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Big Ten and other Conference Expansion

Which Teams Should the Big Ten Add? (please limit to four selections)

  • Boston College

    Votes: 32 10.2%
  • Cincinnati

    Votes: 19 6.1%
  • Connecticut

    Votes: 6 1.9%
  • Duke

    Votes: 21 6.7%
  • Georgia Tech

    Votes: 55 17.6%
  • Kansas

    Votes: 46 14.7%
  • Maryland

    Votes: 67 21.4%
  • Missouri

    Votes: 90 28.8%
  • North Carolina

    Votes: 39 12.5%
  • Notre Dame

    Votes: 209 66.8%
  • Oklahoma

    Votes: 78 24.9%
  • Pittsburgh

    Votes: 45 14.4%
  • Rutgers

    Votes: 40 12.8%
  • Syracuse

    Votes: 18 5.8%
  • Texas

    Votes: 121 38.7%
  • Vanderbilt

    Votes: 15 4.8%
  • Virginia

    Votes: 47 15.0%
  • Virginia Tech

    Votes: 62 19.8%
  • Stay at 12 teams and don't expand

    Votes: 27 8.6%
  • Add some other school(s) not listed

    Votes: 25 8.0%

  • Total voters
    313
Welcome MissouriFan,

Thanks for the info on Mizzou. No one is saying that they're not worthy for Big Ten membership. I think they, along with Texas, are the only two B12 schools that are.

One question. Does Mizzou have a strong club hockey program and would they be able to make the jump to a D1 program if the Big Ten were to form a hockey conference?
 
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ORD_Buckeye;1619333; said:
What I think it means is that the Big Ten, regardless of what the mass public's perception of it might be, is not just an athletic association. Through the CIC (which also includes Chicago who I didn't include in the rankings) is an active academic research consortium.

It means that we coordinate on several matters including faculty collaboration, securing research funding, ability for doctoral candidates to spend time on other CIC campuses working with their faculty and so on.

To admit a member that would not add to this activity, much less might actually drag it down, would be a huge mistake. Sure part of it is pride, but part of it is also a consideration of how much effort and valuable resources that could be better directed elsewhere would need to be spent getting the new member up to CIC standards.

In the case of Notre Dame--contingent upon a firm commitment from administration and faculty to make these changes--the big picture probably makes it a good decision. In the case of pretender schools like UC or West Virginia or Louisville, who don't bring Notre Dame's undergrad reputation, financial resources, football program or Olympic sports, it would essentially undercut and dilute the CIC's reputation. That also doesn't mean we should kick out IU or whomever happens to be at the bottom of any particular list. After all, being at the bottom of the Big Ten still puts you in the top quarter of almost any other athletic conference. It means that we shouldn't invite in a school that is completely beneath the CIC's standard.
Thanks for the explanation on "the CIC's standard", which obviously is as important as any football considerations.

ORD_Buckeye;1620870; said:
Welcome MissouriFan,

Thanks for the info on Mizzou. No one is saying that they're not worthy for Big Ten membership. I think they, along with Texas, are the only two B12 schools that are.

One question. Does Mizzou have a strong club hockey program and would they be able to make the jump to a D1 program if the Big Ten were to form a hockey conference?
Besides Texas and Missouri, the other Big 12 schools in the AAU are Iowa State, Kansas, and Nebraska. Why would those schools be unacceptable to the CIC? Nebraska would be especially attractive as a football school.

In terms of expansion, everyone has been talking about adding one school, but why not add three? For example:

Big Ten East
1. Ohio State
2. Michigan
3. Michigan State
4. Penn State
5. Pittsburgh
6. Indiana
7. Purdue

Big Ten West
1. Illinois
2. Northwestern
3. Wisconsin
4. Minnesota
5. Iowa
6. Missouri
7. Nebraska

The balance of power is still probably in the East, but Nebraska and Missouri would really help to solidify the West.
 
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LordJeffBuck;1620890; said:
In terms of expansion, everyone has been talking about adding one school, but why not add three? For example:

Interesting idea. My problem with a 14-team conference is that you'd typically want each time to play every team in its division, and then make up the rest of the schedule with teams in the opposite division. In a 12-team conference, you play 5 games in-division, and 3 of the 6 teams out-of-division. Theoretically, you play every team in the conference every other year. Or maybe they alternate so that they might go 2 years without playing some teams, but then they play them in back-to-back years.

In the 14-team conference, you'd play all 6 teams in-division, and then only 2 of the out-of-division teams. It would take a team 4 years to play each of the teams in the other division. It's almost like 2 different conferences.

I may be wrong about this. I think the MAC used to be 14 teams. How did they work out the scheduling? One way to fix this is to only play 5 teams in-division, and miss playing 1 of them, and play 3 out-of-division games. The problem with this is that 2 teams in the same division can finish undefeated. Another way to fix it is to go to a 9-game conference schedule, and play the 6 in-division games, and 3 out-of-division games. It would still take a team 3 years to play every team in the other division, though.
 
