BCA gives third report card.

[DaytonBuck]

The ACC another conference that covers the south has Sidney Lowe at NC State, Lenard Hamilton at Florida State followed by Perry Clark and Frank Haith, Hamilton at Florida State, Dave Leito at Virginia, Al Skinner at Boston College, Oliver Purnell at Clemson, Paul Hewitt @ Georgia Tech

The SEC and the ACC can hire black basketball coaches despite the same variables with football coaches and no one bats any eye. There must be some bigger variables/situations with the football coaches.

 

[stxbuck]

So the same folk in the SEC who would never hire a black football coach would hire Tubby Smith @ Kentucky which is the SEC's biggest basketball program and according to Rick Pinto the "Roman Empire of college basketball". Sure he left but Kentucky and as the movie Glory Road documents had a Kentucky coach would have some issues with racism. Georgia hires Dennis Felton and Tubby Smith. Ole Miss hires Rod Barnes and Rob Evans. Tennessee hired Wade Houston in the 90's. Arkansas hired Nolan Richardson in the 80's went to 3 final fours and won one national title and then replaced him with AA Stan Heath. LSU this offseason hires Trent Johnson and it receives a few ripples in the hoops world outside of an excited Fox Sports article.

The same Boosters, Presidents and Athletic Directors can hire black coaches in the SEC and beyond. However this same group despite the variables won't hire a black coach in another sport.

I would argue that football will always be nearer and dearer to the hearts of SEC ADs/fans/boosters at every school except Kentucky. The reason,IMO, that you will not see another black coach besides Joker Phillips any time soon in the SEC is the fact that there is a defacto coaching arms race going on among schools in that league (which Auburn has strangely backed out of w/ the Chizik hire)-Spurrier,Meyer,Saban,Petrino,Kiffin-the bigtime schools are all looking to hire the most high profile coach available, and, right now, unless Dungy or Lovie Smith decides coaching in Dixie is better than their NFL gigs, that doesn't include any black coaches. Turner Gill is a good coach, but he won't make the splash that Lane Kiffin did.
A second point is the fact that I can't name any high profile black coordinators besides Charlie Strong at Florida. The NFL does a much better job-for whatever reason-of moving black coaches quickly "up the ladder" so to speak.

 

[methomps]

I really don't think the Rooney rule is the reason for the "inversion". I am pretty sure that the Rooney rule only says that NFL teams have to interview two minorities and that they don't have to hire them. Getting around that, the hiring of minority coaches, would seem fairly simple if they were just interview to black coaches. I think the "inversion" is probably more related to your prior post when you talk about boosters and the football coaches driving donations. The NFL does not have to worry about donations from boosters.

Before the Rooney Rule, black head coaches made up only 6% of NFL head coaches. They now make up 22%. Before 2004, there had never been more than 3 black head coaches at a time. There are now 7. Whether the Rooney Rule has created that change or simply sped up that change, the difference is pretty stark.

Now, I don't know that it would necessarily be as successful in college because of the booster problem.

Yes it does, and it will likely always exist at least in some form and to some degree. Fortunately, its form has become more subtle and its degree has become smaller. I never claimed that is has been stamped out, but simply pointed out that our examples were relatively outdated and blunt. Imagine the [censored]storm that would be stirred up if someone made those statements today.

These quotes weren't exactly from the 60s. Nor were they intended to be representative. They do however, show that racism can exist at high levels of sports, contrary to what someone said earlier. And overt racism isn't really needed to deny opportunities to minorities. Unconscious or even rational racism is much more prevalent and just as dangerous.

So the same folk in the SEC who would never hire a black football coach would hire Tubby Smith @ Kentucky which is the SEC's biggest basketball program and according to Rick Pinto the "Roman Empire of college basketball". Sure he left but Kentucky and as the movie Glory Road documents had a Kentucky coach would have some issues with racism. Georgia hires Dennis Felton and Tubby Smith. Ole Miss hires Rod Barnes and Rob Evans. Tennessee hired Wade Houston in the 90's. Arkansas hired Nolan Richardson in the 80's went to 3 final fours and won one national title and then replaced him with AA Stan Heath. LSU this offseason hires Trent Johnson and it receives a few ripples in the hoops world outside of an excited Fox Sports article.

