in the past really has no bearing on this draft, especially because the Browns have a new team of talent evaluators in place. But if what you're saying is true - that the Browns are somehow incapable of drafting a competent QB - then Haslam might as well move the team to Knoxville because they will never win anything (nor become a more solid/complete team) with the putrid QB play that we've seen for the past 17 seasons.
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I agree with what you said. Just, IMO, the Browns' odds of finally finding their QB of the future go up if they just decide to focus on the rest of the team and worrying about QB later. The Browns never have much of a core and past QB successes (or lack thereof) could justifiably be attributed to that*.
*some have just been bad choices
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NorthCoastKid
Legend
Saying the Browns won't find the right QB at 2 "because Browns hurrrr durrrr" is just plain fucking stupid.
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tsteele316
Mr. Such and Such
Peyton Manning and Andrew luck can't be your qb draft barometer because they are beyond rare. You draft a qb at #2 if you think they are a potential franchise qb, whether they start game 1, game 6, or season 2.
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Poe McKnoe
Head Coach
With the second pick in the 2016 NFL draft, the Cleveland Browns select...the monster from 'Cloverfield.'
Pros: Pocket Presence
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At least they will be entertaining? I'd honestly pay money to see Manziel behind this line for a full season though.
So the plan is to give all the practice and preseason reps with 1s to RGIII... trot him out there for a couple games until he he gets broke.
And then throw the undeveloped rookie to the wolves? I realize that's not what you're arguing... but that's exactly what will happen in this scenario.
- Rogers wasn't #2 overall, and the Browns don't have Favre for him to sit behind either.
- As opposed to the next Tim Couch, Brady Quinn, Weeden, Johnny Football ? You act like this team hasn't tried the "franchise QB" theory before. Drafted 2 "franchise QBs" in the last 4 drafts. All they've accomplished is reaching for over-rated shits.
- There is something more important than the hole at QB... Offensive Line. Given what just happened in FA, I think they should focus on that before throwing any long-term QB out there.
In that respect, I'm fine with RGIII ... would've been fine with Manziel, Kaep, and others as well. Hell, I wouldn't care if they lined up a RB ran option this year.
I don't see how Wentz and Goff compare to guys like Marotti and Jameis (talent wise) either... they're a reach because this is a weak QB year. Given the need to rebuild the line and being a weak QB year I'd much rather grab BPA and punt "Suck for Luck" in 2016. Granted I say that w/o looking at who will come out at QB next year.
Drafting a QB at #2 this year would just repeat the pattern of reaching based on desperation and surge/push from media.
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What is your evidence for any of this? That Wentz and/or Goff aren't worthy of of #2 overall? That there will be another Andrew Luck in next year's draft? That the Browns could successfully execute a "Suck for Luck" campaign (If you remember, the Browns tried that tactic in 2011 and came up two losses short).
The Browns QB situation is desperate, so they need to make desperate moves. You have to get the QB situation right or your franchise is doomed. See the Cleveland Browns for the last 17 years. You keep drafting QBs until you get it right ... or you keep losing 70% of your games year in and year out because your QB play is awful.
And as far as "best player available" goes: Given the importance of the position, usually the "best QB available" is also the "best player available".
I'm working on an article now, in which I will compare all NFL teams QB performance since 1999. Let's just say that there is a strong correlation between quality QB play and winning. Here's a comparison of the New England Patriots, the Pittsburgh Steelers, and the Cleveland Browns. The numbers are shocking:
| NFL Team | Complete | Attempts | Comp Pct | Yards Passing | ---TDs--- | --INTs-- | Passing Eff | W/L Record | Winning Pct |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| New England Patriots | 6,047 | 9,643 | .627 | 67,147 | 495 | 205 | 91.61 | 181 - 91 - 0 | .665 |
| Pittsburgh Steelers | 5,324 | 8,635 | .617 | 60,436 | 394 | 255 | 89.87 | 168 - 103 - 1 | .619 |
| Cleveland Browns | 5,075 | 8,832 | .575 | 51,863 | 299 | 309 | 71.14 | 87 - 185 - 0 | .320 |
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There may not be a Luck next year, but there sure as hell isn't one this year. Wentz and Goff would be 22nd overall guys in other drafts. And we know how well that works.
They've been making desperate moves since expansion. Desperate moves in drafts for shit like Braylon, Winslow, Richardson, Quinn, Manziel, etc. Desperate moves in FA.
How's that worked out?
Nobody doubts there's a strong correlation between QB and Winning. Everyone knows it's the most important position on a 22man team. Still doesn't justify drafting a 2nd round QB with the #2 pick...
Those stat lines aren't helping you either. It says that scouting is important. Both those orgs have had 1 guy at the helm for most of my adult life.
Roethlisberger was #11 overall.
Brady was 6th round to Bledsoe's #1 overall.
What we know from Browns history is that drafting QBs in the 1st round b/c of desperation... well... just leads to a vicious cycle.
Moreover, drafting one and throwing them out there behind a depleted OL is criminal. Even if Wentz could be successful for a Green Bay (since we love Rodgers comparisons), he'd only be wasted behind this Browns OLine... and no, you won't be able to sit him behind an injured RGIII. That's another thing we know from history. If you don't have a true #1 QB and Coach stability, you can't groom a rookie behind him w/o eventually having that hand forced that year. Either due to injury or a need for the Coach to win now.
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Again, where is your evidence that Wentz and/or Goff are 2nd round QBs? Simply put, there is none. The only people putting a 2nd round grade on Wentz and Goff are Browns fans ... the same Browns fans who were head over heels in love with Johnny Football. Wentz and Goff will both be picked in the top-10, and if the Browns want one of them (which they should) then they will have to take him with the #2 pick.
The Browns drafted Joe Thomas #3 in the 2007 draft. He was the so-called "best player available". Thomas has been a Pro Bowl player in each of his nine seasons (six times All Pro), and he has played every offensive down of every game of his pro career. He will be an NFL Hall of Famer soon after his career is over. The Browns are 47-97 (.326) during Thomas's career. Stop the BPA insanity. Get your franchise QB, and get him now.
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