Cleveland Browns (2012 season)

[Bucklion]

And for the record, I'm not saying I wouldn't want, welcome, or support RGIII in Cleveland. I just think that you have to play the percentages some. Denver made the playoffs and beat the Squealers with Tim freaking Tebow. If we add a second shutdown corner and a second starting DE at 4 and 22, for example, we could approach their level of defense. Can anyone really say that doesn't appeal to them as well as a QB who can scramble and make a first down once in a while when we still have RBs that can't gain more than 3 yards and receivers who can't get open or catch? If they draft him, I hope he does well...but RGIII on last year's offense makes it still a [Mark May]ty offense. More exciting maybe, but still [Mark May]ty. Adding 2 good starters and resigning D'Quell could make us an elite defense. Elite anything appeals to me when it comes to Cleveland.

 

[tsteele316]

It's not a strawman or a copout, you just have nothing better to say. It is not the same argument about every single position because teams don't trade #1 picks over 2 or even 3 years to move up one or two spots to get safeties or punters. If anything that is the strawman. If you want to move up to get your favorite guard, you probably don't have to trade much to do it. DBs, once in a while you overpay. But QBs, that's where you trade multiple ones and often twos just to go up and get the second or third best guy. Are you really saying teams do that all the time for other positions? I really don't think so.

And the Giants had one 4-12 season when they drafted Eli, not 6 or 7. They had a much better team than the Browns have now.

again, nobody is talking about giving up 2 or 3 years worth of first round picks. that was never the argument except when you wanted to try and bail out your sinking ship of an argument. your argument can be applied to every single position being drafted in the top 10. that simply can't be argued. you know it. calling it lazy when all you did was toss out a handful of names is comically hypocritical as well. qb is the most important position on the field. can't be argued. cleveland has had total shit at the position for nigh on 13 years. oddly enough, the one year cleveland's offense was good was the year their stiff of a qb played out his ass for a stretch of games. not a coincidence. some day people will finally realize that it's not the other 10 starters on the field that have lead to total offensive ineptitude for over a decade.

 

[NFBuck]

The fact that they're bidding against Dan fucking Snyder will probably make all of this arguing pointless. With Al Davis in the ground, Dan Snyder is your new "batshit crazy owner". I can totally see them offering up a Saints/Ricky Williams package to move up. H&H aren't stupid...they'll have a reasonable limit in this thing.

 

[jlb1705]

oddly enough, the one year cleveland's offense was good was the year their stiff of a qb played out his ass for a stretch of games.

Oddly enough, the one year Cleveland had decent QB play it was because they picked up the scraps from Baltimore. A guy that the Ravens wouldn't even allow to hold a clipboard on Sundays came to the Browns and supplanted a first round QB that Cleveland traded up for.

 

[tsteele316]

Oddly enough, the one year Cleveland had decent QB play it was because they picked up the scraps from Baltimore. A guy that the Ravens wouldn't even allow to hold a clipboard on Sundays came to the Browns and supplanted a first round QB that Cleveland traded up for.

derrick anderson supplanted charlie frye, a 3rd round project qb. brady quinn was a contract holdout that didn't even get to camp until close to the preseason.

 

[itownbuckeye]

Oddly enough, the one year Cleveland had decent QB play it was because they picked up the scraps from Baltimore. A guy that the Ravens wouldn't even allow to hold a clipboard on Sundays came to the Browns and supplanted a first round QB that Cleveland traded up for.

And ironically the biggest reason they missed the playoffs that year was because said QB played horribly down the stretch

 

[jlb1705]

derrick anderson supplanted charlie frye, a 3rd round project qb. brady quinn was a contract holdout that didn't even get to camp until close to the preseason.

You're right. My bad.

 

[NFBuck]

And ironically the biggest reason they missed the playoffs that year was because said QB played horribly down the stretch

Oh God, lets not relive the Derek Anderson wars of 2008-09.

 

[AuTX Buckeye]

Does it really even matter... I mean at this point the browns are a new owner and a 3rd incarnation away from being good. H&H have earned a little more rope and this year draft wise I think we'll see if they truly have a plan or are just grasping at straws.

