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Best Buckeye Defense Ever?

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BuckeyeTrail said:
if ginn played corner, then yes, this defense could be the best ever.
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Interesting point. I've always thought that the most valuable player on D is a good lock-down corner. With two of them, the linebackers would have an absolute field day. We wouldn't need a strong pass rushing end.

However, I also still think Ginn is more valuable on offense. Maybe JamO will surprise me and become a freshman superstar this year (note: I think he'll be a star at CB, just not this year).
 
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After the '02 NC there were topics of this nature over on BN. Statistically speaking, no defense will ever compare to what the 1973 team accomplished. However, there was one guy who posted a great piece on the 1973 defense versus the 2002 defense based on the opponents records, yards per game average, points per game average, etc, etc. The guys (I can't for the life of me remember who it was) point was that if you looked at the quality of the opponents for each team, that maybe the difference wasn't all that great. The 2002 team sent many "Heisman Hopefuls" home scratching their heads.

But, as for the best, I'm old school and will go with 1973. The numbers are mind-boggling. Plus, take away the two garbage 4th quarter TD's they gave up to a shitty Iowa team the week before the scUM game and those numbers go down to 30 points allowed in 10 games. Amazing.
 
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MililaniBuckeye said:
They gave up 2 TDs and 2 FGs in their first eight games, including a five-game run where they allowed a single score (TD).
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I think this ends the conversation. However, for second place, let me throw this out: I watched the NC again yesterday and I realized that every single starter has been drafted and is now in the NFL. It seems pretty rare that a team can be so stacked that every single position starter makes it to the NFL. Moreover, players who didn't even start (but played) in that game went on to have phenomenal careers here at tOSU (e.g., Will Allen 1st team All-America, A.J. Hawk 1st team All-American and lock for 1st round of the draft). Additionally, that season we held several high-powered offenses to less than 10 pts (scUM 9, Penn St. 7, Purdue 6, Minnesota 3). Thus, if not second, '02 definitely has to be up there.
 
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buckeyeboy said:
...Additionally, that season we held several high-powered offenses to less than 10 pts (scUM 9, Penn St. 7, Purdue 6, Minnesota 3). Thus, if not second, '02 definitely has to be up there.
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Dont' forget holding Washington State to 7, and that 14 of Texas Tech's 21 points came late on the fourth quarter against non-starters.
 
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BuckeyeTrail said:
I realize i am in the minority, as everybody is so starved for offense and highlights they want to keep teddy where he's at. i want more. i salivate at the thought of a dominating defense that has people going home in body bags.

i like salley, but his tackling worries me. i still picture that missed tackle on braylon in the 03 game. i think he's one of the players that we fans tend to overrate. i really hope he steps up big this year.
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Wow. First off before we have to fall back on Ginn to save the day, we have a guy by the name of Jamario O'Neal coming in the fall who may be even better then Ginn. Not to mention the fact that our defense isn't going to come down to our db's. It's going to come down to the D-line.

Second I don't know what Nate Salley you've been watching this year but I can think of many more plays where he ROCKED someone or made an excellent read then that one play you spoke of. Nate Salley is a hell of a ball player and I guarantee he will get his job done. Not to mention he has another slobberknocker in Daunte Whitner right next to him. Put Youboty back there and like I said, hopefully Jamario is amazing, we will have no questions except on the D-line.

Third, on a different note, luckily we hired our new D-coordinator from within so it's not like the guys will be learning a whole new system. Heacock knows the D-line and I am confident he will have them ready.
 
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i agree with buckeyeboy...the fact that every player was drafted is disgusting.

d-line:

will smith round 1
peterson, anderson, and scott round 3

linebackers:

wilhelm round 4?, but he was fantastic at the college level
cie grant round 3
rob reynolds round 5 or 6

secondary:

gamble round 1
doss round 2, all-american and heart and soul of the defense
nickey round 5
fox round 3 (people seem to forget that fox totally shut down roscoe parrish, a round 2 draft pick; gamble was getting the safety help in that game; the only play parrish made came against doss)
allen, the nickelback, taken in round 3

9 members of that defense taken in the first 3 rounds. that's incredible.

that really was a tremendous defensive line. they were the biggest key to beating miami.
 
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ohiostate=life said:
Wow. First off before we have to fall back on Ginn to save the day, we have a guy by the name of Jamario O'Neal coming in the fall who may be even better then Ginn.
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As a certain retard on ESPN says... not so fast my friend

To say that O'Neal could be better than Ginn is totally and utterly unfair. All Ginn did last year was make huge plays and if I remember correctly he was recruited to OSU to be a CB... If I also remember correctly, he was the #1 CB in his class and #4 overall in the nation

This being said it is just totally unfair to say with all that Ginn has done so far that an incoming freshman (who is going to be great no doubt about that) could be better than him at CB.
 
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Well I believe that they CAN be better, but right now they're not. Simply because our D-line isn't as strong. I hope the D-line reads this thread and realizes that its up to them.....

Anyhow I think Hawk is better than Grant, Carpenter is better than Reynolds, and Schlegal is a better run stopper than Wilhelm.

In the secondary I think the safty position is a wash, and Yobouty is better than Fox was at his stage in his career, but I don't think anyone can match Gamble.

D-line has great potential I like this group with greene, pitcock, kudla, richardson. I like this group, but one of the ends has to step up and put some pressure on the QB if we're to have this conversation again sometime after Jan. 3rd and the national championship is being presented.
 
