Cleveland Browns (2009 Season)

[mooktarr]

Mooktarr just collapsed and they have called an ambulance. Looks very bad.

 

[tsteele316]

the thinking is that lerner feels mangini is a decent coach, but he simply has too much power, and has nobody to challenge anything he does.

it's being said that mangini orchestrated the edwards trade and kokinis didn't even know about it until it was announced.

what's going to happen is that a president of football operations and a GM will be brought in, and they will ultimately decide Mangini's fate, which is how it should be.

with the exception of Daboll, who is now being phased out as OC, Mangini's staff isn't too bad at all.

 

[Piney]

the thinking is that lerner feels mangini is a decent coach, but he simply has too much power, and has nobody to challenge anything he does.

it's being said that mangini orchestrated the edwards trade and kokinis didn't even know about it until it was announced.

what's going to happen is that a president of football operations and a GM will be brought in, and they will ultimately decide Mangini's fate, which is how it should be.

with the exception of Daboll, who is now being phased out as OC, Mangini's staff isn't too bad at all.

Agreed

In the end this is what happens when you hire a head coach before the freaking GM.

 

[BuckNut65]

The problem with this organization is that you have an owner that got his money through his Daddy and has no business acumen whatsoever. Look at Dan Gilbert and the Cavs..there is a guy with an extremely sharp business sense that knows how to build an organization from the ground up. Quicken Loans didn't get burned in the mortgage crisis because they didn't invest in questionable loans....his motto was if it doesn't makes sense I am not going to do it. This has carried over to the Cavs and the organization is a model for the league and has grown in value tremendously.

Lerner, on the other hand, flies by the seat of his pants and flaps back and forth more than a woman's lips. He has absolutely no clue whatsoever. To make the comment that "I'm going to bring in a serious football man to get things straightened out" is a joke. What the hell was he doing eight months ago. We make the Raiders look like the model franchise of the league. The problem is that he has now created such a dysfunctional organization that it may be extremely difficult bringing in a high caliber individual to turn the organization around. Add to the fact that he had to dish out tons of money to buy out Butch Davis, Phil Savage and Romeo Crennel and now possibly Mangenius. If you were Bill Cowher would you want to come to this organization?? I'm, not sure he would come if they offered him 20 million a year because he is smart enough to know that the way this organization has been assembled by Lerner there is no chance in hell of winning.

Where's the Tylenol!

 

[LitlBuck]

Accorsi not coming to the Browns

Cleveland.com

Reports of Cleveland Browns hiring Ernie Accorsi are false
By Tony Grossi
November 03, 2009, 9:25AM

Cleveland, Ohio -- Former Browns General Manager Ernie Accorsi is not part of the reorganization of the club's football operations, he said this morning.

Accorsi, who last served as general manager of the New York Giants, said he is "happily retired" and has not been in contact with Browns owner Randy Lerner regarding a consultant position.

Accorsi was retained by Lerner in January as a consultant during the Browns' search for a general manager. His top recommendation to Lerner was Dave Gettleman, Giants director of pro personnel. Lerner chose George Kokinis, the preferred choice of coach Eric Mangini.

Kokinis was fired on Monday and now Lerner is looking to rebuild his organization again.

"I am not taking any GM job anywhere. Period," Accorsi said. "I am not taking any full-time job. I serve the league office as a consultant. I have consulted in various areas with four NFL clubs the past two years."

More

I guess Lerne asked Accorsi for his recommendation before he hired Kokinis and Accorsi recommended the vice president of football operations from the New York football Giants but then Lerner hired Mangini's recommendation. No wonder Accorsi would not come back to the Browns.

I wonder if the falling out between Mangini and his buddy had anything to do with the QB mess up in addition to the possibility of Mangini making all of the trades without consulting the GM.

 

[LitlBuck]

Oh,something that I found very interesting was that Lerner was at the Bears game this past Sunday but did not sit in the press box but was on the field in the end zone where the players come in and out of the locker room. This is really quite unusual for any owner to stay around that area.

I do not think that Lerner is a dumb person. In fact, he probably is a very intelligent individual and knows more about management than any of us but I think he trusted someone, Mangini, who completely led him astray.

