Big Ten and other Conference Expansion

[Woody1968]

It's a bar. What else are they going to put on the TVs? The true measure here (and where there may or may not be money to be made) is in home televisions.

Not in New York City. People simply do not watch TV here like they do in the rest of the country.

 

[Woody1968]

Meh, I'd take the cavs. They have better colors, better campus, better girls...oh and the academics make WVU's look like a JUCO.

I went to UVA. Beyond soccer, the sports programs suck. The girls ARE hot though.

 

[jlb1705]

Not in New York City. People simply do not watch TV here like they do in the rest of the country.

And that's why the argument fails. If people don't watch TV (and by extension, college football) the same way in NYC as they do in the rest of the country, then where is the revenue going to come from for the BTN? The money is paid to them in pennies, nickels and dimes per subscription - multiply that by the number of bars in NYC and you have a relative pittance. In order for NYC to be a viable market, the BTN would need people to want it in their homes.

 

[knapplc]

And that's why the argument fails. If people don't watch TV (and by extension, college football) the same way in NYC as they do in the rest of the country, then where is the revenue going to come from for the BTN? The money is paid to them in pennies, nickels and dimes per subscription - multiply that by the number of bars in NYC and you have a relative pittance. In order for NYC to be a viable market, the BTN would need people to want it in their homes.

I'm no Muck when it comes to knowing things (and who is?) but does it matter if people want the BTN in their homes? If it's on their cable lineup, isn't the BTN getting those nickels whether folks watch it or not?

 

[Woody1968]

And that's why the argument fails. If people don't watch TV (and by extension, college football) the same way in NYC as they do in the rest of the country, then where is the revenue going to come from for the BTN? The money is paid to them in pennies, nickels and dimes per subscription - multiply that by the number of bars in NYC and you have a relative pittance. In order for NYC to be a viable market, the BTN would need people to want it in their homes.

It's already on Time Warner, which is NYC's biggest cable provider, and the cable market here isn't even the topic of debate. You responded to my post, which was in reply to Muck's post that said that the television ratings proved that:

"New Yorkers just don't give a shit about college football and Rutgers vs whoever isn't going to change that"

Ratings, in fact, do not tell the whole story.

 

[Woody1968]

I'm no Muck when it comes to knowing things (and who is?) but does it matter if people want the BTN in their homes? If it's on their cable lineup, isn't the BTN getting those nickels whether folks watch it or not?

Short Answer: Yes.

Time Warner has it as part of the sports pass, which is like 6 bucks a month.

 

[knapplc]

Short Answer: Yes.

Time Warner has it as part of the sports pass, which is like 6 bucks a month.

Except that BTN strong-arms TWC and every other carrier to put the BTN on a common tier, not on a special tier, in their local markets. I understand it happens later in markets that aren't as passionate about football as Nebraska (we're getting BTN on the most basic tier in a week, before we ever play a game on the BTN), but it happens eventually.

 

[jlb1705]

I'm no Muck when it comes to knowing things (and who is?) but does it matter if people want the BTN in their homes? If it's on their cable lineup, isn't the BTN getting those nickels whether folks watch it or not?

Sure, it matters. It has an effect on the rate the BTN could demand and whether or not the providers would be willing to carry it in the first place. If a cable provider wanted to hold out and/or try to drive down the rate, the only thing to get them to soften their stance would be the demands of customers and the threat of switching to the competition.

 

[knapplc]

Sure, it matters. It has an effect on the rate the BTN could demand and whether or not the providers would be willing to carry it in the first place. If a cable provider wanted to hold out and/or try to drive down the rate, the only thing to get them to soften their stance would be the demands of customers and the threat of switching to the competition.

That's fine in theory, but can we name a Big Ten market where the BTN is not in the top tier on TWC? Or on the primary cable provider?

My understanding was that Nebraska would be the last market not to offer the BTN on its basic tiers, but even here TWC caved in (about three weeks ago) and all the other local providers fell like dominoes as a result.

