Big Ten and other Conference Expansion

[jwinslow]

The pod system has received a lot of big ten consideration, but more for handling a 16 team superconference.

 

[TheIronColonel]

I think there's a compelling argument to be made in favor of the pod system with 4 3 team pods with an eye toward later expansion.

 

[jlb1705]

I think six 2-team pods is the way to go.

 

[TooTall]

Nice piece...

 

[Woody1968]

Maryland would be interested in the huge academic perks of the big ten.

They also could easily lose some of their premiere teams to the SEC, and with the recent drama they may prefer to hump to the rich stable conference rather then sitting on their hands waiting to be left in a decimated conference. so your reasons for why that area would not be interested in big ten additions like maryland or uva is that they only watch maryland, uva and washington pro sports? That is one strange and self defeating argument.
you seem to be misunderstanding how the marketing works. Their primary purpose is to broadcast the local big ten team, with a minor value for the occasional fringe viewership for osu, mich or a premiere game.

They do not have to win over subscribers to get paid, they simply need to offer a product in an area with enough intwrest to get it placed on basic cable.

They arent in competition with espn or major sports networks. They are competing with the fox sports regional channels, which dont have a strong national appeal either.

Those core ACC programs will stick together imo. The DC area carried Georgia Tech vs. Clemson one year and bumped OSU/Mich to ESPN Gameplan. The ACC does care about their football, despite being thought of as a basketball conference. I don't know why they haven't ditched comcast and started their own network already. I have no doubt it would sell down there.

I have seen scenarios where the SEC will try and take Virginia and Va Tech, along with one or two North Carolina teams. Not going to happen. Virginia, UNC and Duke would never go for it because they are too snooty, and Va Tech is happy to be in a conference with Virginia. Better chance for Clemson and Georgia Tech, whose rivals play in the SEC already.

 

[Oh8ch]

Better chance for Clemson and Georgia Tech, whose rivals play in the SEC already.

A lot of folks are talking about how teams like these would be natural fits in conferences where they already have in state rivalries. Same for Miami and FSU joining Florida in the SEC.

I think just the opposite is true. Florida wants no part of Miami in the same conference. Right now they have the recruiting edge in Florida because UF is the only in state school that gets you to the SEC. Same for Georgia and USC.

At the conference level I would see the same concern. Bring in Virginia and UNC and you open up two more states for recruiting and TV ratings. Not so with any of the schools mentioned above.

Recruiting is one area where Nebraska does not help the Big Ten. Nobody is going to Nebraska to find talent. And shifting your schedule from Texas and Oklahoma to Illinois and Iowa may not to retain the interest of kids from the Southwest. More likely Nebraska will shift its focus to the Midwest and create more competition for existing recruits.

I like Nebraska, but it doesn't accomplish any of the broader goals Delany is after.

 

[cincibuck]

Maryland would be interested in the huge academic perks of the big ten.

They also could easily lose some of their premiere teams to the SEC, and with the recent drama they may prefer to hump to the rich stable conference rather then sitting on their hands waiting to be left in a decimated conference. so your reasons for why that area would not be interested in big ten additions like maryland or uva is that they only watch maryland, uva and washington pro sports? That is one strange and self defeating argument.
you seem to be misunderstanding how the marketing works. Their primary purpose is to broadcast the local big ten team, with a minor value for the occasional fringe viewership for osu, mich or a premiere game.

They do not have to win over subscribers to get paid, they simply need to offer a product in an area with enough intwrest to get it placed on basic cable.

They arent in competition with espn or major sports networks. They are competing with the fox sports regional channels, which dont have a strong national appeal either.

In the end it may just come down to bucks and not wanting to stand pat, but I think the ACC schools get swallowed up whole if they go with any league other than perhaps offering a helping hand to the core schools of the Big East, Syracuse, Rutgers, U Conn, Pitt, +/- WVA. that combo would probably fit in nicely with the ACC, especially if they could shed FSU and Miami.

I've felt throughout this discussion that some of these 16 team conglomerations just don't make sense because the fit -- as opposed to the money-- just isn't there.

I had very mixed emotions about adding Texas from a "fit" point of view. No doubt it made a ton of cents/sense from the TV/research side.

I thought the Pac 10 move made more sense to Texas, Texas A&M, T-tech and to the Pac 10. Added to ASU, Az, USC and UCLA, it gave a strong regional appeal and gave the Pac 10 the East Coast media window they need.