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LordJeffBuck;1620890; said:
Besides Texas and Missouri, the other Big 12 schools in the AAU are Iowa State, Kansas, and Nebraska. Why would those schools be unacceptable to the CIC? Nebraska would be especially attractive as a football school.

I agree with you that Nebraska meets the minimum CIC criteria, and is clearly a strong choice from a football perspective. My feeling, however, is that the B10 Presidents and faculties don't want to merely settle for an adequate CIC member. I think they want to hit something of a home run with this. Notre Dame (from an undergraduate perspective currently and a potential graduate/research perspective) certainly fits this bill as would Texas in all areas. Pitt and Syracuse wouldn't necessarily be home runs, but they would immediately land somewhere in the middle of the Big Ten academically.

Syracuse is kind of my dark horse candidate that might surprise a lot of people. There are some substantial arguments against them, but at least to my thinking, they have that elusive "it" factor: NYC media market, a second private U. for the conference, strong basketball, great--albeit dormant--football tradition, natural for a D1 hockey program.
 
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ORD_Buckeye;1620913; said:
Syracuse is kind of my dark horse candidate that might surprise a lot of people. There are some substantial arguments against them, but at least to my thinking, they have that elusive "it" factor: NYC media market, a second private U. for the conference, strong basketball, great--albeit dormant--football tradition, natural for a D1 hockey program.
Syracuse is almost 250 miles from NYC. Not exactly "in the market".
 
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It's important to keep in mind that football team quality comes in a distant third in evaluating potential additional members for the Big Ten:

1. Academic quality consistent with the goals of the CIC

2. Media market through which to expand the value of the Big Ten Network and by extension, the value of the conference overall to its member institutions.

3. Football team quality consistent with existing teams.

Syracuse and Rutgers would be the favored institutions IMO if they were interested. Though Mizzou has outstanding compatibility with the Big Ten academically, the added value of Kansas City and St. Louis markets in comparison to metro NYC just doesn't compute.

IMO the conference will make overtures first to Rutgers, then to Syracuse. If those institutions decline to join the Big Ten, then and only then would midwestern universities such as Mizzou or Nebraska be invited. Pittsburgh, though I love and respect the school, is a non-starter IMO because it brings essentially nothing to the table from a media market perspective.

Texas is the wild card. I don't see them being interested in joining us if only because they are the primary Big Dog in the Big 12 conference, and they reap the rewards accordingly. But if they had an interest, I personally would favor them over any alternative. Texas media market is huge, and UT is probably the most prestigious academically of any of the potential new members we are discussing here. They have a halfway decent football program, too. :wink2:
 
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JCOSU86;1620915; said:
Syracuse is almost 250 miles from NYC. Not exactly "in the market".

True, but from a media perspective and alumni base, I think they would become even more dominant as "New York City's college team."Keep in mind that NYC is always going to be first and foremost a pro sports city. I don't ever see New York becoming another Chicago with college flags hanging outside the multiple "alumni bars" all over the North Side.
 
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JXC;1620413; said:
Right...their CCG didn't hurt them. But i'm wanting you to find where CCGs have helped teams get in. LSU is one I will give you. But I have listed a bunch more that it hurt.

Why concede LSU, when they wouldn't have made it to #2 without Mizzou losing in the Big 12 CCG? One CCG loser was replaced by a CCG winner, the net effect of the CCG particiapants was even.
 
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Zurp;1620912; said:
Interesting idea. My problem with a 14-team conference is that you'd typically want each time to play every team in its division, and then make up the rest of the schedule with teams in the opposite division. In a 12-team conference, you play 5 games in-division, and 3 of the 6 teams out-of-division. Theoretically, you play every team in the conference every other year. Or maybe they alternate so that they might go 2 years without playing some teams, but then they play them in back-to-back years.

In the 14-team conference, you'd play all 6 teams in-division, and then only 2 of the out-of-division teams. It would take a team 4 years to play each of the teams in the other division. It's almost like 2 different conferences.
In a 14-team conference with two 7-team divisions, each team plays six games within its division, three games against teams in the other division, and three games against out of conference opponents. That way, each team in one division would have a home-away series with every team in the other division at least every five years. Maybe not ideal, but not too bad, either.

The PAC-10 teams play nine in-conference games and three OOC games, so there is a precedent for playing only three OOC games every year.

Alternatively, each team could play six games within its division, four games against teams in the other division, and two games against out of conference opponents. way, each team in one division would have a home-away series with every team in the other division at least every four years.

