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Anti-trust lawsuit against NCAA

If it were ok for college athletes to get a free tatt or a pizza for signing an autograph, I'd probably agree with you. It's just hard for me to ignore the hypocrisy. It's ok for a bowl sponsor to give you a gift bag with an xbox one but don't you dare try to get a free tshirt or we'll strip your eligibility.
I don't know if it's necessarily the best choice among what is almost certainly a group of imperfect options, but I don't see it as hypocritical to say that bowl sponsors can give gifts to players but fans and random people can't.

It's probably not very difficult to regulate the conditions under which BestBuy gives xbox's to Sugar Bowl participants. But it would be damn difficult, probably impossible, to regulate the conditions under which fans and random people give gifts to players. Which isn't a problem if you think that's something that shouldn't be regulated. But if you think unlimited cash boosterism would be bad for the game, the difficulty in allowing some, but not-too-much, is a significant issue.

Fans, boosters, and random people are going to give players gifts and freebies no matter what. But if you formally allow it, or permit it up to some arbitrary point, you're going to get a lot more of it, and a lot of people looking hard for loopholes in whatever arbitrary limit you set (that wasn't a thirty-thousand dollar gift, that was a collection of $100 gifts sent by three-hundred well-meaning fans).

So, I don't think it's hypocrisy that causes the NCAA to allow, say, the 2014 Buckeyes to accept free xbox's from BestBuy, Inc. as a bowl participation "award", but to prohibit any player from accepting a free xbox or even a free sandwich from Louis, the BestBuy employee. It's because they can reasonably define and control the first situation, but have no prayer of controlling the second.
 
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So, I don't think it's hypocrisy that causes the NCAA to allow, say, the 2014 Buckeyes to accept free xbox's from BestBuy, Inc. as a bowl participation "award", but to prohibit any player from accepting a free xbox or even a free sandwich from Louis, the BestBuy employee. It's because they can reasonably define and control the first situation, but have no prayer of controlling the second.

What about if Joe Porkington III decides to sponser a bowl game with his car dealership? And he gives all the players a car? Is there a limit to the gifts they can receive? If so, then never mind.
 
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What about if Joe Porkington III decides to sponser a bowl game with his car dealership? And he gives all the players a car? Is there a limit to the gifts they can receive? If so, then never mind.

Yes, there's a gift-bag total-value limit for every bowl, which was $550 for last season's bowls, although bowls probably get to value their merchandise at bulk prices rather than retail.
 
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What about if Joe Porkington III decides to sponser a bowl game with his car dealership? And he gives all the players a car? Is there a limit to the gifts they can receive? If so, then never mind.
From this 2012 article, "The NCAA allows each bowl to award up to $550 worth of gifts to 125 participants per school." Although, I think if the bowl sponsor's name is Porkington, no one's going to second-guess him.
 
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Yes, there's a gift-bag total-value limit for every bowl, which was $550 for last season's bowls, although bowls probably get to value their merchandise at bulk prices rather than retail.

From this 2012 article, "The NCAA allows each bowl to award up to $550 worth of gifts to 125 participants per school." Although, I think if the bowl sponsor's name is Porkington, no one's going to second-guess him.

$550 is going to get you a crappy car.
Thanks guys.
 
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Wolverines already get easy access to comp cars as part of the Work-Study program towards their degrees.

zap-xebra-photo-111064-s-1280x782.jpg
 
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I don't know if it's necessarily the best choice among what is almost certainly a group of imperfect options, but I don't see it as hypocritical to say that bowl sponsors can give gifts to players but fans and random people can't.

It's probably not very difficult to regulate the conditions under which BestBuy gives xbox's to Sugar Bowl participants. But it would be damn difficult, probably impossible, to regulate the conditions under which fans and random people give gifts to players. Which isn't a problem if you think that's something that shouldn't be regulated. But if you think unlimited cash boosterism would be bad for the game, the difficulty in allowing some, but not-too-much, is a significant issue.

Fans, boosters, and random people are going to give players gifts and freebies no matter what. But if you formally allow it, or permit it up to some arbitrary point, you're going to get a lot more of it, and a lot of people looking hard for loopholes in whatever arbitrary limit you set (that wasn't a thirty-thousand dollar gift, that was a collection of $100 gifts sent by three-hundred well-meaning fans).

So, I don't think it's hypocrisy that causes the NCAA to allow, say, the 2014 Buckeyes to accept free xbox's from BestBuy, Inc. as a bowl participation "award", but to prohibit any player from accepting a free xbox or even a free sandwich from Louis, the BestBuy employee. It's because they can reasonably define and control the first situation, but have no prayer of controlling the second.
They don't have a prayer of limiting "giifts" now. The problem is that programs and players that abide ridiculous rules don't get anything. Those that don't take the NCAA seriously get new churches and free suits, amongst other things.
 
