BCA gives third report card.

[BayBuck]

Randy Shannon actually had a good idea(!) on this subject, suggesting that teams should be allowed an extra GA position (though he goes too far in saying it must be filled by a minority), which would give more former players with potential futures in coaching a foot in the door, since minorities can only earn a shot at head-coaching if they have come up the coaching ladder like successful coaches always have. Although I do imagine GA positions have gone to a lot more minorities over the last decade or so, and it's only a matter of time before they get enough experience as position coaches and coordinators to start getting more head-coaching gigs.

 

[Muck]

Joker Phillips is the "coach in waiting" at Kentucky (and a damn fine O-Coordinator).

"Coaches in waiting" is a racist practice.

Just ask Mike Wilbon.

 

[LitlBuck]

I guess I just don't understand the BCA. I would think that athletic directors would hire the best person, regardless of race, that they would think would help their football program. I would have no problem, and I am not the most liberal person in the world, with Ohio State hiring a black coach when JT retires. I just really don't understand it. Every college wants to hire a coach who would win football games for them.

 

[methomps]

I never understood this as an argument. The same athletic directors are hiring the basketball coaches, no?

I'm not saying this isn't a problem, but, leading a major college football program is no small job... and... an extensive resume helps. I guess my question would be, are there a growing number of minority assistants or minority coaches in FCS? Just seems to me that there are other matrices to determine if things are heading in the right direction even if the numbers aren't going up directly.

I am happy to see that Turner Gill is a hot name, that helps. The old Tribe farmhand* will get his big shot soon enough. (Auburn probably did him a favor, btw)


*no, I'm not confusing him with Turner Ward.

One possible difference is the boosters, who are much more involved in the hiring of football coaches (and may be a different sort from the basketball coaches). The football coach drives donations. Racist boosters may create a rational reason to pass over qualified black coaches.

I guess I just don't understand the BCA. I would think that athletic directors would hire the best person, regardless of race, that they would think would help their football program. I would have no problem, and I am not the most liberal person in the world, with Ohio State hiring a black coach when JT retires. I just really don't understand it. Every college wants to hire a coach who would win football games for them.

In a perfect world, yes. In this world...

"[African-Americans] may not have some of the necessities to be, let's say, a field manager or perhaps a general manager."
-LA Dodgers executive Al Campanis, 1987

"I once had a n****r work for me . . . I would never hire another n****r. I'd rather have a trained monkey working for me than a n****r."
- Cincinnati Reds owner Marge Shott, 1992

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

In a perfect world, yes. In this world...

"[African-Americans] may not have some of the necessities to be, let's say, a field manager or perhaps a general manager."
-LA Dodgers executive Al Campanis, 1987

"I once had a n****r work for me . . . I would never hire another n****r. I'd rather have a trained monkey working for me than a n****r."
- Cincinnati Reds owner Marge Shott, 1992

Nothing like lumping all non-Blacks into the same heap, eh?

If Tressel were to cease to be our coach within the next few years, the man who has the clear inside track as his replacement is Darrell Hazell...that's if Hazell isn't already hired away.

 

[methomps]

Nothing like lumping all non-Blacks into the same heap, eh?

If Tressel were to cease to be our coach within the next few years, the man who has the clear inside track as his replacement is Darrell Hazell...that's if Hazell isn't already hired away.

How am I lumping all non-blacks into the same heap? I merely am demonstrating that the theory that the decision-making process at the highest levels of sports is free from racial bias due to the pressure to win is simply not true in practice.

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

How am I lumping all non-blacks into the same heap?

By prefacing your statement with "In this world...", and by quoting isolated crap spewed by two non-blacks from 21 and 16 years ago as if that mindset were prevalent today.

 

[jwinslow]

by quoting isolated crap spewed by two non-blacks from 21 and 16 years ago as if that mindset were prevalent today.

It doesn't have to encapsulate everyone or even be a majority to still be a problem today.

 

[AKAK]

One possible difference is the boosters, who are much more involved in the hiring of football coaches (and may be a different sort from the basketball coaches). The football coach drives donations. Racist boosters may create a rational reason to pass over qualified black coaches.

Well, I guess my point is, how do measure the pool of qualified black coaches?

Are there more minority GA's, position coaches and coordinators than there were 3, 5, 7, 10 years ago?

What is the relative experience level (in years) of the coordinators relative to there white counterparts?

And then, how many jobs come open are filled by first time coaches? (Don't tell me that's not a problem, Willingham keeps getting jobs... they like to recycle. )

What if I changed your statement to say:

The football coach drives donations. Sexist boosters may create a rational reason to pass over qualified female football coaches.

It may be very possibly true on one hand, but, saying it doesn't mean that there are qualified coaches of any particular persuasion falling off the trees.

If someone can tell me, you know that there are 200 coordinators and 40 are minorities and they have an average of 4.5 years of experience in that job the other 160 white guys have 4.0 years experience... and there are 10 open jobs that went to new coaches (That were coordinators)... I'd expect the minorites to get 2 or 3 of them.

But, I don't know that's the case... at all.

 

[methomps]

By prefacing your statement with "In this world...", and by quoting isolated crap spewed by two non-blacks from 21 and 16 years ago as if that mindset were prevalent today.

