Barry Bonds (Juiced Merge)

[Buckeyeskickbuttocks]

In the respect that the reason people care is because of the record that is true but it is also true that the reason they care IMO is that they don't want the record broken and/or they don't want it sullied , or dirtied if you will, which is why I say his records should be expunged.
The players should all be held to a higher standard to protect the integrity of the game which is just about shattered now. If they don't it could concievably break the pro game as we know it.
It is is one of the reasons that I have been soured on pro BB for a long time.
True he can hit too but I have to question how much of it is steroids at his age.

Well, it's not like you take roids and get power automatically. you still have to work out, as I understand it. roids help with muscle building and recovery time, but it's not like you shoot up and become huge. Likewise, Ruben Sierra .. like football's David Boston.. proved that you can be too big to hit effectively.

I understand your concerns, and I agree. But, baseball... hell.. sports never has been pure. That doesn't make it right, but the fact is.. if you start expunging records ... well..where do you stop? What cheating is OK? How many of Roger Clemans Wins and Ks do we question because he might have taken Steroids? Schmidt took "greenies" do we wipe out his stats? Dave Parker? And then personalities...Mickey Mantle was an alcoholic. We probably shouldn't consider him among the games best... Ty Cobb killed a man and was a racist...

I don't believe we can do what you propose, because once started, it can't be stopped.


I absolutely agree that Roids should be banned from baseball... and all sports. But, I still can't begrudge a player for the era he played in, even if he took part. I'd rather if Griff never got all those injuries, because I truly believe he'd be setting the HR record right now if he had been healthy. I hope A-Rod stays healthy, cause he should end with 800 or so... Pujols and Howard, while a LONG way off, have chances...

 

[Buckeyeskickbuttocks]

The game is far from shattered...if it was being shattered their wouldn't be record #'s at the gates....a mjority of the baseball fans don't want the record broken b/c an arrogant jerk-off who turned the twighlight of his career into the prime of his career w/ performance-enhancing drugs is about to take the record from a pioneer who fought his way through bigotry to set an "unbeatbale record"

Frankly, you could have stopped this at "arrogant jerk" If Bonds was likable, people would either look the other way (Like they did with Big Mac) or give him a second chance like they did with Giambi.

 

[billmac91]

"Yes, I'll give you the importance of bat speed, but Bonds didn't have a slow bat before roids. Harder baseballs might have had something to do with the jump in dingers as well. Bottom line for me is this.... everyone is all upset with Bonds for cheating. No one seems upset when a KNOWN spitballer, ball scuffer, etc. gets in to the hall.. oh.. those crazy cheating pitchers... ha ha ha.. Fact is this... there is a LONG history of cheating in baseball. Bonds isn't new. I'm not condoning roids, but at the end of the day, it's just carrying on the tradition in baseball of trying to get an edge outside of the rules (and, actually, in the case of Roids, for the bulk of the "Roid era" it was NOT against the rules - even if illegal in the US)"

(Sorry, I originally quoted the wrong quote)

I think pitchers and batters is apples to oranges..especially when roids is in the equation...truthfully, I do get a kick out of hearing about 3rd baseman with files or blades in their gloves to scuff the ball up on a strike-out when the ball gets thrown down by the catcher.....or dripping your hair with water every inning so you can add weight to a curve....whatever, at least dudes like Gaylord Perry weren't injecting roids or putting a chemical called "the clear" under their tongue

I know some pitchers did juice, but those that did, screw em....it's one thing when a sub-par or average pitcher juices and another when the arguablly best player/hitter of the decade chemically enhances himself and makes his head and feet grow bigger

 

[Buckeyeskickbuttocks]

By the way, none of what I've said applies to the case of Sammy Sosa. Fuck him.

 

[Buckeyeskickbuttocks]

I think pitchers and batters is apples to oranges..especially when roids is in the equation...truthfully, I do get a kick out of hearing about 3rd baseman with files or blades in their gloves to scuff the ball up on a strike-out when the ball gets thrown down by the catcher.....or dripping your hair with water every inning so you can add weight to a curve....whatever, at least dudes like Gaylord Perry weren't injecting roids or putting a chemical called "the clear" under their tongue

I know some pitchers did juice, but those that did, screw em....it's one thing when a sub-par or average pitcher juices and another when the arguablly best player/hitter of the decade chemically enhances himself and makes his head and feet grow bigger

I dont know, picking up 5mph on your fastball after the age of 30 screams something to me... but... no one cares... I suppose if pitcher x was at 5,714 Ks and needed just one more, people might care about the juiced pitcher more.

