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Cleveland Browns (2012 season)

To echo was OH10 said - if Shurmur is gone (which is fine by me) please, please keep Jauron. That defense, with how young they are and as many late round picks or undrafted players starting - to have the game they did yesterday speaks volumes about the players and defensive coaches.
 
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Jake;2210785; said:
Good points.

Yeah, it's going to be tough because the fan base has had its patience tested so much since Modell flew to Baltimore they're just flat out of it. I can't blame them. Hell, I'm fed up with Jerry Jones after the last 15 years but at least I got 3 SB titles in the 90s (and a couple in the 70s). Browns fans my age haven't seen them win anything.

I joke about Mike Phipps but that really was the beginning of the Browns going from a quarter century of being a top franchise to being a laughing stock. Other than Kosar, and to an extent Sipe, it's been one bad QB decision after another and each one kills you for years. Looks like Weeden is just the most recent one.

To me the real kick in the head for Browns fans in recent years was the 2004 draft. They took Winslow instead of Roethlisberger, presumably because Jeff Garcia and Kelly Holcomb were the answers. Ouch.

I hear ya about Coleman. Dallas has struggled at safety for years and I wanted them to take a flyer on him late in the draft. They passed, and whoever they took instead is long gone.

I'm a bit of a younger Browns fan - I became aware of the Browns in the late 80's (oh joy). While I can't speak to the impact of some of the moves you referenced, I don't agree that moves that far back killed the Browns.

People forget (and I think Browns fans took for granted at the time) how good the 1994 team was. 11-5. Won a playoff game. Had what turned out to be a future HOF head coach. Had one of the best defenses in the league under Nick Saban. Had a solid QB. We all hated the QB and the coach because they unseated Bernie Kosar, but in hindsight it was the right thing to do.

The following year the Browns were down a little, but not out. Nick Saban had left for Sparty in the offseason - perhaps that was part of it. They were 4-5 when Modell announced he was moving the team. They limped to a miserable finish from there. This wasn't a terrible franchise that Modell packed up and carried away. They were a relevant team, and if Modell hadn't let all the air out maybe they don't lose six of seven games down the stretch - maybe they qualify for a wild card spot in '95 and maintain some of the momentum they had captured the year before.

You won't catch me saying that if they had stayed they would have won a Super Bowl like they ended up doing in Baltimore. Heck, if they had stayed they may not have even been in the right draft position to pick a guy like Ray Lewis. Plus, I know Cleveland sports well enough - I know better than to think of that as a possibility. However, the pieces were in place to remain a vital and competitive team going forward from that point.

To me, if you have to look back and point to some kind of foreshadowing event that took place ahead of the move that points to the current state of affairs in Cleveland, it would have to be the the replacement of Bernie Kosar. Kosar was on the decline, Testeverde was on the ascent, but we hated Belichick for making the move and hated Vinny for being the guy who took Bernie's spot. As fans we didn't handle it with any sort of perspective and it points to the way the fans and the team have reacted to the QB position with the new Browns. There's no patience on the part of fans. There's desperation on the part of coaches and GMs. Nobody commits to a player they believe in or a philosophy for how the team is to be assembled and run.

At this point, that's the thing I'd like most to see changed. Hardly anybody with the Browns (coach, GM, QB, etc.) has received more than a half-chance ever since the team was brought back. Despite being in a constant state of rebuilding they haven't even fully committed to that - they haven't been able to get the No.1 overall pick in a decade in spite of their sustained miserable state. I'm becoming convinced at this point they need to stick with the current personnel - give them more than a half-chance to be successful. If they are not successful, at least stick with them and commit to tanking and doing an proper rebuild instead of the perpetual triage that has become a way of life for the new Browns.
 
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Amusing

IF Little makes that catch instead of completely screwing it.. we score and win

and this thread takes a completely different direction...

wouldn't be "I love Weeden" but would be all about the D...

and hope for the future
 
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NJ-Buckeye;2210837; said:
Amusing

IF Little makes that catch instead of completely screwing it.. we score and win

and this thread takes a completely different direction...

wouldn't be "I love Weeden" but would be all about the D...

and hope for the future

I don't think so. I mean yes, it would be about the D, but it is anyway in part. But that offense was so pitifully bad, that even if they had won, it would be obvious that you can't expect 5 turnovers and a defensive TD every game.
 
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NJ-Buckeye;2210837; said:
Amusing

IF Little makes that catch instead of completely screwing it.. we score and win

and this thread takes a completely different direction...

wouldn't be "I love Weeden" but would be all about the D...

and hope for the future

weeden was 4 of 6 for about 40 yards when cleveland had 1st and 10 at philly's 13. then, trent richardson immediately drops a screen pass that actually had a chance at working, then the next play little botches what should have at worst been a 1st and goal reception.

shit spiraled from there. hard to say how the game would have changed if weeden was 5 of 7 with a td instead of 4 of 8 with a pick.
 