Adding Big East teams to the Big 10 seems to make a bit of sense, but again it feels to me like a forced fit, doing something to spite Notre Dame, when the cure to Notre Dame is clearly in the hands of the Big 10 -- simply drop them from the schedules unless or until they join.

 

[matcar]

A lot of folks are talking about how teams like these would be natural fits in conferences where they already have in state rivalries. Same for Miami and FSU joining Florida in the SEC.

I think just the opposite is true. Florida wants no part of Miami in the same conference. Right now they have the recruiting edge in Florida because UF is the only in state school that gets you to the SEC. Same for Georgia and USC.

At the conference level I would see the same concern. Bring in Virginia and UNC and you open up two more states for recruiting and TV ratings. Not so with any of the schools mentioned above.

Recruiting is one area where Nebraska does not help the Big Ten. Nobody is going to Nebraska to find talent. And shifting your schedule from Texas and Oklahoma to Illinois and Iowa may not to retain the interest of kids from the Southwest. More likely Nebraska will shift its focus to the Midwest and create more competition for existing recruits.

I like Nebraska, but it doesn't accomplish any of the broader goals Delany is after.

I tend to agree and I sincerely doubt that Nebraska was Delaney's original target...the chips just fell that way.

 

[Woody1968]

A lot of folks are talking about how teams like these would be natural fits in conferences where they already have in state rivalries. Same for Miami and FSU joining Florida in the SEC.

I think just the opposite is true. Florida wants no part of Miami in the same conference. Right now they have the recruiting edge in Florida because UF is the only in state school that gets you to the SEC. Same for Georgia and USC.

At the conference level I would see the same concern. Bring in Virginia and UNC and you open up two more states for recruiting and TV ratings. Not so with any of the schools mentioned above.

Recruiting is one area where Nebraska does not help the Big Ten. Nobody is going to Nebraska to find talent. And shifting your schedule from Texas and Oklahoma to Illinois and Iowa may not to retain the interest of kids from the Southwest. More likely Nebraska will shift its focus to the Midwest and create more competition for existing recruits.

I like Nebraska, but it doesn't accomplish any of the broader goals Delany is after.

I see where you are going, but I can't agree. Virgina and UNC are far, far too snooty to ever consider joining the SEC & neither one of those schools is hurting for money enough to consider switching for dollars alone. Virginia and NC are a completely different south than Alabama, Mississippi, etc. It is absolutely NOT a cultural fit for any of the parties involved.

I also don't think that playing in the SEC is as big of a draw for the kids in Florida, except when it comes to lower academic standards for some of the institutions. Florida State had no problem recruiting Florida as a member of the SEC, and maybe even did better than UF, because the ACC isn't the SEC, and there was less competition in getting to a national championship game. Same for Miami when they were in the Big East, although Miami has typically recruited from the city of Miami itself, rather than the rest of Florida.

As for Nebraska, I think that they are a national program with a national following. I really don't think they will have problems recruiting from their traditional recruiting grounds, now that they are in the Big 10. Nebraska was arguably better in the Big 8 than they ever were in the Big 12, and the Big 8 didn't have any teams in Texas. Nebraska also had a wonderful walk on program, and the entire state high school football system basically groomed kids to play Nebraska style football. Yes, they may get a couple of kids from Ohio, Michigan and Pennsylvania now, but I don't think we need to hit the panic button. Overall, I think they are a much better fit than a primadonna school like Texas, and maybe better in the short term than Notre Dame.

Winning on the national stage helps more for recruiting than whether you are in the Big 10 or the Big 12.

 

[BuckTwenty]

Interesting talk about Nebraska potentially invading the Big Ten more for recruits. The last time I remember them seriously challenging us for a recruit was Mike D'Andrea's recruitment (Nebraska finished bridesmaid) back in 2002. I decided I'd take a look back at what kind of damage Nebraska did in Big Ten states in recruiting since then (rankings are from scout... I flipped a coin between them and rivals).