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aurorabuckeye13 said:
As a certain retard on ESPN says... not so fast my friend

To say that O'Neal could be better than Ginn is totally and utterly unfair. All Ginn did last year was make huge plays and if I remember correctly he was recruited to OSU to be a CB... If I also remember correctly, he was the #1 CB in his class and #4 overall in the nation

This being said it is just totally unfair to say with all that Ginn has done so far that an incoming freshman (who is going to be great no doubt about that) could be better than him at CB.
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Well since it appearers Ginn won't be playing any defense, it would be pretty stupid to say he's better at defense than jamario who WILL be playing on defense. Don't get me wrong, Ginn is an excellent athlete and thank you I am aware of his defensive rankings coming into college, but he doesn't play defense. He has proven himself everywhere else and I'm sure if he got put in on defense he would do awesome. But as of right now, that isn't going to happen. My point was previous posters were putting the fate on our success as a defense solely on Ginn, who doesn't even play. All I'm saying is we have talent that hasn't even stepped foot on campus yet and before we put Ginn on the field for 100 plays a game, we might want to look at the man from his alma mater.
 
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aurorabuckeye13 said:
To say that O'Neal could be better than Ginn is totally and utterly unfair. All Ginn did last year was make huge plays and if I remember correctly he was recruited to OSU to be a CB... If I also remember correctly, he was the #1 CB in his class and #4 overall in the nation

This being said it is just totally unfair to say with all that Ginn has done so far that an incoming freshman (who is going to be great no doubt about that) could be better than him at CB.
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As we've seen so many times in the past, high school position rankings mean absolute shit. Ginn may truly have been a great high school corner, but who can truly say that O'Neal won't be as good, if not even better, at that position? Ginn also got a lot of additional hype in high school because of his special teams play, as he is currently getting in college, which filtered over to his position ranking. We also had 2003's #1 CB in Whitner, but he hasn't played corner yet, either, so rankings aren't always indicative.

But if you insist on relying on rankings, O'Neal was ranked as the #3 CB in the entire country (5-star), so he's no slouch at corner.
 
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2005 comparable to 2002?

There is no way that we should have expectations of approaching the 2002, 1996, or 1973 defenses. That said, I thought there were real holes going into 2002.....and was wrong.

DL : Great potential....unknown....I think Pitcock and Greene can be as solid as Anderson/Scott/Peterson, and I don't think we need them to be playMAKERS in the mold of Kenny P. in 2002. We have no Will Smith. Period. No known disruptive entity coming INTO the 2005 season. I like Richardson/Gholston/Barrow/Worthington, and MAYBE one steps up to consistently disrupt the backfield, but without that, take this D out of consideration for greatness. I love Mike Kudla, but I don't think that he is that player. I like him as our run stopping, assignment-completing DE.

LBs : We're there. Please don't dismiss Matt Wilhelm's contributions to 2001-2002. Without him in 2001, we were pathetic. Without him in 2002, NO WAY we win the NC. He was so underrated coming into 2002.

S : We need a Mike Doss. I love Nate Salley and Donte Whitner, but I want one of them to CONSISTENTLY destroy the run game at the line of scrimmage. Both have the potential (as do Sirjo and Jamario as safeties), and I think one or both will step up this year. We'll be right there with 2002.

CB : Youboty will be the man. Boundary is the key. Fox continues to be under-estimated. He played his role perfectly. Understand it and you'll agree. It doesn't mean you need a lesser CB. You need a smart and sure-tackling CB, still with recovery speed. I like Everett, but his football speed worries me. I like Welch, but I think we'll see him using his adequate recovery speed too often (a human missile, better suited for S). I like Lane, but perhaps better as Youboty's backup. I like Jamario at safety, based on film. If one guy can play equal to a young Dustin Fox in 2002, we'll be fine.

Punter : Along with a play-making DE and solid boundary CB, field position will be the determining factors for the 2005 D. Look at 1973, 1996, and 2002. All with solid to great punting games. I'm not sold on Trapasso. I'm praying for the freshman from NE Ohio to come through.

Time will tell. Go Bucks!
 
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The problem here is that SO much right now depends on the attitude through the summer and into the fall... Which is infuriatingly difficult to quantify. One of the things that made 2002 so special is the team's mindset. Absolute focus on fundamentals, determination to succeed, total dedication to the goal of winning a national championship. 2003 was much the same... but it seemed that the mental toughness had slipped a bit.

That mental intensity, in 2002, allowed the team to build momentum through the summer and translate potential into reality.

This 2005 team is also building momentum. They're fired up, confident, and driven. The only problem is that we have no way of measuring that drive. I, too, think the DL will be the key to this season. Healthy Kudla, if he performs up to potential, is a big factor. Pitcock, also, has been looking good. Richardson, looking good. What we need to see now is a fourth starter who can impose his will on an OL, as well as a #2 guy at each position who at the very least can hold down the fort while the starter gets a breather.

If we can get back to where we were in 2002, where so many players rotated in and out with no appreciable loss in performance, we'll go from contender to juggernaut. Tress has already said that this will be the case at LB. We've certainly got the depth at safety (maybe CB, too, by midseason--Welch, Lane, et al stepping into more prominent roles)

Defense wins championships, and this has the potential to be a great one... and if Tress has shown us one thing so far, it's the ability to get players to make the most of potential. We'll be just fine.
 
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