Big Ten and other Conference Expansion

[Mike80]

I agree with your take on Duke's view of the SEC, but at some point it may be there only real option. If the BIG takes some combo of UNC/UVA/GT, and the Big12 takes a few of the leftovers (FSU/Clemson), then the only two things left are the SEC and whatever conference is left from the leftovers of the Big East and ACC.

The SEC isn't going to settle for leftovers like Dook. If they feel the need to move, they'll be going after bigger fish.

Yeah if Dook isn't picked up by the Big Ten (and they likely won't be) and the ACC gets raided, they'll just stick it out in whatever comes together between the Big East and the ACC.

 

[Mrstickball]

Yeah if Dook isn't picked up by the Big Ten (and they likely won't be) and the ACC gets raided, they'll just stick it out in whatever comes together between the Big East and the ACC.

If I was Duke, I'd look into seeing if I could get in with the Catholic 7 that just jettisoned the Big East. Maybe I'm crazy for thinking that, but isn't Duke a private university?

 

[jlb1705]

If I was Duke, I'd look into seeing if I could get in with the Catholic 7 that just jettisoned the Big East. Maybe I'm crazy for thinking that, but isn't Duke a private university?

Yep, but Dook is Methodist. That wouldn't be a roadblock though. Those Catholic 7 schools don't have FBS football though, so that kind of move could lead to them dropping down to FCS.

 

[Buckeye737]

The SEC isn't going to settle for leftovers like Dook. If they feel the need to move, they'll be going after bigger fish.

I'm not 100% sure that Duke wouldn't be one of the SEC's top two picks, assuming they are picking from the ACC. There are only four ACC schools that would have any interest from the SEC.

1. UNC - the problem is UNC may not want the SEC
2. Virginia Tech - football and Virginia presence
3. Virginia - presence in Virginia
4. Duke - some NC presence and national fanbase in basketball.

Everyone else is a no-go.

5. Clemson - duplicate state
6. FSU - duplicate state
7. Miami - duplicate state
8. GT - duplicate state
9. Louisville - duplicate state
10. Pitt - unlikely
11. Syracuse - extremely unlikely
12. BC - extremely unlikely
13. Wake - NC presence, but extremely unlikely

 

[broken24]

I'm not 100% sure that Duke wouldn't be one of the SEC's top two picks, assuming they are picking from the ACC. There are only four ACC schools that would have any interest from the SEC.

1. UNC - the problem is UNC may not want the SEC
2. Virginia Tech - football and Virginia presence
3. Virginia - presence in Virginia
4. Duke - some NC presence and national fanbase in basketball.

Everyone else is a no-go.

5. Clemson - duplicate state
6. FSU - duplicate state
7. Miami - duplicate state
8. GT - duplicate state
9. Louisville - duplicate state
10. Pitt - unlikely
11. Syracuse - extremely unlikely
12. BC - extremely unlikely
13. Wake - NC presence, but extremely unlikely

You forgot about the Wolf Pack

 

[BuckTwenty]

I'm not 100% sure that Duke wouldn't be one of the SEC's top two picks, assuming they are picking from the ACC. There are only four ACC schools that would have any interest from the SEC.

1. UNC - the problem is UNC may not want the SEC
2. Virginia Tech - football and Virginia presence
3. Virginia - presence in Virginia
4. Duke - some NC presence and national fanbase in basketball.

Everyone else is a no-go.

5. Clemson - duplicate state
6. FSU - duplicate state
7. Miami - duplicate state
8. GT - duplicate state
9. Louisville - duplicate state
10. Pitt - unlikely
11. Syracuse - extremely unlikely
12. BC - extremely unlikely
13. Wake - NC presence, but extremely unlikely

I think this is pretty spot-on. I'd add NCST to that first tier above... likely at #3 or #4 of 5.

The SEC knows it's the shit in football, but they want to be the best conference at sports... period. SEC wants another basketball blue blood to go with Kentucky, but more importantly, wants a presence in North Carolina and Virginia (much like the B1G). UNC and Va Tech would be an absolute home run for them. It would also be the biggest move in the recent rounds of expansion if this were to happen.

Regarding Duke: Would the SEC offer Duke IF the B1G gets UNC, or would they go to NCST to get a presence in North Carolina? Bigger question is would the SEC consider going to 18 so they could have a Virginia school and both UNC and Duke. Biggest question is if Duke would even accept the offer if they were to get one. Part of me says, like Mike80 said, no way Duke would ever leave the ACC, even if it became a conglomeration of ACC & Big East schools (which, funny enough, it already has been for years), but part of me also thinks they would feel forced to join a spot on one of the future 4 super-conferences or be left out of the party.

 

[Bucknut24]

I think this is pretty spot-on. I'd add NCST to that first tier above... likely at #3 or #4 of 5.

The SEC knows it's the shit in football, but they want to be the best conference at sports... period. SEC wants another basketball blue blood to go with Kentucky, but more importantly, wants a presence in North Carolina and Virginia (much like the B1G). UNC and Va Tech would be an absolute home run for them. It would also be the biggest move in the recent rounds of expansion if this were to happen.