Back in the good old days, Ohio State often played only two non-conference games every year. Three OOC games became the norm in 1974, and four OOC games did not become standard until 2006. Non-conference games are generally a waste of time, unless it is a quality match-up like Southern Cal, Miami, Oklahoma, Tennessee, etc. Games against MAC schools are nothing more than glorified scrimmages, and there's no reason for Ohio State to play three scrimmages every year. So, I'd be in favor of reducing the number of non-conference games and expanding the number of conference games, even without Big Ten expansion.

ORD_Buckeye;1620913; said:
I agree with you that Nebraska meets the minimum CIC criteria, and is clearly a strong choice from a football perspective. My feeling, however, is that the B10 Presidents and faculties don't want to merely settle for an adequate CIC member. I think they want to hit something of a home run with this. Notre Dame (from an undergraduate perspective currently and a potential graduate/research perspective) certainly fits this bill as would Texas in all areas. Pitt and Syracuse wouldn't necessarily be home runs, but they would immediately land somewhere in the middle of the Big Ten academically.

Syracuse is kind of my dark horse candidate that might surprise a lot of people. There are some substantial arguments against them, but at least to my thinking, they have that elusive "it" factor: NYC media market, a second private U. for the conference, strong basketball, great--albeit dormant--football tradition, natural for a D1 hockey program.
I'd be for Syracuse or Pitt ... or Syracuse and Pitt. I still think that, from a purely football perspective, the Big 10 would need to add at least one real football power in the west, whether that be Notre Dame, Missouri, or Nebraska, or (preferably) some combination thereof. Having three marquee programs in the east (Ohio State, Michigan, and Penn State) and none in the west would make for a really unbalanced conference. And I don't even want to consider some haphazard arrangement like the ACC, where Miami and Florida State were placed in separate divisions in an attempt to create conference balance at the expense of geographic rivalries.
 
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ORD_Buckeye;1620870; said:
Welcome MissouriFan,

Thanks for the info on Mizzou. No one is saying that they're not worthy for Big Ten membership. I think they, along with Texas, are the only two B12 schools that are.

One question. Does Mizzou have a strong club hockey program and would they be able to make the jump to a D1 program if the Big Ten were to form a hockey conference?

To be honest hockey is the one sport I can't ever seem to get into so I'm not sure how good our club team is or how far away from D1 they are but here is a link to their website.
Mizzou Hockey
 
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MaxBuck;1620919; said:
IMO the conference will make overtures first to Rutgers, then to Syracuse. If those institutions decline to join the Big Ten, then and only then would midwestern universities such as Mizzou or Nebraska be invited. Pittsburgh, though I love and respect the school, is a non-starter IMO because it brings essentially nothing to the table from a media market perspective.
I agree that we would probably make overtures to the two schools in the East but only because of Penn State. I think they would squawk if we would try to go West before asking some of the schools from the East who meet the criteria.
 
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CleveBucks;1620754; said:
Welcome to BP.

If ND wasn't interested, Mizzou would be the next one on my list. Two new media markets, large state school, member of the AAU. Footall team has the chance to be on par with an Iowa or Wisconsin which is realistically about as good as any candidate would bring to the table.

Can you tell me why all the Big 12 schools put the U at the end of their abbreviation? MU, OU, KU, CU, etc? Could never figure that out.

It's an old Big Eight thing.

MU, NU, KU, OU, CU, ISU, OSU, KSU.

I'm not sure why they did it that way but I like that the whole league did it.
 
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LordJeffBuck;1620934; said:
I'd be for Syracuse or Pitt ... or Syracuse and Pitt. I still think that, from a purely football perspective, the Big 10 would need to add at least one real football power in the west, whether that be Notre Dame, Missouri, or Nebraska, or (preferably) some combination thereof. Having three marquee programs in the east (Ohio State, Michigan, and Penn State) and none in the west would make for a really unbalanced conference. And I don't even want to consider some haphazard arrangement like the ACC, where Miami and Florida State were placed in separate divisions in an attempt to create conference balance at the expense of geographic rivalries.

How about this:
Big Ten North
Michigan
Michigan State
Penn State
Wiscy
Minny
NW

Big Ten South
Ohio State
Texas: ooc schedule of a&m (would need to be moved to beginning of year), Oklahoma and 2 mid majors at home
IU
Illinois
Pudue
Iowa

Locked in Rivalry Week Games before the B10 Championship Game
Ohio State-Michigan (if there's a rematch next week so be it.)
Penn State-Michigan State
Wiscy-Minny
Illinois-Northwestern
IU-Purdue
Texas-Iowa

Attempt to have one weekend in late September/early October when the four traditional B10 powers all play a major OOC game with national implications and that focuses the nation's attention on The Big Ten.
Michigan-Notre Dame
Texas-Oklahoma
Ohio State and Penn State have rotating home-and-aways with USC, Miami, Alabama etc.
 
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