Big Ten and other Conference Expansion

[Mike80]

Oh, I don't think it will be Notre Dame either, but I think anyone that says they are worse academically than Missouri, Syracuse, Rutgers, etc. is mistaken. I personally would like to see them in the Big Ten because I think it would be a quality addition both athletically and academically and it would be fun to play them every year. I know it's not going to happen though.

But as a WHOLE they ARE academically inferior to the rest of the Big Ten.

 

[jwinslow]

But as a WHOLE they ARE academically inferior to the rest of the Big Ten.

If the Domers get it turned around and ask to join the b10, I have a hard time seeing them say no.

 

[buckiprof]

Oh, I don't think it will be Notre Dame either, but I think anyone that says they are worse academically than Missouri, Syracuse, Rutgers, etc. is mistaken. I personally would like to see them in the Big Ten because I think it would be a quality addition both athletically and academically and it would be fun to play them every year. I know it's not going to happen though.

You keep posting the same basic message and I wonder if you have read any of the replies. Academically comes in two different areas: undergraduate and graduate.

ND is an excellent undergraduate institution. ND flat out sucks as a graduate institution. That is exactly why when ND was approached the last time to join the Big Ten that the vote done by the university presidents wasn't even close to unanimous. Big Ten university presidents were quite concerned by the pathetic state of graduate school at ND.

Also I have a brother-in-law who went to ND as an undergraduate (and he is a die-hard domer) then went to University of Chicago for medical school and ended up at OSU for his residency. It is hard to get him to ever say anything remotely negative about ND, but he has consistently said that ND's graduate program sucks. A quote that has stuck with me through the years is, "ND's graduate school is an embarrassment to the words 'graduate school'"

I tend to dabble in the academia area and let me assure you that as of right now, ND is not a quality addition to the Big Ten academically solely because they have a pathetic graduate school. Great undergraduate program, but poor graduate program does not make a quality addition.

 

[buckiprof]

If the Domers get it turned around and ask to join the b10, I have a hard time seeing them say no.

I completely agree with this. In fact, I would go as far to say that if ND gets the graduate area at least moving in the right direction and they asked to join, it is a slam dunk that they are in.

 

[Mike80]

If the Domers get it turned around and ask to join the b10, I have a hard time seeing them say no.

If they get it turned around, certainly.

But have they shown any inclination to turn it around? I don't think they have, but I could be mistaken.

 

[jwinslow]

If they get it turned around, certainly.

But have they shown any inclination to turn it around? I don't think they have, but I could be mistaken.

If they get to Georgia level (8-10 wins per year, win the conf once or twice a decade), I think it's worth it.

 

[ORD_Buckeye]

Notre Dame is still better than Rutgers, Syracuse, and Missouri and would still be near the top of the Big Ten academically, and to deny that is foolish.

FOR UNDERGRAD! No one denies that Notre Dame is extremely selective and highly ranked as an undergraduate college. It, however, is lacking in the other three areas that make up a great, comprehensive university: research, faculty and doctoral programs.

Don't take my word for it. Take the word of Notre Dame's own faculty senate who voted 34-2 to join the Big Ten because it's been their long term dream to get into the CIC and use collaboration with Big Ten universities as a means of upgrading their faculty recruitment, doctoral programs and research capapbilities with an ultimate eye on getting an invitation to the 60 member Association of American Universities of which all 11 Big Ten universities are long term members (Ohio State since 1916).

That Notre Dame's undergraduate reputation is so strong is why it's the only candidate for Big Ten membership that is not already an AAU member.

 

[Electron Boy]

i don't like notre dame, but is it weird for me to wonder why it seems like some people are so vehemently against ND joining the big ten? their relatively weak graduate program can't be the only reason why some of you dudes are against it. if they wanted to join, i can't think of a serious, legitimate reason why they shouldn't. the positives of them joining far, far outweigh the negatives.

this is all moot anyway because they aren't gonna join anytime soon, but it's just weird for me to people get so up in arms about ND

 

[Mike80]

i don't like notre dame, but is it weird for me to wonder why it seems like some people are so vehemently against ND joining the big ten? their relatively weak graduate program can't be the only reason why some of you dudes are against it. if they wanted to join, i can't think of a serious, legitimate reason why they shouldn't. the positives of them joining far, far outweigh the negatives.

this is all moot anyway because they aren't gonna join anytime soon, but it's just weird for me to people get so up in arms about ND

If it were only about football, I'd be for it.