 

[BuckNut65]

I do not think that Lerner is a dumb person. In fact, he probably is a very intelligent individual and knows more about management than any of us but I think he trusted someone, Mangini, who completely led him astray.

You gotta be kidding me?? We aren't talking about his first trip to the rodeo here......
1) Butch Davis
2) Romeo Crennel
3) Mangenius

He even stated that he thought he was on the right track with Savage and Crennel until all of the things that he thought were in place with the organization were in fact, not. That's because he is too far removed form the organization to know what is going on. If he was capable of judging what was necessary to run the organization the Browns wouldn't be in this mess.

Lerner owns this team like it's a hobby....The NFL is a business and it is about winning and making money just like any other business. Owners and leaders that know how to evaluate skills and abilities succeed...those who do not fail. This owner has been a complete failure. He chose these people to lead his organization and no one else. He deserves the blame.

 

[kippy1040]

This is so sad. But the bright side of all this is that we are at the bottom and there is no way but up from here on. I have been a Browns fan since
1951 and i never thought i would see this great franchise be in the position
it has gotten itself into.

Paul Brown would be rolling in his grave and there sits Art Modell R.O.T.F.L.H.A.O. My dream in life as i got older was to have
season tickets but now i realize that this will never happen at my age now.
To think back to 1987 and we were one sticking play away from the super
bowl makes me so sad for all of you younger Browns fans in Cleveland. I still have the VHS tape of that game and i break it out once in a while just for good measure of what was almost dream come true.

 

[LitlBuck]

You gotta be kidding me?? We aren't talking about his first trip to the rodeo here......
1) Butch Davis
2) Romeo Crennel
3) Mangenius

He even stated that he thought he was on the right track with Savage and Crennel until all of the things that he thought were in place with the organization were in fact, not. That's because he is too far removed form the organization to know what is going on. If he was capable of judging what was necessary to run the organization the Browns wouldn't be in this mess.

Lerner owns this team like it's a hobby....The NFL is a business and it is about winning and making money just like any other business. Owners and leaders that know how to evaluate skills and abilities succeed...those who do not fail. This owner has been a complete failure. He chose these people to lead his organization and no one else. He deserves the blame.

I don't want to get into an argument with you regarding Lerner's management skills but I just think he is probably a lot more knowledgeable than you are giving him credit for. I just think that when they came to the Browns he listened and trusted the wrong people. Just like I mentioned above, Accorsi told him he should hire the VP of Forkball Operations for the New York football Giants and instead he went and hired Mangini and let him dictate his boss. Maybe he is dumb when it comes to football but I don't think that carries over into his business life for whatever that is worth.

 

[Jake]

Mangini will never be a head coach after the Browns job. He ticks off his players and, frankly, makes lousy personnel decisions. He may be a good X and O's guy - hard to tell with no talent on the field - but some guys are not cut out to be head coaches. Some position coaches/coordinators are best suited for those roles.

 

[BuckNut65]

Maybe he is dumb when it comes to football but I don't think that carries over into his business life for whatever that is worth.

Most of us here are die hard Browns fans that have been waiting a long time for something positive to happen. When Al Lerner won the bidding for the expansion Browns everyone including my self was excited. We had a billionaire owner who would run a first class organization and bring in the best talent. It was going to be a far cry from the Modell years...remember when he actually had to take out a loan to sign Andre Rison as a FA.

Well we still have a wealthy owner but here we are at what I would consider the lowest point of this franchise since they packed up and went to Baltimore. Never thought I would feel like that again. I am not a fair weather fan so I will continue to follow the Brownies but most of us have reached a point that I didn't think we would since we came back in the league. A sense of futility and hopelessness. I don't know what Randy Lerner is, but if he truly cared about this team like he says he does he needs to realize that this franchise is teetering on the abyss and he is largely responsible for it. You can't fire the owner so all we can do is pray that he can finally make a logical intelligent decision that will turn around the fate of this franchise.

 

[tsteele316]

Most of us here are die hard Browns fans that have been waiting a long time for something positive to happen. When Al Lerner won the bidding for the expansion Browns everyone including my self was excited. We had a billionaire owner who would run a first class organization and bring in the best talent. It was going to be a far cry from the Modell years...remember when he actually had to take out a loan to sign Andre Rison as a FA.

