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Cavs 09-10 Season (official thread)

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ImFrigginFly;1659748; said:
Not a lot of people around here are too enthused over Amare. I don't know why; I think he could be a top 5 big man in the league. Oh wait he is the starting center for the West. Yes, you trade Varejao for Stoudemire and it's not even close.
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My issue with him is his (rumored) attitude problems and his defense. Yeah, he'd add another scoring threat, but I don't know if that makes up for what AV brings nor what you would lose if you trade J.J...would he sulk not being the primary scoring option? Could he coexist with Shaq? Does him coming in throw off the chemistry that they've developed again? Would he play defense?

This is the best team in the NBA right now. If there was a glaring need for another scorer, I'd be for it, but I don't think there is. They've won 13 in a row (and knocked off some pretty good teams) without MoWilliams and he'll be back in a couple weeks. That's basically adding another scoring threat right there. The one thing I think that was lacking last year was an interior defensive presence and I think Shaq now provides that. I just don't really see it as a necessary move. Not enough to give up a guy like AV or a future star like J.J...
 
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NFBuck;1659751; said:
My issue with him is his (rumored) attitude problems and his defense. Yeah, he'd add another scoring threat, but I don't know if that makes up for what AV brings nor what you would lose if you trade J.J...would he sulk not being the primary scoring option? Could he coexist with Shaq? Does him coming in throw off the chemistry that they've developed again? Would he play defense?

This is the best team in the NBA right now. If there was a glaring need for another scorer, I'd be for it, but I don't think there is. They've won 13 in a row (and knocked off some pretty good teams) without MoWilliams and he'll be back in a couple weeks. That's basically adding another scoring threat right there. The one thing I think that was lacking last year was an interior defensive presence and I think Shaq now provides that. I just don't really see it as a necessary move. Not enough to give up a guy like AV or a future star like J.J...
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You're probably right in the sense that we don't really have a need. And I can't answer those what-if questions, I just think he's an immensely talented younger player, and he would benefit in the Cavs system. JJ is starting to come along though luckily.
 
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The All-Star team doesn't play defense. The Cavs do. That's why the Cavs keep Andy and why I'd rather have Hickson too. Stoudemire is lousy defensively - does anybody think that's gonna change in time for the playoffs where defense matters most?

I don't think the Cavs should trade for anybody if the price involves anything other than Wally, Jawad, a draft pick and/or Z (to be bought out and re-signed). If a deal is there at that price, take it. If not, I think this team already has what it needs in place to win it all. They have depth and can play virtually any lineup combination you can imagine. They are the best team in the league, and just got back Delonte West. Soon they'll be getting back Mo and adding Powe. I don't think they need to pay a steep price for a rent-a-player.
 
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ImFrigginFly;1659755; said:
You're probably right in the sense that we don't really have a need. And I can't answer those what-if questions, I just think he's an immensely talented younger player, and he would benefit in the Cavs system. JJ is starting to come along though luckily.
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He's not that young really...I believe he just turned 28, is in his 8th year, and already has a history of knee problems. Offensively, yes, he's very talented, but I think his defensive deficiencies negate that on this team. Additionally, I'm not sure how his offensive skillset would really fit in this system either. You put him and Shaq on the floor at the same time and you have two big bodies clogging up the middle and possibly interfering with what LBJ does best.

It would be a splashy move and would have a lot of superficial fans/media types salivating, but when you look beneath the surface, I think it adds more question marks than you want on a team that is already playing at a very high level without him. Just my two cents...
 
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NFBuck;1659751; said:
My issue with him is his (rumored) attitude problems and his defense. Yeah, he'd add another scoring threat, but I don't know if that makes up for what AV brings nor what you would lose if you trade J.J...would he sulk not being the primary scoring option? Could he coexist with Shaq? Does him coming in throw off the chemistry that they've developed again? Would he play defense?