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Who the hell in any union (public or private sector) is guaranteed health care for life after only four (or possibly fewer) years on the job?

Depends - are we dealing with super-spoiled AFGE workers? :biggrin:

I think what will happen is the NCAA will guarantee treatment for injuries sustained and reasonably expected to have been contributed to during their playing days. As with most things, it will come down to documentation and how its presented and it will mean the exit physical within the team will become very important (and somewhat similar to what happens when you separate from the military)....
 
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They don't have a prayer of limiting "giifts" now. The problem is that programs and players that abide ridiculous rules don't get anything. Those that don't take the NCAA seriously get new churches and free suits, amongst other things.
While I disagree with your second sentence (because players who abide the rules do get quite a few things, just not as much as you might think they should), what you're saying there suggests that the NCAA does limit the extent to which random people give athletes free stuff. While the NCAA certainly doesn't eliminate that from happening, they do limit it. So it seems like maybe the only place we disagree is either i) whether the NCAA should make any effort to stop people from giving athletes free stuff or just allow it to happen without limit, or ii) whether the NCAA should set up some new system of rules that allows random people to give free stuff to athletes under certain conditions, whether amount or whatever else. In the case of option ii, I would argue that the rules would likely be more convoluted and difficult to enforce than they are now and, in any event, you would still have people breaking them and accepting more than the rules allow, both intentionally and accidentally. As happens with any rule.
 
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CBS writer's take on the subject:

How does college sports solve the growing players movement?

Big 12 commissioner Bob Bowlsby let out a sigh.

The wheels are turning in college athletics. Northwestern players have tried to unionize, the Ed O'Bannon trial is scheduled for June, other lawsuits are getting started related to capping the value of college athletes, and two Congressional hearings are coming over the next week. Meanwhile, everyone involved in college athletics struggles to turn the NCAA ship.

“A number of things we're working on right now -- litigation, restructuring the NCAA -- it's going to be a very long horizon before they're solved,” Bowlsby said Wednesday. “I wish I had a crystal ball. You'd be more than willing to do the work if you knew where it was going to end. But we don't so we're slogging through it.”

How exactly are all of these issues going to be solved in the coming years? The players' movement, aided by powerful lawyers eyeing money and a steelworkers union that could use fresh blood, shows no sign of weakening.

The confluence of players-rights issues in a highly-litigious environment wasn't lost on administrators and coaches this week at the Big 12, Pac-12, Mountain West and MAC spring meetings. They said the right things. They talked publicly about the need to provide more benefits for college athletes while laboring on the details.

The irony of working inside the lavish Arizona Biltmore Resort & Spa to find money in budgets for athletes' benefits wasn't lost on observers either.

Congress and its high-paid officials will get involved Thursday with a House committee hearing to discuss the recent National Labor Relations Board decision that Northwestern football players are employees. Stanford athletic director Bernard Muir is among the witnesses who will testify, although he deferred discussing what he will say Thursday on Capitol Hill.

On May 14, O'Bannon, North Carolina academic whistleblower Mary Willingham and Houston Texans running back Arian Foster will be among the witnesses to testify at a Senate committee hearing. NCAA President Mark Emmert has been invited to attend. The committee will examine whether the commercial operation of college athletics unfairly exploits college athletes, including issues related to their education.

Both sides of the debate over giving athletes more rights and compensation agree on this point: There's not a whole lot of faith that Congress will solve anything.

“Would I like government involvement? Absolutely, if it can absolutely help get a solution to a problem,” said Sonny Vaccaro, the former shoe marketer turned O'Bannon lawsuit consultant. “This particular fight is not a political fight, which you know it's going to be. I would hope there are people in government who can put aside their political views and solve issues for thousands and thousands of athletes. That's why the courts would be a better solution.”

Said Bowlsby: “I think there are judicial solutions, there are legislative solutions and there probably associational solutions within the conferences and the NCAA. You can always count on Congress to hold hearings on anything that is high profile.”

The inclusion into this debate of Willingham, a former North Carolina reading specialist who resigned this week amid an academic scandal that involves athletes, strikes at the heart of college sports. Are enough athletes actually being educated as a tradeoff for participating in commercialized games inside a multi-billion-dollar industry?

Willingham said she plans to testify about more than 4,000 emails of support that she has received in the past five months from educators, athletic academic advisers, athletes and even one president. She said they tell her they've lived the same experiences of academic fraud in college sports.

“We need to not be afraid of the NCAA because as long as we stay afraid, then nothing will change,” Willingham said. “Nobody wants to go on the record, but I need them to start talking.”

How could money be distributed?

Arizona football coach Rich Rodriguez disagrees with the “woe is me” picture that's being described of college athletes. Yes, Rodriguez agrees, more should be done for them.