Well we still have a wealthy owner but here we are at what I would consider the lowest point of this franchise since they packed up and went to Baltimore. Never thought I would feel like that again. I am not a fair weather fan so I will continue to follow the Brownies but most of us have reached a point that I didn't think we would since we came back in the league. A sense of futility and hopelessness. I don't know what Randy Lerner is, but if he truly cared about this team like he says he does he needs to realize that this franchise is teetering on the abyss and he is largely responsible for it. You can't fire the owner so all we can do is pray that he can finally make a logical intelligent decision that will turn around the fate of this franchise.

and setting up a proper football front office hierarchy is the first step in doing exactly what you want him to do. by the by, had lerner listened to the guy he had in place before, instead of bowing to the will of the fans, john collins would have never lost the power struggle with phil savage, who collins thought was in way over his head. we see who ultimately turned out being right in that ordeal.

 

[Piney]

The problem with this organization is that you have an owner that got his money through his Daddy and has no business acumen whatsoever. Look at Dan Gilbert and the Cavs..there is a guy with an extremely sharp business sense that knows how to build an organization from the ground up. Quicken Loans didn't get burned in the mortgage crisis because they didn't invest in questionable loans....his motto was if it doesn't makes sense I am not going to do it. This has carried over to the Cavs and the organization is a model for the league and has grown in value tremendously.


Where's the Tylenol!

That is one thing that makes Kosar really interesting. Kosar & Dan Gilbert were on the radio last night with Triv. (before this all came out) Gilbert was pimping Issue 3 and seems like Kosar is part of that group too.

But near the end they started talking about sports organizations and Triv asked Gilbert what he would do with the Browns. As Gilbert was talking you can hear Kosar ears perk up as he was agreeing with what Gilbert was saying (ie starting with a message/identity and building from that message)

You bringing this up also made me rethink of that conversation last night. And Kosar does have a bit of Gilbert in him (smart businessman) and also that Kosar seemed impressed by Gilbert.

Cleveland.com


I wonder if the falling out between Mangini and his buddy had anything to do with the QB mess up in addition to the possibility of Mangini making all of the trades without consulting the GM.

I read something (can't find the link) it seemed like Kokinis was butting heads with Mangini alot over player personnel. Also there was another article that mentioned that Kokinis wasn't even involved in the Edwards trade and didn't learn about it til it was happening.


This is all just a clusterfuck, and is summing up the last 10 years pretty well.

 

[jlb1705]

This is so sad. But the bright side of all this is that we are at the bottom and there is no way but up from here on. I have been a Browns fan since
1951 and i never thought i would see this great franchise be in the position
it has gotten itself into.

Paul Brown would be rolling in his grave and there sits Art Modell R.O.T.F.L.H.A.O. My dream in life as i got older was to have
season tickets but now i realize that this will never happen at my age now.
To think back to 1987 and we were one sticking play away from the super
bowl makes me so sad for all of you younger Browns fans in Cleveland. I still have the VHS tape of that game and i break it out once in a while just for good measure of what was almost dream come true.

Younger Browns fan here. I'm just old enough that I just started to become aware of the Browns in the most basic sense during that late '80s period. For me, the "glory days" of the Browns consist of the Belichick era before the relocation rumors started swirling. Sad, I know.

The thing that drives me insane about this is that I don't have to root for the Browns. I mean, it's not like they're my home team. I live in Cincinnati, I'm from Dayton, and I've never so much as passed thru Cleveland. I got this from my dad, who was a total deadbeat. Now I'm stuck rooting for his deadbeat team. I really shouldn't give a shit about this the Browns - but I do. I hope they get this thing fixed before I have an seven year old son so I can raise him to be a Browns fan in good conscience.

 

[jlb1705]

You bringing this up also made me rethink of that conversation last night. And Kosar does have a bit of Gilbert in him (smart businessman) and also that Kosar seemed impressed by Gilbert.

Isn't Bernie broke? Please correct me if I'm wrong, but his recent troubles don't indicate to me that he's a smart business man. He strikes me as someone who has been able to connect himself to business because of his name - some of it good, some of it really bad.