In this world racism exists. No, it isn't anywhere close to universal, but neither does the pressure to win negate it. I have a hard time believing we've stamped out both overt and hidden bias in 16 years.

Well, I guess my point is, how do measure the pool of qualified black coaches?

Are there more minority GA's, position coaches and coordinators than there were 3, 5, 7, 10 years ago?

What is the relative experience level (in years) of the coordinators relative to there white counterparts?

And then, how many jobs come open are filled by first time coaches? (Don't tell me that's not a problem, Willingham keeps getting jobs... they like to recycle. )

What if I changed your statement to say:



It may be very possibly true on one hand, but, saying it doesn't mean that there are qualified coaches of any particular persuasion falling off the trees.

If someone can tell me, you know that there are 200 coordinators and 40 are minorities and they have an average of 4.5 years of experience in that job the other 160 white guys have 4.0 years experience... and there are 10 open jobs that went to new coaches (That were coordinators)... I'd expect the minorites to get 2 or 3 of them.

But, I don't know that's the case... at all.

I don't know the numbers to that detail, but I have read that 25% of D1-A assistant coaches are black, and 3% of head coaches are black.

There are, what, 5 black head coaches in major college football (119 teams). There are 7 in the NFL (32 teams). The progression should be flowing upwards (more assistant college coaches, then more college head coaches, then more NFL head coaches). I gotta think the Rooney rule explains the inversion.

 

[AKAK]

I don't know the numbers to that detail, but I have read that 25% of D1-A assistant coaches are black, and 3% of head coaches are black.

Doesnt' give the cahnge over time... but.. interesting article (if awfully disjointed)

Black Coaches in The NCAA: Race Matters and Coaching Hires | Bleacher Report

 

[LitlBuck]

I don't know the numbers to that detail, but I have read that 25% of D1-A assistant coaches are black, and 3% of head coaches are black.

There are, what, 5 black head coaches in major college football (119 teams). There are 7 in the NFL (32 teams). The progression should be flowing upwards (more assistant college coaches, then more college head coaches, then more NFL head coaches). I gotta think the Rooney rule explains the inversion.

I really don't think the Rooney rule is the reason for the "inversion". I am pretty sure that the Rooney rule only says that NFL teams have to interview two minorities and that they don't have to hire them. Getting around that, the hiring of minority coaches, would seem fairly simple if they were just interview to black coaches. I think the "inversion" is probably more related to your prior post when you talk about boosters and the football coaches driving donations. The NFL does not have to worry about donations from boosters.

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

In this world racism exists. No, it isn't anywhere close to universal, but neither does the pressure to win negate it. I have a hard time believing we've stamped out both overt and hidden bias in 16 years.

Yes it does, and it will likely always exist at least in some form and to some degree. Fortunately, its form has become more subtle and its degree has become smaller. I never claimed that is has been stamped out, but simply pointed out that our examples were relatively outdated and blunt. Imagine the shitstorm that would be stirred up if someone made those statements today.

 

[Folanator]

Yes it does, and it will likely always exist at least in some form and to some degree. Fortunately, its form has become more subtle and its degree has become smaller. I never claimed that is has been stamped out, but simply pointed out that our examples were relatively outdated and blunt. Imagine the shitstorm that would be stirred up if someone made those statements today.

and it still is more skued because Marge was from another generation that was racist. Those numbers will decline as that generation dies off.

Anything you want to know about Marge, let me know. She was my ex Mother-in laws sister. I spent many a night listening to her rantings.

Amusing story OT, I was in the middle of the divorce when ESPN said that Marge might have been over heard saying the "N" word. Now her family were being absolute a-holes to me at the time.
The week that she bought the Reds I was at her house for Christmas dinner. We were in her bar and she said about Dave Parker "I am not going to pay some ****** 3mm to play base ball". Now, Marge did not dislike Dave, it was just the way her generation talked. She really was not a bad person, she was drunk most of the time and just talked like a Clansmen. Wierd dichonemy, but true. She wasn't a bad person, she was drunk and stupid.
Now, I thought to myself, with one phone call I would have been all over the National News and could have torched her family. But I did not. Took the high road.

Point being, the older generation needs to die before this will go away. You cannot make an old dog change their spots....er...something like that.

 

[DaytonBuck]

So the same folk in the SEC who would never hire a black football coach would hire Tubby Smith @ Kentucky which is the SEC's biggest basketball program and according to Rick Pinto the "Roman Empire of college basketball". Sure he left but Kentucky and as the movie Glory Road documents had a Kentucky coach would have some issues with racism. Georgia hires Dennis Felton and Tubby Smith. Ole Miss hires Rod Barnes and Rob Evans. Tennessee hired Wade Houston in the 90's. Arkansas hired Nolan Richardson in the 80's went to 3 final fours and won one national title and then replaced him with AA Stan Heath. LSU this offseason hires Trent Johnson and it receives a few ripples in the hoops world outside of an excited Fox Sports article.

The same Boosters, Presidents and Athletic Directors can hire black coaches in the SEC and beyond. However this same group despite the variables won't hire a black coach in another sport.