But you have to think about it in the context of WHO will allow them into the Big Ten. It won't be the football coaches or the fans, it'll be the University Presidents...therefore, their relatively weak graduate programs are in play to a certain extent.

As I said earlier though, the Big Ten as a conference in a business. They obviously want a 12th member for those cash-grab conference title games, probably hosted either at Ford Field or Lucas Oil Stadium.

 

[jwinslow]

Ignoring the rivalry & weak conf problems with the thing, an Indy game would be great.

 

[Electron Boy]

If it were only about football, I'd be for it.

But you have to think about it in the context of WHO will allow them into the Big Ten. It won't be the football coaches or the fans, it'll be the University Presidents...therefore, their relatively weak graduate programs are in play to a certain extent.

As I said earlier though, the Big Ten as a conference in a business. They obviously want a 12th member for those cash-grab conference title games, probably hosted either at Ford Field or Lucas Oil Stadium.

i'm not saying it wouldn't, but i guess the question i'm asking isn't why people don't think ND would be able join the big ten, but why people don't think it should. the relatively weak graduate program really isn't a good overall reason to prevent ND from joining the big ten, whether that would be one of the reasons the presidents would offer up or not.

 

[Mike80]

i'm not saying it wouldn't, but i guess the question i'm asking isn't why people don't think ND would be able join the big ten, but why people don't think it should. the relatively weak graduate program really isn't a good overall reason to prevent ND from joining the big ten, whether that would be one of the reasons the presidents would offer up or not.

Sure it is....because those University Presidents will be making the decision. What we say here doesn't matter a damn bit in the process.

And after Ntre Ame rebuffed the Big Ten the first time, I'm thinking they'll make Ntre Ame come up to their standard (to a certain extent) instead of accepting them as they are currently.

And this is all assuming that Ntre Ame is even being looked at - if they are pushing to get a 12th team in the conference immediately, it likely won't be Ntre Ame for at least a couple of years, depending on that TV contract with NBC...

 

[Electron Boy]

Sure it is....because those University Presidents will be making the decision. What we say here doesn't matter a damn bit in the process.

And after Ntre Ame rebuffed the Big Ten the first time, I'm thinking they'll make Ntre Ame come up to their standard (to a certain extent) instead of accepting them as they are currently.

And this is all assuming that Ntre Ame is even being looked at - if they are pushing to get a 12th team in the conference immediately, it likely won't be Ntre Ame for at least a couple of years, depending on that TV contract with NBC...

i realize that what we say here doesn't matter, but let me put it this way: let's say in all likelihood ND would be approved by the presidents. would you support or oppose it?

my point with this is that i think most people who don't want ND in the big ten aren't against it because they feel that the presidents would object to their weak graduate program or some other such thing.

 

[Mike80]

i realize that what we say here doesn't matter, but let me put it this way: let's say in all likelihood ND would be approved by the presidents. would you support or oppose it?

my point with this is that i think most people who don't want ND in the big ten aren't against it because they feel that the presidents would object to their weak graduate program or some other such thing.

You're talking from a purely sports-centric view of the situation.

Given that view, hell yes I'd support it. that would give the Big Ten the best combination of fan base, tradition and "Q-rating" of any conference in college sports.

But it really doesn't come down to sports at all, not at this time.

 

[Electron Boy]

You're talking from a purely sports-centric view of the situation.

Given that view, hell yes I'd support it. that would give the Big Ten the best combination of fan base, tradition and "Q-rating" of any conference in college sports.

But it really doesn't come down to sports at all, not at this time.

you're right, the sports thing is really the only aspect of it i was wondering about. i guess i just feel like a lot of people's dislike for ND would prevent them from wanting them in the conference no matter what the circumstances