 

[Bucklion]

again, nobody is talking about giving up 2 or 3 years worth of first round picks. that was never the argument except when you wanted to try and bail out your sinking ship of an argument. your argument can be applied to every single position being drafted in the top 10. that simply can't be argued. you know it. calling it lazy when all you did was toss out a handful of names is comically hypocritical as well. qb is the most important position on the field. can't be argued. cleveland has had total [Mark May] at the position for nigh on 13 years. oddly enough, the one year cleveland's offense was good was the year their stiff of a qb played out his ass for a stretch of games. not a coincidence. some day people will finally realize that it's not the other 10 starters on the field that have lead to total offensive ineptitude for over a decade.

Sorry, I thought we were talking about trading up to get RGIII...with a bidding war, especially against multiple teams that include Dan Snyder, that is what it will take.

No, of course not, I mean obviously all we need is a QB to get to the promised land since Michael Vick won 10 Super Bowls in Atlanta and Marino won that many in Miami and Dan Fouts won that many in San Diego and Jim Kelly won that many in Buffalo...oh wait, no they didn't.

 

[tsteele316]

Sorry, I thought we were talking about trading up to get RGIII...with a bidding war, especially against multiple teams that include Dan Snyder, that is what it will take.

No, of course not, I mean obviously all we need is a QB to get to the promised land since Michael Vick won 10 Super Bowls in Atlanta and Marino won that many in Miami and Dan Fouts won that many in San Diego and Jim Kelly won that many in Buffalo...oh wait, no they didn't.

so, by moving to strawman #2, we should only draft 6th round qb's or guys that were castoffs because they blew out their throwing shoulder. or maybe cleveland should simply trade for a hall of fame qb, then have the best qb in the draft inexplicably fall in their laps in the late 20's.

 

[Bucklion]

so, by moving to strawman #2, we should only draft 6th round qb's or guys that were castoffs because they blew out their throwing shoulder. or maybe cleveland should simply trade for a hall of fame qb, then have the best qb in the draft inexplicably fall in their laps in the late 20's.

Ah yes, the predictable "anything I don't like = strawman" again. Let me put this plainly. This team needs a QB. It also needs a lot of other things. If we can get a good QB in free agency like Flynn or at the draft picks we have (like #4), then perfect. If not, I don't think that trading draft picks we have now, plus several future ones in a bidding war, to get a QB that MIGHT work out for a team that is years away from contending if we can't get him any significant help is a good idea. I'd rather have a good corner, a good RB, a good DE, and whatever else we can get with our picks and then see whether McCoy works out. If you disagree with that, fine. But put away the strawmen, Scarecrow. People can have a difference of opinion.

 

[AKAK]

Well, for fun, since everyone is playing os swimmingly in the sandbox...

Looks like the rumor, for now is, to move from 6 to 2, the Redskins would offer the #6, #39, and #70 as well as their first rounder next year.

So, what do the Browns need to offer to beat that, and is it worth it?

 

[Bucklion]

Well, for fun, since everyone is playing os swimmingly in the sandbox...

Looks like the rumor, for now is, to move from 6 to 2, the Redskins would offer the #6, #39, and #70 as well as their first rounder next year.

So, what do the Browns need to offer to beat that, and is it worth it?

So that's what, a 1, a 2, a 3, and next year's 1 from Snyder? Would probably then take the 2 first rounders this year and either next year's 1 or this year's high #2 to beat that. And there's no guarantee that the Rams won't go back to Snyder again and he won't offer more.

 

[tsteele316]

Ah yes, the predictable "anything I don't like = strawman" again. Let me put this plainly. This team needs a QB. It also needs a lot of other things. If we can get a good QB in free agency like Flynn or at the draft picks we have (like #4), then perfect. If not, I don't think that trading draft picks we have now, plus several future ones in a bidding war, to get a QB that MIGHT work out for a team that is years away from contending if we can't get him any significant help is a good idea. I'd rather have a good corner, a good RB, a good DE, and whatever else we can get with our picks and then see whether McCoy works out. If you disagree with that, fine. But put away the strawmen, Scarecrow. People can have a difference of opinion.

differences of opinion are fine. trying to back those opinions with brazenly flawed logic is going to get called out. and, once again, the original premise that started this discussion pages ago was the notion of using #22 to land griffin, not giving up 5+ picks over 2 years.