 

[billmac91]

Frankly, you could have stopped this at "arrogant jerk" If Bonds was likable, people would either look the other way (Like they did with Big Mac) or give him a second chance like they did with Giambi.

Yeah, maybe....don't you think of those guys were about to break the record they'd be getting a shitload of critisicsm though? I mean, Big Mac has practically disappeared off the face of globe, most likely b/c of the negative pub he takes wherever he goes......Giambi did get back in the good graces of fans, but he also had a life-threatening illness prob b/c of HGH and has also sucked/broken down the last 2 years

If it weren't Barry breaking the record, and say Big Mac or Giambi thered still be an extrodianary amount of pissed off people

 

[billmac91]

By the way, none of what I've said applies to the case of Sammy Sosa. Fuck him.

Nothing would make my day like a Curt Schilling positive test......by the way, I think its interesting that Roger Clemens does face a small amount of heat and it seems to be growing amongst the major media, not that anything will probably come of it

The other thing is, baseball purists for so long said roids would hinder a pitcher not help b/c themuscles in his shoulder would break down easier (or whatever they used to say) is now becoming a myth...especially with new enhancements in the performing enhancement drug business, where a certain roid will help you heal quicker, or allow you to do more reps of an exercise, or whatever else they're now capable of

I could be worng, but I don't think there was muvh of a selection 10 years ago w/ the exception of anabolic roids...again I could be wrong, but I think Victor Conte and his comrades really opened a new can of worms

 

[scooter1369]

that is why I said "in this case". He is acting like a spoiled child regarding his precious record being broke. Barry Bonds is a better all-around player than Aaron ever was, steroids or not. Few baseball people would dispute that.

This is the single most ridiculous thing I have ever read in my life.

 

[NFBuck]

This is the single most ridiculous thing I have ever read in my life.

That says something considering some of the crap jeffcat spews.

 

[scooter1369]

That says something considering some of the crap jeffcat spews.

Yeah, well, Jeffcat is in his own league, isn't he?

 

[The Man]

This is the single most ridiculous thing I have ever read in my life.

it's true, like it or not. There have been other articles saying pretty much the same thing, so others must be as ridiculous as me...... What part do you find ridiculous? There really is little argument that Barry is a better player, so I assume it was the spoiled child part?

 

[Buckeyeskickbuttocks]

it's true, like it or not. There have been other articles saying pretty much the same thing, so others must be as ridiculous as me...... What part do you find ridiculous? There really is little argument that Barry is a better player, so I assume it was the spoiled child part?

Re: modern articles... are you trying to sell your posts as they do magazines?

Little argument? Did you see BuckeyeMike's breakdown? Even if it's just a little argument it's convincing. here

 

[scooter1369]

Another interesting article about Bonds' homerun chase. Is the chase bogus because of steroids or his mechanical elbow brace?

 

[scooter1369]

it's true, like it or not.

that would be your opinion based on, well, nothing substantial

There have been other articles saying pretty much the same thing, so others must be as ridiculous as me......

In a word "yes"

What part do you find ridiculous? There really is little argument that Barry is a better player, so I assume it was the spoiled child part?

The "spoiled child" comment is simply ludicrous, not just ridiculous. Hank has no obligation to be anywhere. Would it nice if he was there? Sure. But his effort to distance himself from what is obviously a tainted record and prick of a baseball player is quite simply his prerogative. He owes Barry Bonds absolutely nothing.

Were it Ken Griffey Jr., Cal Ripken Jr., or Frank Thomas sitting at 755 right now, I believe Hank would make every effort to be there. The fact that he refuses to extend the same courtesy to Bonds speaks volumes about Bonds and less about Hank.

 

[NewYorkBuck]

Were it Ken Griffey Jr., Cal Ripken Jr., or Frank Thomas sitting at 755 right now, I believe Hank would make every effort to be there. The fact that he refuses to extend the same courtesy to Bonds speaks volumes about Bonds and less about Hank.

Why should Hank give a shit? God knows no one else does......