Big Ten and other Conference Expansion

[Best Buckeye]

Indiana is already a member of the B10 and Rutgers isn't so I would prefer to have a team that would enhance us more than adding Rugers would.
We can't kick Indiana out even if we wanted to.
IMO Rutgers is a second level or maybe even third tier football program. When I think about what would happen to them in conference ... well I don't think it would be pretty, or advantageous.
There are plenty of schools that have good academics and better athletics.

 

[Muck]

Hmmmmm, if I'm not mistaken Indiana has the worst football record of any Division I school, worse than Rice, Vandy, Kentucky, Duke, Baylor and Northwestern... so to complain about Rutger's record seems a bit out of place.

Not at all.

Yes the Big10 has bottom dwellers...so what? Adding another one isn't going to benefit the conference.

 

[DaveyBoy]

I see no point in adding another farm belt/rust belt school. Iowa State and Missou make sense only from academic and geopgraphic points of view. they would add little to the TV deal.
........
As for Rutgers, do you want Vito Soprano for commish of the Big 10? I thought not.

Missouri would bring most of the St.Louis market and at least half the Kansas City market with it. Those combined would equal that of Detroit and exceed that of Minneapolis or Cleveland.

Although Gandolfini is a Rutgers alum, RU still has some strong appeal to it. The threat of a strong Rutgers suddenly splitting the CFB attention away from ND could make the Domers a bit nervous about not accepting this final opportunity (for a long time) to join the BT.

 

[Best Buckeye]

the Domers a bit nervous about not accepting this final opportunity (for a long time) to join the BT.[/[/SIZE]quote]
Now there's a reason to pick rutgers

 

[DaveyBoy]

the Domers a bit nervous about not accepting this final opportunity (for a long time) to join the BT.[/[/size]quote]
Now there's a reason to pick rutgers

admittedly a reach...but anything to get at the Domers is worthy of consideration

 

[cincibuck]

My point was not that Indiana or Northwestern should be kicked out because of their performance in years past, only that Rutger's past was no worse. As games with OOC bottom dwellers have shown, IU and NU are very weak football programs period... and with NU there's no basketball program to redeem the situation.

Both, however, have great fight songs, you just don't get to hear them played very often.

The East Coast love for the Domers is not about to be touched by Rutgers. It's a long established tie, cemented by religion, culture and the media. Hell, New Yorkers go to the Meadowlands to cheer for Notre Dame against Navy or Army! Forget patriotism or love for the underdog. It's incestuous.

 

[msj2487]

Hmmmmm, if I'm not mistaken Indiana has the worst football record of any Division I school, worse than Rice, Vandy, Kentucky, Duke, Baylor and Northwestern... so to complain about Rutger's record seems a bit out of place.

Point still stands though, as Rutger's is not much better, and in fact in the past 20 years Indiana has a 93-132-3 record, while Rutgers only has an 83-139-3 record. Not to mention, also, Indiana has the better bowl record of 2-3, while Rutgers is just 1-1 (both bowl appearances coming in the past two years for them).

If I were a Michigan fan I'd want to see Cincinnati in to split the state loyalities. I've heard fans from Illinois, Indiana and Michigan bitch about the fact that they have to deal with two conference schools while Ohio State has the place all to itself.

I would not want to see Cincinnati in the Big Ten, not because I don't want another team from Ohio in the Big Ten, but for the exact same reasons I don't want Rutgers in... not to mention, the black eyes their basketball program would bring with them.

I see no point in adding another farm belt/rust belt school. Iowa State and Missou make sense only from academic and geopgraphic points of view. they would add little to the TV deal.

I could see maybe Missouri to bring in the St. Louis market, but really Iowa State doesn't offer much of a value for the Big Ten in terms of football tradition. The only Big Ten team thats played Iowa State in the past 10 years is Iowa and Minnesota. Also Iowa State has never played Ohio State, Michigan, Penn State, or Indiana. For everyone else in the Big Ten, Iowa State has a losing record to:

- Northwestern is 7-1 vs. Iowa State (1956)
- Minnesota is 22-2-1 vs. Iowa State (1997)
- Michigan State is 2-0 vs. Iowa State (1948)
- Iowa is 34-15 vs. Iowa State (2006)
- Illinois is 3-2-1 vs. Iowa State (1969)
- Purdue is 1-0 vs. Iowa State (1895)
- Wisconsin is 7-0 vs. Iowa State (1993)

* () indicate the last time they played each other.

My concern is that Pitt doesn't stretch us in to the East Coast market the way Syracuse would. Syracuse brings excellent academics, the only "major" college in a huge market, restores a storied rivalry with Penn State and provides the conference with a school with strong programs in both high revenue mens sports, the cash cow for the whole conference.

