Big Ten and other Conference Expansion

[Wadcutter]

Sheesh. Brutal permanent opponents outside of Ohio State.

Yea I was thinking the same thing when I read the list, a regular murderer’s row.

 

[Bestbuck36]

4 Conferences with 16 teams each and call that the Championship Division. The rest can kick rocks or conferences can develop some kind of relegation rules.

64 teams is more than enough, hell they could do 8 teams and it would look about the same as it does now lol. No more independents. Pick a conference and let's move forward.

 

[ScriptOhio]

4 Conferences with 16 teams each and call that the Championship Division. The rest can kick rocks or conferences can develop some kind of relegation rules.

64 teams is more than enough, hell they could do 8 teams and it would look about the same as it does now lol. No more independents. Pick a conference and let's move forward.

Here's my 2¢ worth:

1. Yeah I agree and the 4 conference winners are 4 teams in the CFPs. That would sure would simplify everything; but the math doesn't work.

Currently there are already 64 teams in the Power 5 (ACC = 14 + B1G = 14 + SEC = 14 + PAC12 = 12 + Big XII = 10). This doesn't even count the planned Big XII expansion in a couple years. Besides, who gets screwed to let Notre Dame in?.....

And you know that 65th team will be bitching like hell too......

2. If Ryan Day is right and it takes (at least) $13M NIL dollars a year to maintain a playoff competitive team year in and year out, you will probably see a definite separation of the haves and have nots with the Power 5 teams. I think you'll see only about 1/4 (maybe even less) of the current teams have the local businesses, alumni, and fan base to support that much annual NIL money for the long haul.

 

[pnuts34]

Here's my 2¢ worth:

1. Yeah I agree and the 4 conference winners are 4 teams in the CFPs. That would sure would simplify everything; but the math doesn't work.

Currently there are already 64 teams in the Power 5 (ACC = 14 + B1G = 14 + SEC = 14 + PAC12 = 12 + Big XII = 10). This doesn't even count the planned Big XII expansion in a couple years. Besides, who gets screwed to let Notre Dame in?.....

And you know that 65th team will be bitching like hell too......

2. If Ryan Day is right and it takes (at least) $13M NIL dollars a year to maintain a playoff competitive team year in and year out, you will probably see a definite separation of the haves and have nots with the Power 5 teams. I think you'll see only about 1/4 (maybe even less) of the current teams have the local businesses, alumni, and fan base to support that much annual NIL money for the long haul.

So essentially money will be spent to keep the same teams that are already dominating, in the same positions.

 

[CincyInterloper]

I wonder if NIL will increase the disparity in talent between the top and bottom teams of the power conferences? Unlike television dollars that can be evenly divided within a conference, I expect NIL money for top players to vary quite a bit between teams. Will a large market team like Houston have a built in NIL advantage over a team like Iowa State? NIL has lots of factors, and it remains to be seen how it shakes out. I think we might see a lot of shifting around in the power rankings of universities outside the traditional elite programs with national fan bases.

 

[Zurp]

I wonder if NIL will increase the disparity in talent between the top and bottom teams of the power conferences? Unlike television dollars that can be evenly divided within a conference, I expect NIL money for top players to vary quite a bit between teams. Will a large market team like Houston have a built in NIL advantage over a team like Iowa State? NIL has lots of factors, and it remains to be seen how it shakes out. I think we might see a lot of shifting around in the power rankings of universities outside the traditional elite programs with national fan bases.

1. Absolutely I think it will increase the disparity in talent within power conferences. Take Ohio State and Indiana. Ohio State has a huge following - much bigger than Indiana does. Plus, Ohio State has Columbus, and maybe Cleveland and Cincinnati. What does Indiana have? Indianapolis? How much of the Indianapolis market is split with Purdue and Notre Dame? Ohio State has a bigger following, and a bigger pool to pay its players. If you're a high school player, would you rather go to Ohio State and sit on the bench a couple of years and hopefully get some PT by Year 3, or go to Indiana and get some PT in Year 1? Before you answer, know that you can get $100,000 a year at Ohio State, or $15,000 a year at Indiana. And still before you answer, know that your parents have been working two jobs each to pay for you and your 3 siblings to share a 3-bedroom, 1-bathroom apartment.

