Big Ten and other Conference Expansion

[FCollinsBuckeye]

On another note regarding rampant rumor-mongering, I wouldn't underestimate the capacity for those that feel threatened by a BigTen expansion to try and sabatoge efforts by starting unfounded rumors...

See: Kirk Herbstreit's "Les Miles to Michigan" prediction.

 

[DaddyBigBucks]

Bloggers make suggestion for Georgia Tech to be added to the list of 'teams the B10 should invite':

Big Ten Expansion and Georgia Tech | Georgia Tech: Ramblin' On

On one end, it'd be a decent choice. Georgia Tech is in the AAU, has a decent football program, and was in the top 50 for director's cup finals last year. But the issue of travel makes it a non-starter to me.

The Yellow Jackets are 32 miles farther away from Columbus than are the Tigers of Missouri and almost 200 miles closer than the Golden Gophers. Considering the Gophers have been part of the conference since forever, back when all inter-city travel was by train; and considering that Delta's Hub means there are more and cheaper flights to Atlanta for most Americans than to almost any city in the Big 10 except Chicago...

I don't see the problem.

 

[Mrstickball]

The Yellow Jackets are 32 miles farther away from Columbus than are the Tigers of Missouri and almost 200 miles closer than the Golden Gophers. Considering the Gophers have been part of the conference since forever, back when all inter-city travel was by train; and considering that Delta's Hub means there are more and cheaper flights to Atlanta for most Americans than to almost any city in the Big 10 except Chicago...

I don't see the problem.

I do. They aren't playing the Bucks every game. Usually, in a conference, you play teams from that conference.

Missouri (distance to other B10 schools, via MapQuest):

1. Iowa City, IA - 244 miles
2. Champaign, IL - 270 miles
3. Bloomington, IN - 355 miles
4. West Lafayette, IN - 363 miles
5. Evanston, IL - 397 miles
6. Minneapolis, MN - 414 miles
7. Madison, WI - 432 miles
8. Columbus, OH - 534 miles
9. Ann Arbor, MI - 597 miles
10. East Lansing, MI - 613 miles
11. State College, PA - 871 miles

Georgia Tech (distance to other B10 schools, via MapQuest):

1. Columbus, OH - 676 miles
2. Bloomington, IN - 761 miles
3. State College, PA - 770 miles
4. West Lafayette, IN - 841 miles
5. Champaign, IL - 869 miles
6. Ann Arbor, MI - 897 miles
7. East Lansing, MI - 961 miles
8. Evanston, IL - 975 miles
9. Iowa City, IA - 1,064 miles
10. Madison, WI - 1,117 miles
11. Minneapolis, MN - 1,363 miles

Average distance to B10 school:

• Georgia Tech - 935 miles
• Missouri - 408 miles

On average, Missouri has to travel under half the distance as GA tech to a B-10 game. Don't get me wrong, I'd like to see GA Tech if we added a 16th team along side of Nebraska, Texas, ND, and an east coast team. I just don't see them being a great value-add in the territory of the bigger schools. A footprint in the south would be nice, though.

 

[jwinslow]

Stick, they aren't driving to most of those games. A comparison of the flight times would be more applicable for these distance discussions.

 

[DaddyBigBucks]

I do. They aren't playing the Bucks every game. Usually, in a conference, you play teams from that conference.

Missouri (distance to other B10 schools, via MapQuest):

1. Iowa City, IA - 244 miles
2. Champaign, IL - 270 miles
3. Bloomington, IN - 355 miles
4. West Lafayette, IN - 363 miles
5. Evanston, IL - 397 miles
6. Minneapolis, MN - 414 miles
7. Madison, WI - 432 miles
8. Columbus, OH - 534 miles
9. Ann Arbor, MI - 597 miles
10. East Lansing, MI - 613 miles
11. State College, PA - 871 miles

Georgia Tech (distance to other B10 schools, via MapQuest):

1. Columbus, OH - 676 miles
2. Bloomington, IN - 761 miles
3. State College, PA - 770 miles
4. West Lafayette, IN - 841 miles
5. Champaign, IL - 869 miles
6. Ann Arbor, MI - 897 miles
7. East Lansing, MI - 961 miles
8. Evanston, IL - 975 miles
9. Iowa City, IA - 1,064 miles
10. Madison, WI - 1,117 miles
11. Minneapolis, MN - 1,363 miles

Average distance to B10 school:

• Georgia Tech - 935 miles
• Missouri - 408 miles

On average, Missouri has to travel under half the distance as GA tech to a B-10 game. Don't get me wrong, I'd like to see GA Tech if we added a 16th team along side of Nebraska, Texas, ND, and an east coast team. I just don't see them being a great value-add in the territory of the bigger schools. A footprint in the south would be nice, though.

I'm sorry you went to all that trouble. really, I am


Did you note the part where travel to Atlanta is cheap because of Delta's hub there?

But even that is very far beside the point.

Why has Texas tried to get into the PAC 10 in the past when the distance issue there is MUCH larger than what we're talking about here?

And why did the distance issue for Minnesota, going all the way back to the time when all inter-city travel was via train; not prevent them from being a member of the Big 10?

These last two questions are all I need to see that the distance thing is ridiculously over-blown. It is not a problem.

But even THAT is beside the point where it comes to the Yellow Jackets.


If GT leaves the ACC, it will NOT be to join the Big Ten; and it has NOTHING to do with travel.

