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Barry Bonds (Juiced Merge)

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screw em , eXpunge the records as if hey never played. people that think it is ok for one reason or another only make the problem worse so it would be better to end it now and start over. Golic was arguing for bonds for those very reason today on M and M. Thats BS MBL better get it straightned out now whle there is time. people are getting more and more disenchanted over it as it is.
 
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The Man;897315; said:
that is why I said "in this case". He is acting like a spoiled child regarding his precious record being broke. Barry Bonds is a better all-around player than Aaron ever was, steroids or not. Few baseball people would dispute that.
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wow wow wow wow wow :shake:

Aaron has the 3rd most hits ever (behind Rose and Cobb), Bonds has 2912.

Aaron has the most RBIs ever, Bonds is 5th and over 300 behind him.

Of course they are both tied in career homers now.

In the end it's debatable I guess, but Bonds needed chemical help to even get into Aaron's neighborhood statistically and that came at the expense of his mobility and defense.

Look I'm NOT saying that Bonds wasn't a Hall of Famer pre-roids, because he most certainly was.

No one forced him to put the "flaxseed oil" in his system.
 
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The Man;897315; said:
that is why I said "in this case". He is acting like a spoiled child regarding his precious record being broke. Barry Bonds is a better all-around player than Aaron ever was, steroids or not. Few baseball people would dispute that.
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The question that popped into my mind is , would Bonds have been a better player,if he is, without the steroids?
 
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Best Buckeye;897326; said:
The question that popped into my mind is , would Bonds have been a better player,if he is, without the steroids?
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I'd say pretty much. Roids maybe have let him play some games he would have been DLd for, but in terms of hitting... eh... it's not like an extra 10 feet per 400 foot shot makes much difference.

Edit - I took "Better player" to mean better than he is now, not better than Aaron. And meant to say "He'd be essentially the same with as without" I see now I completely misread your post.
 
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Buckeyeskickbuttocks;897327; said:
I'd say pretty much. Roids maybe have let him play some games he would have been DLd for, but in terms of hitting... eh... it's not like an extra 10 feet per 400 foot shot makes much difference.

Edit - I took "Better player" to mean better than he is now, not better than Aaron. And meant to say "He'd be essentially the same with as without" I see now I completely misread your post.
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:biggrin::tongue2:
 
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its been said Roids do help bat speed, which makes an icredible amount of difference.....on top of that, you don't go 40 something jacks to 74 w/o some help at the exact time the reporters who wrote "Game of Shadows" said he began using
 
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This might be a helpful picture

Roger Maris breaks the single season HR record. *


Barry Bonds breaks the all time HR record because of steroids.
asterisks1mh6.jpg
 
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billmac91;897333; said:
its been said Roids do help bat speed, which makes an icredible amount of difference.....on top of that, you don't go 40 something jacks to 74 w/o some help at the exact time the reporters who wrote "Game of Shadows" said he began using
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Yes, I'll give you the importance of bat speed, but Bonds didn't have a slow bat before roids. Harder baseballs might have had something to do with the jump in dingers as well. Bottom line for me is this.... everyone is all upset with Bonds for cheating. No one seems upset when a KNOWN spitballer, ball scuffer, etc. gets in to the hall.. oh.. those crazy cheating pitchers... ha ha ha.. Fact is this... there is a LONG history of cheating in baseball. Bonds isn't new. I'm not condoning roids, but at the end of the day, it's just carrying on the tradition in baseball of trying to get an edge outside of the rules (and, actually, in the case of Roids, for the bulk of the "Roid era" it was NOT against the rules - even if illegal in the US)
 
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Best Buckeye;897340; said:
Ahh the old "everyone else is doing it so its ok arguement, well that is BS if MLB wants to clean up its act, which they had better do.
Someone better make players in any sport mind their p's and q's . It is too screwed up now.
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Not at all. Just saying the only reason people have their shorts all in a bunch is because Bonds is going to take the HR record. Who gave a shit when Ken Camaniti (Sp) died? No one cared when Juan Rincon tested positive for Roids... and why? Because these guys weren't getting any records.

The closest my position comes to 'everyone is doing it' is that because everyone was doing it, the numbers are relatively consistent. Roided up batters against roided up pitchers... advantage? Wash.

Of course Roids should be out of baseball (and all other sports), but that doesn't hurt Bonds, so far as I'm concerned. The guy may be a prick, and an arrogant piece of shit... but the fucker can hit.
 
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obviously dude can hit, but the overwhelming evidence shows what roids did for him..you dont go from 44 homers or whatevr the exact # was to 74 w/o some help in your late 30's...you can say roided up pitchers against roided up hitters, but if Barry is juicing and 30% of the pitchers were juicing he still has a huge advantage...beyond that, i'd take non-juiced Barry over a juiced pitcher, so juice vs. juice, I still give a major advantage to Barry

Nobdoy says this guy couldn't play.....it just sucks a known cheater is about to claim a record from a well-respected, honorable player and human being
 
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In the respect that the reason people care is because of the record that is true but it is also true that the reason they care IMO is that they don't want the record broken and/or they don't want it sullied , or dirtied if you will, which is why I say his records should be expunged.
The players should all be held to a higher standard to protect the integrity of the game which is just about shattered now. If they don't it could concievably break the pro game as we know it.
It is is one of the reasons that I have been soured on pro BB for a long time.
True he can hit too but I have to question how much of it is steroids at his age.
 
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The game is far from shattered...if it was being shattered their wouldn't be record #'s at the gates....a mjority of the baseball fans don't want the record broken b/c an arrogant jerk-off who turned the twighlight of his career into the prime of his career w/ performance-enhancing drugs is about to take the record from a pioneer who fought his way through bigotry to set an "unbeatbale record"
 
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billmac91;897348; said:
obviously dude can hit, but the overwhelming evidence shows what roids did for him..you dont go from 44 homers or whatevr the exact # was to 74 w/o some help in your late 30's...you can say roided up pitchers against roided up hitters, but if Barry is juicing and 30% of the pitchers were juicing he still has a huge advantage...beyond that, i'd take non-juiced Barry over a juiced pitcher, so juice vs. juice, I still give a major advantage to Barry

Nobdoy says this guy couldn't play.....it just sucks a known cheater is about to claim a record from a well-respected, honorable player and human being
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Oh, I agree that I'd prefer if Aaron kept the record. But, my preference has little to do with it.
 
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