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jlb1705;2210835; said:
I'm a bit of a younger Browns fan - I became aware of the Browns in the late 80's (oh joy). While I can't speak to the impact of some of the moves you referenced, I don't agree that moves that far back killed the Browns.

People forget (and I think Browns fans took for granted at the time) how good the 1994 team was. 11-5. Won a playoff game. Had what turned out to be a future HOF head coach. Had one of the best defenses in the league under Nick Saban. Had a solid QB. We all hated the QB and the coach because they unseated Bernie Kosar, but in hindsight it was the right thing to do.

The following year the Browns were down a little, but not out. Nick Saban had left for Sparty in the offseason - perhaps that was part of it. They were 4-5 when Modell announced he was moving the team. They limped to a miserable finish from there. This wasn't a terrible franchise that Modell packed up and carried away. They were a relevant team, and if Modell hadn't let all the air out maybe they don't lose six of seven games down the stretch - maybe they qualify for a wild card spot in '95 and maintain some of the momentum they had captured the year before.

You won't catch me saying that if they had stayed they would have won a Super Bowl like they ended up doing in Baltimore. Heck, if they had stayed they may not have even been in the right draft position to pick a guy like Ray Lewis. Plus, I know Cleveland sports well enough - I know better than to think of that as a possibility. However, the pieces were in place to remain a vital and competitive team going forward from that point.

To me, if you have to look back and point to some kind of foreshadowing event that took place ahead of the move that points to the current state of affairs in Cleveland, it would have to be the the replacement of Bernie Kosar. Kosar was on the decline, Testeverde was on the ascent, but we hated Belichick for making the move and hated Vinny for being the guy who took Bernie's spot. As fans we didn't handle it with any sort of perspective and it points to the way the fans and the team have reacted to the QB position with the new Browns. There's no patience on the part of fans. There's desperation on the part of coaches and GMs. Nobody commits to a player they believe in or a philosophy for how the team is to be assembled and run.

At this point, that's the thing I'd like most to see changed. Hardly anybody with the Browns (coach, GM, QB, etc.) has received more than a half-chance ever since the team was brought back. Despite being in a constant state of rebuilding they haven't even fully committed to that - they haven't been able to get the No.1 overall pick in a decade in spite of their sustained miserable state. I'm becoming convinced at this point they need to stick with the current personnel - give them more than a half-chance to be successful. If they are not successful, at least stick with them and commit to tanking and doing an proper rebuild instead of the perpetual triage that has become a way of life for the new Browns.

I was engaging in a bit of hyperbole. By no means do I think the Mike Phipps debacle is the reason the Browns are struggling now. I just meant it marked the initial decline of a franchise that hadn't experienced one, and has struggled to get competitive - and remain so for any period of time - since then.

The Belichik era was on the verge. I remember them beating the Cowboys in Dallas - my Browns fans friends made sure I remembered it - and that was when the Cowboys were the dominant team in the NFL. But no one knew Belichik was Belichik yet and then the whole franchise moved and Cleveland had to start all over again. The bad part is they're still in start up mode in 2012.
 
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BigWoof31;2210862; said:
So what was the reaction during the Modell moment of silence. Did they even do it?

They came to their senses and realized a moment of racous booing, jeers, and f-bombs wasn't what the NFL had in mind, so they nixed it. :wink2:
 
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Bucklion;2210871; said:
Weeden got stuck under the American flag though, so there was that.

I don't think he was stuck. I think he was making out with Ricky Stanzi.

1bb5e1128952a48a0215471cd07a5de9.jpg
 
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When Haslam buys this team officially, I hope the first move that he makes is to fire Big Mike and does not give him time to resign. He made the decision to draft Weeden. This management team is unwilling to admit that they may draft mistakes such as Marecic and Little.

I also want to give the Browns a few more games before I start giving accolades to Jauron and this Browns defense.
 
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JCOSU86;2210901; said:
Wow. With that "effort" Weeden is suddenly on the train to MostHatedBrownsville.

Well the thing is he isn't exactly helping himself either. His whole attitude after the game was somewhat Shurmuresque, and his "I wasn't overwhelmed" comment rings awfully hollow considering how lost he was out there. It would actually be better if he was overwhelmed, he could at least get over that.
 
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NJ-Buckeye;2210591; said:
I hope Greg Little isn't hurt too bad...

That pass hit him right between the 1 and the 5.. it looked like it hurt.. he probably is going to have a heckuva bruise on his chest tomorrow

Mary Kay Cabot
‏@MaryKayCabot
#Browns Shurmur on Greg Little's drop near goal-line: "when the ball hits you in the neck, you've got to catch it.''

Told ya it hurt...
 
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