Year -- # of players from Big Ten states
State/ Player Name, #*'s/Position/Rank at Position

2002 -- 1 player
TSUN/ Antoine Bagwell, 2* RB #113

2003 -- 2 players
TSUN/ Chris Patrick, 3* DE #44
Illinois/ Corey McKeon, 3* LB #54

2004 -- 5 players
Illinois/ Steven Octavien, NR LB Juco
Illinois/ Joe Ganz, 2* QB NR
Minnesota/ Lydon Murtha, 4* OL #11
Illinois/ Santino Panico, 2* S NR
Minnesota/ Mathan Swift, 3* WR #77

2005 -- 1 player
Minnesota/ Brock Pasteur, 3* OL Juco

2006 -- 0 players

2007 -- 0 players

2008 -- 2 players
Ohio/ Tim Marlowe, 2* WR NR
Iowa/ Ben Cotton, 3* TE #21

2009 -- 0 players

2010 -- 3 players
Illinois/ Corey Cooper, 4* S #12
Ohio/ Braylon Heard, 3* RB #34
Minnesota/ Tobi Okuyemi, 3* DE #41

2011 -- 2 players (thus far)
Ohio/ Kevin Williams, 3* DT #36
Illinois/ Ryan Klachko, 4* OG #11

Breakdown from States: (highly ranked prospects)
Illinois - 7 (2)
Minnesota - 4 (1)
Ohio - 3
TSUN - 2
Iowa - 1

Right now, Nebraska seems to be raiding Kansas, Louisiana, Texas, California, and Arizona the most when it comes to recruiting out-of-state, and it seems to be working really well for them with their results this past year. However, it does seem like they are indeed increasing their presence a little bit lately in the Big Ten the last 2 years and the quality of recruit they are getting from the Big Ten states is a little better than in years past.

My best educated guess: Based on geography and Pelini's tactic of offering Ohio guys that OSU is bypassing, I'm of the thought that they will be battling more directly with Iowa/Wisconsin/scUM/MSU/Minnesota/Illinois for recruits than they will OSU/PSU.

 

[DaddyBigBucks]

Random Observation

So far, Nebraska visitors to Buckeye Planet have netted zero infractions and zero warnings.

Hypothetically, if Delany succeeds in forcing ND's hand at some point: what are the chances that ND fans would go that long with zero moderator actions taken?

I'd put the odds at 10,000 to 1

 

[lvbuckeye]

Just got this E-mail today. Little off topic but well worth the read:

[FONT=&quot]If the Big 12 schools were women . . .[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
Texas is the hottest, richest chick around. She can have anybody she wants. If you land Texas , all of your dreams come true. What you don?t realize is that at the end of the day, you are going to be sitting outside of the dressing room at Nordstrom?s with your thumb up your ass holding her purse while she tries on a bunch of really expensive shit. If you can live with her wearing the pants in the family, then fine. But you?d better learn to like working for her daddy and having her tell you what to wear when you go to the club for dinner on Sunday nights.

OU is a hot chick with big fake boobs who spends lots of time in the gym, but she?s a huge whore. The bad news is that OU will cheat on you. The good news is that OU doesn?t care if you cheat on her. It?s all fun and games until someone doesn?t practice safe sex or your neighbors are snickering at you behind your back because your girl got double teamed by a couple of conventioneers at the Anatole the week of the Cotton Bowl.

A&M is somewhat good looking and intelligent, but completely bat shit crazy. You can?t tell if A&M is bipolar or just having really bad PMS. But either way, she is going to say and do a whole bunch of shit that is just going to leave you scratching your head or ducking for cover. A&M also has two really huge problems: 1) A&M thinks she is much hotter and much smarter than she really is; and 2) She?s got all sorts of issues with Texas . Both of those feed into her mania. You don?t know what you are getting with this nut job, but it wouldn?t surprise you if she cut off all of her hair and joined the SEC, and then 10 minutes later realized how bad she fucked up and came back to you in hysterics.

Colorado is the hippy chick who spends all day on Pearl Street dropping empty gas tank lines on the tourists until her father comes to pick her up in his Benz on the way home from his law practice. Colorado is desirable as long as you can duck batteries, put up with poor hygiene and don?t mind the smell of patchouli.

Tech is cute but has poor self esteem. If you pay any attention to her whatsoever, she will love you forever. She?s the type who gives you a smoker on the way to dinner and would be just as content to be your fuck buddy. The worse you treat Tech, the more she loves you.

Oklahoma State is a less attractive and sluttier version of OU. She might look pretty good if you?ve had a few drinks, and she?ll let you do anything you want to her in bed. You also might think that she?s rich, but then you find out that all of her credit cards are maxed out and she can?t afford the car she?s driving.

