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Anyone capable of discussing gas without politics? Anyone?

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It's a fact, no car despite what they tell you, requires premium gasoline
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Expanding on what Nasty said - with a few modifications you could run your car on alcohol too.....for a short time. Trust me, if you have a high compression ratio and drive aggresively or on a lot of hilly terrain, at best you will cook your intake valves due to pre-ignition. I know because I have seen it. In extreme cases I have seen actual holes bored through the piston domes from pre-ignition.

If I had a $60k+ car with a high compression ratio, I sure wouldnt risk major engine damage and loads of performance by saving a few dimes per gallon when I fill up.

I had an RX-7 that if you put anything but premium gas in would lurch and become undrivable until you treated the lower-grade gas in it.
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You bet, and this is a function of the RX-7s rotary engine. With a rotary, it is worse than just the valves being opened during pre-ignition. With the rotary, the rotor acts as the actual combustion chamber itself as well as the valves. If the ignition timing isnt perfect, you will have combusion without a closed chamber, and consequently all of the power will be lost in blow by gases. Hence, your "lurching".
 
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kinch said:
Not to bring you down, but the Energy Department says that the production of ANWR oil will bring down oil prices by less than 50 cents a barrel, or about 1%.

It will decrease our consumption at PEAK production of ANWR from 70% imported to 66% imported. The Gulf of Mexico production has more effect.

A lot of people are messing with statistics on this thing. (lies, damned lies. . .)

Still, I am for drilling just because it affects a miniscule part of ANWR and it will also keep the pipeline working, where otherwise the pipeline may economically become unfeasible, as production will drop. Any bit helps, but most of the bad statistics play is coming from spinning kids on this one. . .
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1. Is your Dept of Energy estimate based on when we were paying $35 / barrel, or $56 / barrel like we are right now?
2. We import oil from other sources than OPEC
3. I did not say we would be able to reduce OPEC imports to zero, because we would need more than 30 years to empty the ANWR reserve. Just take the 18B barrels (a Dept of Energy estimate) divided by how much we curently import from OPEC per year, and you get 30 years.
4. Is everyone who states a fact in a way with which you don't agree a "liar"?
5. I'm all for alternatives (at least practical ones) as well, and would like to see our cars' avg MPG steadily increase - but has anyone considered that if we were all getting 20% increased MPG, that as a country we would also end up driving more miles per year? Rather than saying "I have more money in my pocket" this country would be saying "I have more gas in my tank - let's go!". Consumption would not be affected as much as we might hope.
6. A lot of people who claim to be environmentalists are always messing with statistics. The Alaska pipeline was supposed to wipe out untold herds of Caribou. Those same herds are now 5 times greater than they were before the pipeline was constructed. In the 60's the concern was actually for "Global cooling" - now, of course, "Global warming" is all the rage. I don't think the earth gives a s*** one way or the other what we do - She will be around long after we are gone.

NewYorkBuck said:
Expanding on what Nasty said - with a few modifications you could run your car on alcohol too.....for a short time. Trust me, if you have a high compression ratio and drive aggresively or on a lot of hilly terrain, at best you will cook your intake valves due to pre-ignition. I know because I have seen it. In extreme cases I have seen actual holes bored through the piston domes from pre-ignition.

If I had a $60k+ car with a high compression ratio, I sure wouldnt risk major engine damage and loads of performance by saving a few dimes per gallon when I fill up.



You bet, and this is a function of the RX-7s rotary engine. With a rotary, it is worse than just the valves being opened during pre-ignition. With the rotary, the rotor acts as the actual combustion chamber itself as well as the valves. If the ignition timing isnt perfect, you will have combusion without a closed chamber, and consequently all of the power will be lost in blow by gases. Hence, your "lurching".
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Hey, NYB, I listen to "CAr Talk" all the time. Which one are you? :wink2:
 
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NightmaresDad said:
1. Is your Dept of Energy estimate based on when we were paying $35 / barrel, or $56 / barrel like we are right now?
2. We import oil from other sources than OPEC
3. I did not say we would be able to reduce OPEC imports to zero, because we would need more than 30 years to empty the ANWR reserve. Just take the 18B barrels (a Dept of Energy estimate) divided by how much we curently import from OPEC per year, and you get 30 years.
4. Is everyone who states a fact in a way with which you don't agree a "liar"?
5. I'm all for alternatives (at least practical ones) as well, and would like to see our cars' avg MPG steadily increase - but has anyone considered that if we were all getting 20% increased MPG, that as a country we would also end up driving more miles per year? Rather than saying "I have more money in my pocket" this country would be saying "I have more gas in my tank - let's go!". Consumption would not be affected as much as we might hope.
6. A lot of people who claim to be environmentalists are always messing with statistics. The Alaska pipeline was supposed to wipe out untold herds of Caribou. Those same herds are now 5 times greater than they were before the pipeline was constructed. In the 60's the concern was actually for "Global cooling" - now, of course, "Global warming" is all the rage. I don't think the earth gives a s*** one way or the other what we do - She will be around long after we are gone.
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1. The estimate was from ~ April 2004. I don’t how it would affect the current prices, but as the production is proportional, my first instinct would be to say that the price effect would be as well, or about 1% (but 75 cents instead of 50 cents or whatever).

2. True.

3. The current estimate at the Department of Energy site puts the amount of oil at 10.3 billion barrels (the mean of the estimates).
The peak production per day is estimated by the Department of Energy at 876,000 per day – in 2025.
According to the department of energy, at PEAK production we will drop from 70% imported oil to 66%. That’s just what they said.
You can’t just divide the total amount of oil by years – you have to be able to get the oil as fast as you want to do that, and that isn’t the case.

4. Nobody is a liar. I called nobody a liar. If you are referring to my “(lies, damned lies. . .)” comment, I was alluding to an incredibly famous phrase about statistics: “there are lies, damned lies, and statistics.”

5. I totally agree. If we increase efficiency by 20% half or so of the increase will go to increased usage. Or even all of it at a certain level, and eventually tapering off. I am not sure what the correlation would be, but I am sure consumption would go up with efficiency to a point.

6. Totally agree again. Everyone messes with statistics. Hence the “lies, damned lies. . .” stuff.

In case you didn't catch it, I wasn't talking about you, but rather about those that mess with statistics to support their view-- on both sides (I am for the drilling, remember). The Bush administration has enforced greater control over the executive institutions than any administration in the past, which is fine. This should also mean that the government's own estimates are probably not totally against the drilling. . .
 
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I'm at $1.99 as of today... and I'm usually one of the highest in Jersey... near Rutgers it's up to $1.86

No Self Serve in Jersey... against the law to pump your own...
 
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gbearbuck said:
time to get a motorcycle and get 40mpg :tongue2: (just saying that I can feel my wife's glare)...
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get a Vespa :)

VGP-VESPAGT200_z.jpg
 
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