“I think everybody knows we can make it a little bit better -- and that's all we have to do is just make it a little bit better, whether it's allowing them three meals a day or a little extra stipend or paying for parents to come to games,” said Rodriguez, who would also support a percentage of jersey sales going to players after they graduate. “But I don't think we need to paint a picture that these student-athletes are living under a bridge.”

This is a common feeling among coaches.

“If everybody wants to be professionals, they can make everybody professionals but that also means the guys that don't do their job, we fire them, and the guys who do a great job, we give them raises,” Washington State football coach Mike Leach said.

Conference USA commissioner Britton Banowsky said he would support considering allowing athletes to receive licensing money that's put aside into a trust fund and collected later.

“I think we're going to have to look at that and we're going to have to find a way to make it happen within the collegiate space,” Banowsky said. “I'm a big advocate for rewarding student-athletes that are graduating and have made a contribution for four years. I do like the concept of those funds being captured at the end of the collegiate experience. It will be up to the legal process and legislative process to provide guidance on where it settles.”

That approach has some similarities to what renowned mediator Kenneth Feinberg described to SI.com about how he would distribute money to former college players if the O'Bannon and Sam Keller plaintiffs win their names, images and likenesses lawsuit against the NCAA.

The Former College Athletes Association (FCAA), which includes Feinberg on the board, would demand from the NCAA a share of revenue it generates from the commercial use of former college players. Feinberg told SI.com that the FCAA would only be for former college athletes — male and female — and not current ones. One of the FCAA's board members is Ramogi Huma, who is leading the efforts to unionize college athletes.

“I think it's very difficult to sift out real value as to who brings how much value to what,” Bowlsby said. “I think we also ought to be very careful to depart from the collegiate model. We're a function of higher education and should stay as close to that mission as we possibly can. Now, is there a way to put something in place after college or during college? We aren't very far down looking at that path. But this is not a time where should foreclose on any options.”

USC athletic director Pat Haden said a post-graduation licensing fund is a “possibility” as a new NCAA model gets discussed.

“So if you graduate you'll be back and have access to funds to finish your education and go to graduate schools,” Haden said. “That's potentially viable.”

‘Pandora's box' of paying players

Rodriguez offers a hypothetical question. Suppose colleges kept the status quo or gave players a cost of attendance or just a little bit more money for meals.

“Do you not think we'll always have players who want to play?” Rodriguez said. “Will they all of a sudden go on strike and say they're not going to play college football anymore? That's not going to happen. There will always be kids who want to play with the opportunity to play in huge stadiums with all these services and one day, if I'm good enough, I can play in the NFL.”

Stanford football coach David Shaw points out the positives of athletes leaving college without significant debt. He draws a line when asked whether college players should be allowed to reach their market value when it may never be higher for many of them.

Entire article: http://www.cbssports.com/collegefoo...ege-sports-solve-the-growing-players-movement
 
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The more I think about it the more I hope this is "the end of college athletics as we now know it." Much as I love to watch a game on campus, the cost to the university, and to the institution of higher education, is too great. What began as a simple expansion of student recreation has grown out of all proportion to the mission of colleges.

There can be no defense of the fact that in many states the college football and/or basketball coach is the highest paid employee on the state payroll. There can be no truth behind a university's mission statement if head coaches make four times the salary of the president and assistant coaches salaries far exceed what is paid to professors.

There can be no defense of the behaviors tolerated by great schools to keep athletes, coaches, and programs eligible; from sheltering pedophiles, to distorting justice to protect rapists and thugs, to creating phantom degree programs, to the pretense of student athlete. Sports have become a cancer that continually gnaw at the ethos colleges should have and cherish.

A few years back there was an interview in the local rag of a newspaper, a former college athlete went down the line up of his 1956 team and listed what each player had become in their adult lives: doctors, lawyers, teachers, businessmen, engineers, military officers... each player had achieved a position that held the potential to move society forward. He ended his listing by asking the reporter what would be found if the same scrutiny were applied to his school's current rosters knowing full well the answer.

I have no quarrel with the notion of seeking excellence in athletics, or in athletes and coaches making as much money as the market will bear. Let the professional leagues provide their own farm system. Let the nation decide if we need a paid training situation to groom Olympic athletes. But let's not confuse the goals of athletic entertainment with the purpose of a university.
 
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The hardest thing for me in all of this, is this notion that there is no value to the college education, amongst other benefits, that they have the chance to receive at no cost for playing a given sport. Any parent/student that has or is paying for tuition realizes the enormity of paying these costs and the implied value. For me personally, watching a child who got better than a 4.0 in a highly rated college prep high school in an IB path, played sports, volunteered, and best of all was a model kid get nothing for college, I see the talk of unionizing, payment, etc. as a huge slap in the face.

As much as I love and support the Buckeyes and love watching college sports, I am pretty much there with Cinci on this.
 
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