This is the best team in the NBA right now. If there was a glaring need for another scorer, I'd be for it, but I don't think there is. They've won 13 in a row (and knocked off some pretty good teams) without MoWilliams and he'll be back in a couple weeks. That's basically adding another scoring threat right there. The one thing I think that was lacking last year was an interior defensive presence and I think Shaq now provides that. I just don't really see it as a necessary move. Not enough to give up a guy like AV or a future star like J.J...
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We aren't/shouldn't trading AV for anyone.

What do you imagine JJ being 3/4 years down the road? Is his ceiling better than Amare? Honestly? It's hard to project what player's attitudes will be on elite teams when they've never played for one.

Trading Z/JJ (+pick?) for Amare makes us better this year and makes us a more attractive to sign Lebron long term. Amare is the "in guy" for trade rumors, but I doubt he's attainable for the right price (JJ+Z+maybe a 1st round pick). Jaminson is probably attainable for the same price, but he's no where near worth it per my previous post.

Bottom line, unless someone blows the cavs away, we stand pat like we should.
 
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dav713;1659764; said:
What do you imagine JJ being 3/4 years down the road? Is his ceiling better than Amare? Honestly? It's hard to project what player's attitudes will be on elite teams when they've never played for one.
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I think J.J. projects to a double-double guy (18-20 ppg, 10 rpg) once he matures. We're already seeing flashes of that now. That's better than what A'mare gives you now (21-8) and he ain't getting better. Yeah, it is hard to project, that doesn't change the fact it's a question mark that is unnecessary IMO.

Trading Z/JJ (+pick?) for Amare makes us better this year and makes us a more attractive to sign Lebron long term. Amare is the "in guy" for trade rumors, but I doubt he's attainable for the right price (JJ+Z+maybe a 1st round pick). Jaminson is probably attainable for the same price, but he's no where near worth it per my previous post.
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I disagree that it makes the Cavs better. Like I said earlier, I don't think his offensive skillset fits in real well with this teams dynamic. Add in the fact he doesn't play defense for shit, and it may actually detract from this team's strengths. A'mare isn't young either. There's a lot of wear and tear on him already. J.J. has much more upside at this point so I don't think bringing him in makes Cleveland more attractive to LBJ.

I would rather have Jamison, personally, but I don't think he's needed either. Word is, the Wiz are backing away from trading him anyway.

Bottom line, unless someone blows the cavs away, we stand pat like we should.
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This I agree with. I just don't see a move needed to win a title. Bringing in A'mare could make them better, but it could just as likely throw a major wrench in a team that's already playing the best ball in the league without their second best player. If they were in dire need of another scorer, make the move. I don't think they do.
 
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Take it for what it's worth, but the SC ticker says that this deal is close. Z and JJ for Amare. I highly doubt Ferry would make this or any deal without clearing it with Lebron beforehand. I'd hate to give up JJ, but Amare is the same type of player just further along with more injury concerns. This could also be a move that allows the Cavs to sign and trade Amare for another all-star type player assuming the other player wants a max deal, but not with his current team (Bosh). The only downside with Amare is that I've heard he is a me first player that doesn't play defense. Lebron would need to sit him down and explain that the Cavs are a defensive team and he needs to play it. That is a change Mo was able to make when he came in so hopefully Amare could make it to. You just hope to have guys that buy in to the team mentality and aren't just about getting stats.
 