2. You make a good point about shifting of power. I think I had assumed that the traditional powers might remain the good teams. But maybe Washington can pull in a bunch of resources from Seattle, or, like you said, Houston from Houston. I don't see a team like Alabama losing power and falling below Houston, but your example of Houston and Iowa State sounds plausible. I'll be telling my grandkids: "Yeah, only 20 years or so ago, Clemson used to own the ACC. Yeah, they consider .500 to be a "good" year. But they used to beat Boston College all the time. Nowadays, Boston College beats them like a drum. Did that cloud just laugh at me?"

 

[CincyInterloper]

1. Absolutely I think it will increase the disparity in talent within power conferences. Take Ohio State and Indiana. Ohio State has a huge following - much bigger than Indiana does. Plus, Ohio State has Columbus, and maybe Cleveland and Cincinnati. What does Indiana have? Indianapolis? How much of the Indianapolis market is split with Purdue and Notre Dame? Ohio State has a bigger following, and a bigger pool to pay its players. If you're a high school player, would you rather go to Ohio State and sit on the bench a couple of years and hopefully get some PT by Year 3, or go to Indiana and get some PT in Year 1? Before you answer, know that you can get $100,000 a year at Ohio State, or $15,000 a year at Indiana. And still before you answer, know that your parents have been working two jobs each to pay for you and your 3 siblings to share a 3-bedroom, 1-bathroom apartment.

2. You make a good point about shifting of power. I think I had assumed that the traditional powers might remain the good teams. But maybe Washington can pull in a bunch of resources from Seattle, or, like you said, Houston from Houston. I don't see a team like Alabama losing power and falling below Houston, but your example of Houston and Iowa State sounds plausible. I'll be telling my grandkids: "Yeah, only 20 years or so ago, Clemson used to own the ACC. Yeah, they consider .500 to be a "good" year. But they used to beat Boston College all the time. Nowadays, Boston College beats them like a drum. Did that cloud just laugh at me?"

The bolded statement is exactly the scenario I was thinking about. Good money now and maybe the NFL in 5 years or shit money now and maybe the NFL in 3 years? I don't see any downside to NIL for elite teams with a national following like OSU.

 

[Dryden]

 

[calibuck]

Can only opine about NIL and the Power 5. Guess that he who has the gold makes the rules. However, it appears that some of the 'lesser lights' are using NIL to their advantage, to hook some of the better players in. Same with Xfer portal. The lesser lights are roaming the portal lists and stocking up on players that are good, and looking for more PT or just a change (MSU, USC, etc). While the super powers are cherry picking specific needs (Bama, tOSU), NIL are allowing alums to do legally what has heretofore been illegal. If you stop to think that two years ago, if you bought a HS kid a meal, he'd be illegal to your team, and you'd be banned (if you got caught). Now, a kid gets a $200,000 automobile like it was a bag of popcorn. (or a Lambo). Can't help but think that the OL that keeps those guys alive resent the fact a tad. No wonder the NCAA president 'retired'.

 

[jwinslow]

Can only opine about NIL and the Power 5. Guess that he who has the gold makes the rules. However, it appears that some of the 'lesser lights' are using NIL to their advantage, to hook some of the better players in. Same with Xfer portal. The lesser lights are roaming the portal lists and stocking up on players that are good, and looking for more PT or just a change (MSU, USC, etc). While the super powers are cherry picking specific needs (Bama, tOSU), NIL are allowing alums to do legally what has heretofore been illegal. If you stop to think that two years ago, if you bought a HS kid a meal, he'd be illegal to your team, and you'd be banned (if you got caught). Now, a kid gets a $200,000 automobile like it was a bag of popcorn. (or a Lambo). Can't help but think that the OL that keeps those guys alive resent the fact a tad. No wonder the NCAA president 'retired'.

The NCAA president sat on his tax free deck chairs and didn't move a single one as it very predictably sank.

 

[cincibuck]

Here's my 2¢ worth:

1. Yeah I agree and the 4 conference winners are 4 teams in the CFPs. That would sure would simplify everything; but the math doesn't work.

Currently there are already 64 teams in the Power 5 (ACC = 14 + B1G = 14 + SEC = 14 + PAC12 = 12 + Big XII = 10). This doesn't even count the planned Big XII expansion in a couple years. Besides, who gets screwed to let Notre Dame in?.....

And you know that 65th team will be bitching like hell too......