The same Boosters, Presidents and Athletic Directors can hire black coaches in the SEC and beyond. However this same group despite the variables won't hire a black coach in another sport.

I think with bball you are talking about different boosters and different level of booster involvement. Basketball coaches do not drive donations to the same degree that football coaches do. And someone with unconscious racism may have a different estimation of a black person's ability to coach basketball compared to football. Consider the NFL vs. NBA for demonstrating and reinforcing this possibility:

01-02 NBA: blacks made up 78% of players and 48% of head coaches
01-02 NFL: blacks made up 65% of players and 6% of head coaches

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

These quotes weren't exactly from the 60s. Nor were they intended to be representative. They do however, show that racism can exist at high levels of sports, contrary to what someone said earlier. And overt racism isn't really needed to deny opportunities to minorities. Unconscious or even rational racism is much more prevalent and just as dangerous.

True, but they still were made 21 and 16 years ago, essentially a full generation, and they were made by individuals who weren't exactly spring chickens at the time of their comments. They were made by two individuals born in, and raised in, a time when open racism was abound.

As for "rational racism", you'll have to explain that one to me...

 

[Mike80]

make the liberals and the BCA happy - install quotas that make the % of black coaches match that of the players so they'll stop whining already

 

[tibor75]

And people wonder why established failures like Wade Phillips, Dave Wanshit, and Norv Turner get recycled over and over again. Yeah, there is no racism.

 

[Mike80]

And people wonder why established failures like Wade Phillips, Dave Wanshit, and Norv Turner get recycled over and over again. Yeah, there is no racism.

Way to bring the NFL into a college discussion dumbass....

 

[Gatorubet]

make the liberals and the BCA happy - install quotas that make the % of black coaches match that of the players so they'll stop whining already

Right. All liberals everywhere respond to statistical evidence of racism by demanding quotas as the only possible response.

Just like all conservatives want only white men as coaches.

 

[DaytonBuck]

Before the Rooney Rule, black head coaches made up only 6% of NFL head coaches. They now make up 22%. Before 2004, there had never been more than 3 black head coaches at a time. There are now 7. Whether the Rooney Rule has created that change or simply sped up that change, the difference is pretty stark.

Now, I don't know that it would necessarily be as successful in college because of the booster problem.



These quotes weren't exactly from the 60s. Nor were they intended to be representative. They do however, show that racism can exist at high levels of sports, contrary to what someone said earlier. And overt racism isn't really needed to deny opportunities to minorities. Unconscious or even rational racism is much more prevalent and just as dangerous.



I think with bball you are talking about different boosters and different level of booster involvement. Basketball coaches do not drive donations to the same degree that football coaches do. And someone with unconscious racism may have a different estimation of a black person's ability to coach basketball compared to football. Consider the NFL vs. NBA for demonstrating and reinforcing this possibility:

01-02 NBA: blacks made up 78% of players and 48% of head coaches
01-02 NFL: blacks made up 65% of players and 6% of head coaches

Kentucky basketball I guarantee you is driving the majority of all athletic donations at UK

 

[AKAK]

Before the Rooney Rule, black head coaches made up only 6% of NFL head coaches. They now make up 22%. Before 2004, there had never been more than 3 black head coaches at a time. There are now 7. Whether the Rooney Rule has created that change or simply sped up that change, the difference is pretty stark.

Well... lets see...

Who do we have...


Marvin Lewis, Pre Rooney, really... coach since '03- Had interviews prior to '03

Tony Dungy... 'Recycled from TB" HC since '96.

Romeo Crennel was interviewed by 5 teams in '03. Didn't get a job until he got the Browns job. But at any rate was as qualified as Charlie Weis.

Herm Edwards, Jets coach since '01.

Lovie Smith, hired by the Bears on '04 in a no brainer hire.

Mike Singletary- In season promotion... Did the 49ers have an interview process?

Mike Tomlin- Well, since the Rooney's hired him, I tend to think they would have done some without the Rooney rule.

Bottom line is, I don't know that any of these guys was specifically helped by the Rooney rule... at all. Lovie Smith had a monster resume. Really, if I had to pick one guy, it would probably be Crennel... might have had those 5 interviews during '03 that might have helped him. The rest would be where they are anyway, I believe.

(Made a tongue-in-cheek comment on Tomlin... but.. he was likely the least qualified candidate when he was hired as the Steelers HC)