Regarding Duke: Would the SEC offer Duke IF the B1G gets UNC, or would they go to NCST to get a presence in North Carolina? Bigger question is would the SEC consider going to 18 so they could have a Virginia school and both UNC and Duke. Biggest question is if Duke would even accept the offer if they were to get one. Part of me says, like Mike80 said, no way Duke would ever leave the ACC, even if it became a conglomeration of ACC & Big East schools (which, funny enough, it already has been for years), but part of me also thinks they would feel forced to join a spot on one of the future 4 super-conferences or be left out of the party.

If B1G gets UNC they'll get Va Tech/NC ST

 

[Steve19]

Duke has an excellent business school, with several disciplines ranked in the top 3 worldwide. They have the largest corporate education business. From a research viewpoint, they would be a good catch for the B1G, academically.

 

[jlb1705]

I'm not 100% sure that Duke wouldn't be one of the SEC's top two picks, assuming they are picking from the ACC. There are only four ACC schools that would have any interest from the SEC.

1. UNC - the problem is UNC may not want the SEC
2. Virginia Tech - football and Virginia presence
3. Virginia - presence in Virginia
4. Duke - some NC presence and national fanbase in basketball.

Everyone else is a no-go.

5. Clemson - duplicate state
6. FSU - duplicate state
7. Miami - duplicate state
8. GT - duplicate state
9. Louisville - duplicate state
10. Pitt - unlikely
11. Syracuse - extremely unlikely
12. BC - extremely unlikely
13. Wake - NC presence, but extremely unlikely

You're assuming the only schools they'd have to choose from would be the ACC.

Besides, basketball doesn't drive this stuff (especially for the SEC where it's an afterthought outside of Lexington and Gainesville). Their resistance to add schools from within their footprint isn't about TV dollars - they make money off having a quality product that ESPN and CBS want to shell out for, not by widening their footprint and adding cable boxes. Instead the resistance comes mostly from current SEC programs that don't want to provide a platform for competitors in their own state, so Florida doesn't want FSU or Miami, South Carolina doesn't want Clemson, etc.

I'd bet the SEC twists the arm of an existing member to vote for a little brother school in the same state with a quality football program before they'd hold their collective noses and take a Dook. (I couldn't resist that one.)

 

[Muck]

I generally agree with 737 & Twenty here.

The SEC network/channel is on it's way & the conference wants product for said channel. Duke BB is a home run in that regard. Their BB games get better TV ratings than most FB games. The SEC also wants to try raise the perception of their academic shortcomings. Duke is a home run there as well. The SEC doesn't need FB brands right now and Duke checks all the boxes in the areas where they do have needs.

Furthermore, some of the SEC insiders & media types who closely follow the conference have said that UNC/Duke are their primary targets for 15 & 16, so there's definitely interest.

Also, the assumption that the SEC only has ACC schools from is a pretty solid one. What other options do they have? The only two schools from the BXII they would still be interested in (Texas & Okie) have vehemently said no on multiple occasions & they passed over the geographic fit (WVU). Nobody else in that conference has much value except maybe Kansas and there's no mutual interest there.

Outside of the ACC who else is a realistic target?

 

[Mike80]

I could see the SEC taking a serious look at Louisville, but after that, they have to be looking at the "current" ACC schools for new membership....

 

[VBSJ]

I wish I knew why Gene Smith is talking to anyone. I thought he'd generally hide for the remainder of his tenure (although he's very arrogant).

I honestly believe he'll get booed at public events for however long he remains at OSU.

 

[BuckTwenty]

Also, the assumption that the SEC only has ACC schools from is a pretty solid one. What other options do they have? The only two schools from the BXII they would still be interested in (Texas & Okie) have vehemently said no on multiple occasions & they passed over the geographic fit (WVU). Nobody else in that conference has much value except maybe Kansas and there's no mutual interest there.

Outside of the ACC who else is a realistic target?

Outside of Oklahoma and maybe Kansas, there really isn't another realistic target outside of the ACC. You'd be talking ND (contiguous state, but not realistic and they would have a lot of strings attached), Cincy (contiguous state and no strings, but nobody gives a shit about them)... that's about it. And correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe when the SEC and Big XII hammered out the "champions" bowl game, they mutually agreed not to poach schools from each other. And B1G teams have more to lose than gain by jumping to the SEC (i.e. CIC). For these reasons, the potential meltdown of the ACC has the college world watching patiently.

 

[Muck]

And correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe when the SEC and Big XII hammered out the "champions" bowl game, they mutually agreed not to poach schools from each other.

That is the first I have heard of that, interesting if true.

 

[VBSJ]

Does the SEC really have a say in conference expansion, as much as the fans think the conference does? The conference seems more reactionary to the Big Ten, with several moves.

I'm not talking about on-field performance, but: Big Ten starts a network, SEC starts a network.

Big Ten turns down Missouri, SEC adds Missouri (Texas A&M wasn't an option for B1G).

This is why I don't know if the SEC has their pick of any school, because it seems more reactionary to the Big Ten's moves.