As I look again, I believe Syracuse could fit into the Big Ten, but I don't think they'd leave their Big East basketball ties (maybe I'm wrong on this though), and again Syracuse in the past 10-15 years hasn't been all that great at football either.

 

[msj2487]

My point was not that Indiana or Northwestern should be kicked out because of their performance in years past, only that Rutger's past was no worse. As games with OOC bottom dwellers have shown, IU and NU are very weak football programs period... and with NU there's no basketball program to redeem the situation.

I don't see how you can argue that Northwestern is a weak football program, when they have about the same record in the past 20 years as Rutgers, as they've gone 85-143-3 with 5 bowl appearances (0-5), but also a share of 2 Big Ten titles, and recent wins over Ohio State (2004) and Michigan (2000, 1996, and 1995)

 

[ORD_Buckeye]

Ord says Pitt is highly rated academically, but I thought that was only with regard to Carnegie - Mellon, the Med school and some other programs. I thought it was a rather weak school w/regard to undergrads. Fill me in.

They're tied with us for USN&WR undergrad rankings.

As someone else mentioned, ND has good law and mba programs, but that's about as far as their national reputation for graduate and research goes.

 

[gbearbuck]

I'd have to see the numbers to make a "yes" call on expansion... I highly doubt the conference could add the needed revenue to warrent another team... The travel costs of each school would increase (all teams would need to travel) if another team was added (the farther away, the higher the cost)... plus the current rev. pot would have to be spit with one more team.

I still think ND is the only school that really makes sense... bring in extra tv rev. while not really increaseing the travel costs...

 

[Best Buckeye]

I dout that ND is going to pick to join. Their contract doesnt expire until 2011 does it ???
Besides I don't think they are that interested in joining

 

[Mike80]

As I look again, I believe Syracuse could fit into the Big Ten, but I don't think they'd leave their Big East basketball ties (maybe I'm wrong on this though), and again Syracuse in the past 10-15 years hasn't been all that great at football either.

It hasn't quite been 10 years yet, but they should be dominating the "new" Big East with the departures of teams like VT and Miami, but it hasn't happened.

Having that basketball program would be nice, but I, for one, don't want expansion of any kind.

 

[IronBuckI]

to have ND academics rated higher than Navy's is a joke. I'd dare to say that 75% of Navy students are in the top 5% of their HS graduating class.

ND is not a major grad school or research university......not by a mile. It's a fantastic undergrad school and has a great MBA and JD.....but so does Univeristy of Dayton

I really think this expansion will happen. Money is too big of a part of the equation going forward.....and you can only wring so much $ out of the current structure. Rutgers, Maryland, and possibly Syracuse would benefit us to the East.......Nebraska and Missouri would help us in the West. U of L helps us to the South. WVU and Pitt are good fits but are missing the big added $.

Personally, I think Rutgers and Maryland make the most sense. 3 years ago I think the BigTen could have pulled Maryland out of the ACC. I'm not so sure now. Rutgers is a good possibility.......their FB is getting better but would not be top tier in the BigTen for at least 5 years....if ever. The BB would be cellar dwelling too. But I think the fan base at RU would be patient.....they've waited this long to have a true winner.....

I suspect Rutgers will end up getting it.

As for Syracuse, they make some good sense to. But I think it would be a fall-back position in case Rutgers didn't go.

This is ALL under the assumption that ND doesn't accept an invitation......ND is the obvious choice.

Overall, a very good post. As for Rutgers being a cellar dweller in BB...well...they already are a cellar dweller in a conference that I consider to be a harder one to play in, and eventually pull yourself out of the cellar. The women's basketball team is a top 25 program...at least.

 

[AKAK]

The women's basketball team is a top 25 program...at least.

Simmer down, Imus.


This is quite an interesting thread... and after reading it... I'm convinced of what my gut told me at the beginning of this fiasco... that there isn't a good option to expand the big ten available... I honestly would consider adding The University of Our Lady (South Bend, IN)-- but they-- for very good reasons-- don't want to play... and none of these other schools make sense. Especially not just to boost revenue for (what I beleive to be) an ill-conceived sports network...

Delany is out of his mind, if you ask me. And... I don't remember any of the University Presidents asking him if they should add Penn State or not.

Every school is gauranteed what? 7 million of the revenues of this network? I think we should call all of them up, and see who really needs the money, and kick their asses out.

Besides... we'e talked about it ad nauseum... but... what happens when the ratings suck for everything but football and basketball? Delany going to ask the girls in the women's rifle matches to wear bikini's?

 

[sandgk]

Besides... we'e talked about it ad nauseum... but... what happens when the ratings suck for everything but football and basketball? Delany going to ask the girls in the women's rifle matches to wear bikini's?

Swedish Gun Girls anyone?