 

[jlb1705]

The Yellow Jackets are 32 miles farther away from Columbus than are the Tigers of Missouri and almost 200 miles closer than the Golden Gophers. Considering the Gophers have been part of the conference since forever, back when all inter-city travel was by train; and considering that Delta's Hub means there are more and cheaper flights to Atlanta for most Americans than to almost any city in the Big 10 except Chicago...

I don't see the problem.

The problem I see would be for the Big Ten Network. Is GT even the most popular team in their city, let alone their state? Their ability to increase the overall revenue pie for the existing members seems to be not too different from Rutgers.

Also, I think travel could be a concern. Modern travel and the nature of intercollegiate athletics makes extensive travel pretty common, but compared to many other schools Georgia Tech is in a pretty good situation as far as travel goes. They may not want to mess with that.

I argued the opposite for Texas a while back. I believe the overall revenue picture with them would be different (bigger) and that would offset the increased travel costs. I don't know if GT could alter the revenue picture enough to offset their increased travel costs.

Plus, they're in a pretty good situation right now as far as travel goes. I don't know if looking at each team's proximity to Columbus (or whatever the closest current member may be for any particular candidate) is the right way to look at it. Any new member would need to look at travel for their complete conference schedule. Right now, 7 of 11 conference opponents are within roughly a 7-hr. drive of Atlanta (Florida State, Clemson, NC State, Duke, North Carolina, Wake Forest & Virginia Tech). Sure, Atlanta carries the benefit of their airport and lower airfare, but I imagine being able to charter a bus to most events rather than having to fly is even better than that.

Also, I'd argue that the ACC is a decent academic conference. I don't know if they have anything akin to the CIC, but at least from a prestige standpoint there isn't as much of a difference between the Big Ten and the ACC as there is between the Big Ten and the Big East of Big Twelve.

I like Georgia Tech and think they could fit the Big Ten profile. I just don't know that the incentive for them to make a move is as great as it is for some of the other names that have been tossed out there.

 

[Piney]

Are we really reacting to a blog in Atlanta that is just asking a hypothetical question???

I think I might start up a blog and openly ask if USC or Florida would fit in with the Big 10.

The only problem with the millions of blogs out there is you have to sift through all the crap to find real tidbits.

And yet... why do I read all of this crap???

 

[Mrstickball]

@DaddBigBucks -

I was merely ripping the fact you tried to justify travel merely using the closest school to GT as a barometer for the Gophers, Mizzou, and GT, totally negating the fact that the other two teams have multiple B10 schools closer to it.

I wasn't arguing travel costs. I was just merely pointing out that B10 schools, on average, are much closer for Mizzou. Maybe there'd be a problem with the GT fan base for traveling? I wasn't trying to use mapquest as an accurate distance barometer for flights...It was just the easiest to pull up for relative distances, which I think should of adequately pointed out that, on average, Mizzou is about twice as close to any given B10 school vs. GTech, which may be a consideration for GT joining the B10.

 

[DaddyBigBucks]

@DaddBigBucks -

I was merely ripping ... blah blah blah

So you were just ripping me and you're not going to bother to respond to any of my other points. Gotcha

 

[jlb1705]

Are we really reacting to a blog in Atlanta that is just asking a hypothetical question???

What do you think I should be doing instead? Working?

 

[Mrstickball]

So you were just ripping me and you're not going to bother to respond to any of my other points. Gotcha

Now that you mention it, I'll gladly offer a point-by-point rebuttal once I have the time.

 

[DaddyBigBucks]

Now that you mention it, I'll gladly offer a point-by-point rebuttal once I have the time.

you really wanna spend more time on this?

whatever dude

 

[DaveyBoy]

The Yellow Jackets are 32 miles farther away from Columbus than are the Tigers of Missouri and almost 200 miles closer than the Golden Gophers. Considering the Gophers have been part of the conference since forever, back when all inter-city travel was by train; and considering that Delta's Hub means there are more and cheaper flights to Atlanta for most Americans than to almost any city in the Big 10 except Chicago...

I don't see the problem.

The last I checked Atlanta actually has higher priced flights due to the fact that it is a hub city. Airlines are able to charge high fares for flights originating in hub cities because they can trade convenience for value.

Airtran helps the cause a bit, but not enough to negate the fact that Atlanta is horribly inconvenient for the fans/families of GaTech's minor sports athletes.

I certainly see the appeal of Atlanta to the BigTen fans that live around there, but it is not feasible overall.

 

[Mrstickball]

you really wanna spend more time on this?

whatever dude

Well, given that your cutting off my posts and arguing that since I didn't answer the rest of the comment, yes, it makes me want to at least explain what I was meaning more thoroughly.

When we talk distances, I am not simply meaning travel costs, as you were. It is a bit more than that.

The answer lies in why you stated that Texas would talk to the Pac-10 moreso than the Big 10, despite some places being further away than B10 schools.

Simply put, its because Texas has enough clout and notoriety to go wherever, and do whatever they would please, vis-a-vis their alumni basis. They, like USC, Florida, Ohio State, and a few other schools, have national fanbases. Such things give them more room to discuss contracts, and allow them to argue the terms of their involvement with a league.

For that very reason, I think that distance is a larger hurdle for smaller schools with smaller national footprints - Rutgers, Syracuse, GT, ect. Their alumni and fanbase may be more hesitant to travel to a further away conference.

 

[DaddyBigBucks]

Serves As Its Own Rebuttal

In the future, I'll just post SAIOR...