 

[jlb1705]

It's already on Time Warner, which is NYC's biggest cable provider, and the cable market here isn't even the topic of debate. You responded to my post, which was in reply to Muck's post that said that the television ratings proved that:

"New Yorkers just don't give a shit about college football and Rutgers vs whoever isn't going to change that"

Ratings, in fact, do not tell the whole story.

I agree that ratings do not tell the whole story. After all, even here in the midwest where it's on almost every basic cable package, the ratings are probably dreadful for all but a handfull of afternoons and evenings every year. That's why I framed it in terms of the cable market and gaining subscribers. After all, that's a big part of how the BTN gets paid.

 

[Woody1968]

Sure, it matters. It has an effect on the rate the BTN could demand and whether or not the providers would be willing to carry it in the first place. If a cable provider wanted to hold out and/or try to drive down the rate, the only thing to get them to soften their stance would be the demands of customers and the threat of switching to the competition.

Obviously if Rutgers or Syracuse were selected, there would be a full on marketing push (hype-machine) to create demand. This would be unnecessary with Notre Dame.

 

[jlb1705]

That's fine in theory, but can we name a Big Ten market where the BTN is not in the top tier on TWC? Or on the primary cable provider?

That's in no small part because the customers in those markets demand it. It's not as if the Big Ten showed up in Nebraska and suddenly you all started caring about college football enough to demand a niche cable network to view it. I think that's a bit of what would have to happen in NYC.

If Time Warner hadn't caved in Nebraska, would it have been a shitstorm? If everything I know about you folks is true, you wouldn't have tolerated a single game not being available. Would anything close to the same hold true in New York? I doubt it.

 

[NateG]

If NoD joined, wouldn't that open the door for the B1G to NBC? And is BTN on Comcast?

 

[knapplc]

That's in no small part because the customers in those markets demand it. It's not as if the Big Ten showed up in Nebraska and suddenly you all started caring about college football enough to demand a niche cable network to view it. I think that's a bit of what would have to happen in NYC.

If Time Warner hadn't caved in Nebraska, would it have been a shitstorm? If everything I know about you folks is true, you wouldn't have tolerated a single game not being available. Would anything close to the same hold true in New York? I doubt it.

It caved in Nebraska because the storm arrived quite a bit earlier than TWC expected. From what I understand there were dozens of calls daily either dropping TWC or threatening to drop them if they missed airing the Tennessee-Chattanooga opener on "regular" cable. From the woman I talked to when I made my call threatening to drop them, they were "buried" in those kinds of calls. So yeah, we're a bit more avid than most, and probably quite a bit more than New Yorkers.

BUT, didn't cable companies (and specifically TWC) pull shenanigans elsewhere, and eventually caved in to demand both from the public and BTN itself? I'm pretty new to the BTN so again correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the network pretty good at exerting pressure and getting their way?

I believe that within a year they'd have their way in the New York market, and those nickels would be rolling in.

But this is all academic anyway, since like most everyone else I'm unimpressed with Rutgers and/or Syracuse as expansion targets, because although they may deliver the New York TV market eventually, they're niche teams, not national brands. The Big Ten needs to look at nationally branded teams like they got with Nebraska, who can deliver eyeballs from Poughkeepsie to Albuquerque, Walla Walla to West Palm Beach. That isn't any team in the NE quadrant of the States.

 

[Mrstickball]

I'd carve out the best of the rest in the Big-IIX and then shop for a few decent Midwest/east schools to round out the conference.

We really need mid to top tier teams to make the conference better. I could stomach one or at most two more mid-tier teams, but you need at least two more top-tier teams to make a 16-team conference attractive, and balance out the divisions again. Therefore, you'd need to add two teams like Oklahoma, Notre Dame, or arguably an A&M before you consider the next rung such as Missouri, Syracuse, Va. Tech, Virginia or Maryland....Or what about Kansas? Imagine the basketball!