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Sources: Cavs inching closer to deal for Amare Stoudemire - ESPN


i like the trade...i love JJ but by keeping him is he going to give us a better chance of winning it this year? not more of a chance then amare gives us...i would perfer jamison but it is a long shot plus trading hickson and Z for jamison leaves shaq as the lone center for at least a month and the wizards stating that they dont want to help the cavs could not buy out Z's contract just so we couldnt retain him...making the deal with the suns allows ferry to deal with kerr who will buy out Z's contract allowing him to come back to the cavs if he wants in a month...i trust kerr doing this way more then if we dealt with the wizards or any other team...amare puts us in a better position to win now, hes young and we could use him in the future if we wanted or we could trade him....JJ is still a work in progress and his play being great right now only makes his trade value higher which is what we wanted....and keeping lebron is #1 priority and making moves like this shows him we are doing everything possible to win
 
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NFBuck;1659769; said:
I think J.J. projects to a double-double guy (18-20 ppg, 10 rpg) once he matures. We're already seeing flashes of that now. That's better than what A'mare gives you now (21-8) and he ain't getting better. Yeah, it is hard to project, that doesn't change the fact it's a question mark that is unnecessary IMO.


I disagree that it makes the Cavs better. Like I said earlier, I don't think his offensive skillset fits in real well with this teams dynamic. Add in the fact he doesn't play defense for shit, and it may actually detract from this team's strengths. A'mare isn't young either. There's a lot of wear and tear on him already. J.J. has much more upside at this point so I don't think bringing him in makes Cleveland more attractive to LBJ.

I would rather have Jamison, personally, but I don't think he's needed either. Word is, the Wiz are backing away from trading him anyway.


This I agree with. I just don't see a move needed to win a title. Bringing in A'mare could make them better, but it could just as likely throw a major wrench in a team that's already playing the best ball in the league without their second best player. If they were in dire need of another scorer, make the move. I don't think they do.
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I disagree with most of your (valid) points about Amare vs. Andy, JJ, x. Can't come up with a good enough arguement other than the old "I've seen him play, seen what he's capable of". So this is where I abandon my arguement because you won't ever see my way and I won't ever see yours on this topic.

Touche.
 
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ImFrigginFly;1659852; said:
I disagree with most of your (valid) points about Amare vs. Andy, JJ, x. Can't come up with a good enough arguement other than the old "I've seen him play, seen what he's capable of". So this is where I abandon my arguement because you won't ever see my way and I won't ever see yours on this topic.

Touche.
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What does Amare add to this team? Can't be on the floor at the same time as Shaq; didn't work in Phoenix and LBJ doesn't need more people eating up lane space. So is he only playing when Shaq is not on the floor? What about when/if Z comes back? Then we are back to the defensive concerns? How does Amare improve our defense? My contention is that it doesn't, it makes it worst.

I side with those that have said, we are already one of, if not the best teams in the league as is. Now we add another player that needs the center stage on a team where he might be the third or fourth option.

I vote for staying put. But, Ferry didn't call me.
 
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fanaticbuckeye;1659869; said:
What does Amare add to this team? Can't be on the floor at the same time as Shaq; didn't work in Phoenix and LBJ doesn't need more people eating up lane space. So is he only playing when Shaq is not on the floor? What about when/if Z comes back? Then we are back to the defensive concerns? How does Amare improve our defense? My contention is that it doesn't, it makes it worst.

I side with those that have said, we are already one of, if not the best teams in the league as is. Now we add another player that needs the center stage on a team where he might be the third or fourth option.

I vote for staying put. But, Ferry didn't call me.
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Those are poor arguments. It didn't work in Phoenix with THAT system. Also, how will Amare clog the lane any more than JJ did, when his jumper is leaps and bounds better than JJ's? I can't argue with the D concerns, because we haven't seen him play much D. But, you also have to take into account that Amare hasn't played for a coach who's been mistaken for a defensive guru. JJ has his lapses on D as well. Mo wasn't known as a defensive player either, and he's been pretty solid now. If Bron signs off on it, then get it done.
 
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fanaticbuckeye;1659869; said:
What does Amare add to this team? Can't be on the floor at the same time as Shaq; didn't work in Phoenix.
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Personally, I love the way things are now so I dislike this trade but just because it didn't work in Phoenix doesn't mean it won't work here. We run a completely different system than Phoenix did and we have a completely different supporting cast. and I am a firm believer that LeBron can make ANYTHING work.
 
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