Baylor is overweight, homely and manipulative, and is always sticking her nose into your business where it doesn?t belong. Baylor will try every trick in the world to land the right guy. Baylor will lie, cheat, steal, backstab, blackmail, etc? and then justify it all by going to church on Sunday and asking Jesus for forgiveness. The worst part about Baylor is that she won?t give it up, but will try to cock-block you every chance that she gets.

Nebraska is a cougar who has lost her fastball and is jealous of the other hotter chicks (i.e., Texas ). She just spent $2500 on botox and lip injections, and she now looks like the joker when she smiles. It?s sad to see such a former hottie act so desperately and what?s worse, she can?t decide whether she should try to hook up with an aging sugar daddy or go have a series of one-nighters with the drunk twenty-somethings she picks up at Midnight Rodeo.

Kansas is your classic butterface. Great body, but she looks like she fell off the ugly tree and hit every branch on the way down. At the end of the day, the bad grill outweighs the nice tight ass, because you never want to take her out in public. The last thing you want is to wake up the next morning and have Kansas staring you in the face.

Missouri is cute, but not hot. She?s a nice girl and has a great personality, but needs to drop about 15 lbs. You can see how she could be more attractive, but she?s not ever going to be very sexy, no matter what she does. Missouri is the girl you feel guilty cheating on, but you do it anyway.

Kansas State is overweight and stupid. A few years ago when she lost a ton of weight and looked pretty good, you hooked up with her. Now, you look back and can?t even imagine that it is the same human being. You ignore her Facebook friend request and pretend you don?t recognize or remember her when you run into her in public.

Iowa State is the drunken fat chick at the end of the bar that is just happy to be out of the house. The other girls are nice to Iowa State , mostly because they all look better standing next to her. Iowa State is the type who gets stuck with the huge bar tab at the end of the night and goes home alone unless some really wasted chubby chaser ends up tagging her.[/FONT]

so NONE of them are keepers?

 

[kinch]

Generally I agree that getting in core ACC teams (like Maryland) is a dream. I've heard Maryland's name batted around enough that I have hope, but that is probably just a few sportswriters in a circle jerk (sorry, I really couldn't think of a better analogy).

I have heard that the AD there is in love with the ACC, but they have raised tuition a lot in Maryland, I read somewhere 40% in 4 years and then a 4 year stall, and they haven't fired their coach due to $ (so I read somewhere or heard from a UPS girl or something). So maybe in the end $ will speak-- though the new ACC deal isn't so bad in itself.

 

[ORD_Buckeye]

As for Nebraska, I think that they are a national program with a national following. I really don't think they will have problems recruiting from their traditional recruiting grounds, now that they are in the Big 10. Nebraska was arguably better in the Big 8 than they ever were in the Big 12, and the Big 8 didn't have any teams in Texas. Nebraska also had a wonderful walk on program, and the entire state high school football system basically groomed kids to play Nebraska style football. Yes, they may get a couple of kids from Ohio, Michigan and Pennsylvania now, but I don't think we need to hit the panic button. Overall, I think they are a much better fit than a primadonna school like Texas, and maybe better in the short term than Notre Dame.

One thing about their walk-on program: in Nebaraska's glory days, a large number of those "walk-ons" would mysteriously be given their county's academic scholarship to NU. I never bought into the St. Tom image of Osbourne. It made a great morality play for outsiders vis-a-vis Switzer, but I think Osbourne had a pretty shady side himself: partial qualifiers along with the county scholarship scam, not to mention his embrace of some of college football's most notorious scumbags of the 1990s. Those great Nebraska teams of the nineties weren't much better than Switzer's Oklahoma teams when it came to off field issues.

I certainly hope that their move to the Big Ten is not being viewed in Lincoln as a way to get out from under the UT dictated recruiting policies in the B12, and I hope the B10 has made clear what recruiting policies and standards need to be maintained for them to move beyond the probationary window of conference membership.

 

[DaddyBigBucks]

Generally I agree that getting in core ACC teams (like Maryland) is a dream. ...

I know it's just me, but I would consider the addition of Maryland to be a failure of epic proportions. Before Ralph, they were nothing, and they're already back to being nothing. Even at their zenith they weren't in any danger of winning a championship of any kind.

This is about football to me. Yes, I know that's just my standard of value; and it's obvious that no one shares it. That said, for my part, I do not want MD in the Big Ten.