2. If Ryan Day is right and it takes (at least) $13M NIL dollars a year to maintain a playoff competitive team year in and year out, you will probably see a definite separation of the haves and have nots with the Power 5 teams. I think you'll see only about 1/4 (maybe even less) of the current teams have the local businesses, alumni, and fan base to support that much annual NIL money for the long haul.

So much of this already falls under OBE - Overcome By Events. Give Notre Dame the choice: ACC, PAC 12, or Big 10 and then move on. The problem will remain the same. Within ten years of NIL Alabama, Georgia, LSU, Michigan, Ohio State, Penn State, Oklahoma, one of the Texas's, Notre Dame, and USC are all that will remain. a Ten team conference of "NFL Light." Inability on the part of the universities to govern themselves in 1906, failure to support the NCAA when members got out of line, acceptance of TV money, failure to act before NIL became a reality.

 

[Zurp]

So much of this already falls under OBE - Overcome By Events. Give Notre Dame the choice: ACC, PAC 12, or Big 10 and then move on. The problem will remain the same. Within ten years of NIL Alabama, Georgia, LSU, Michigan, Ohio State, Penn State, Oklahoma, one of the Texas's, Notre Dame, and USC are all that will remain. a Ten team conference of "NFL Light." Inability on the part of the universities to govern themselves in 1906, failure to support the NCAA when members got out of line, acceptance of TV money, failure to act before NIL became a reality.

I've thought about this, too. Let's say it becomes a 10-16 team conference of all of the "goodest" teams - the teams that "win" the NIL or whatever. So say each team plays 9 in-conference games, with a 2-game playoff or something. Maybe 3 or so out-of-conference "patsies" (the teams that didn't win the NIL game). Looking at the list of teams you listed (and any one of us would have listed the same teams), how many are going to be happy with 4-5 losses a year, on average? Some teams are going to lose 7 or 8 games some years. Is the NIL game going to be as easy when your team has 8 losses for each of the past 4 years? Will there be any kind of "life" to this conference? I mean, if one team is struggling in that conference, will they be booted in favor of the "have-not" team that is smashing all the other "have-nots"? And being a "have-not", how easy will the NIL game be, then?

 

[sparcboxbuck]

I've thought about this, too. Let's say it becomes a 10-16 team conference of all of the "goodest" teams - the teams that "win" the NIL or whatever. So say each team plays 9 in-conference games, with a 2-game playoff or something. Maybe 3 or so out-of-conference "patsies" (the teams that didn't win the NIL game). Looking at the list of teams you listed (and any one of us would have listed the same teams), how many are going to be happy with 4-5 losses a year, on average? Some teams are going to lose 7 or 8 games some years. Is the NIL game going to be as easy when your team has 8 losses for each of the past 4 years? Will there be any kind of "life" to this conference? I mean, if one team is struggling in that conference, will they be booted in favor of the "have-not" team that is smashing all the other "have-nots"? And being a "have-not", how easy will the NIL game be, then?

So, do something like relegation and promotion in soccer?

 

[Zurp]

So, do something like relegation and promotion in soccer?

Meh. Whatever they do, it'll be interesting watching it. It'll be MORE interesting reading message board posts about how "they" effed it all up. On the one hand, yeah, they'll probably fuck it up. On the other hand, there is nothing that can be done to keep everyone happy.

 

[cincibuck]

I've thought about this, too. Let's say it becomes a 10-16 team conference of all of the "goodest" teams - the teams that "win" the NIL or whatever. So say each team plays 9 in-conference games, with a 2-game playoff or something. Maybe 3 or so out-of-conference "patsies" (the teams that didn't win the NIL game). Looking at the list of teams you listed (and any one of us would have listed the same teams), how many are going to be happy with 4-5 losses a year, on average? Some teams are going to lose 7 or 8 games some years. Is the NIL game going to be as easy when your team has 8 losses for each of the past 4 years? Will there be any kind of "life" to this conference? I mean, if one team is struggling in that conference, will they be booted in favor of the "have-not" team that is smashing all the other "have-nots"? And being a "have-not", how easy will the NIL game be, then?

My guess is that a top power conference consisting of 10 or 12 teams will be like the NFL with one or two teams having 7 to 10 Wins, two teams with 3 to 4 wins and the rest hovering around 500.