Anti-trust lawsuit against NCAA

[cincibuck]

Yeah, the CFL and the Arena league failed. BUT the All-American Football Conference put three of it's eight teams into the NFL - Browns, 49ers, and Colts. A fourth, the LA Dons, merged with the Rams. The AFL forced the NFL into a full-fledged merger. Point two is that none of these attempted to be an alternative to college football. Point three would be that Arena football is arena football - Football equivalent of the World Wrestling Federation and Tractor Pulls in places too small for the real thing.

Take out college athletics and you take out the NFL and NBA being able to use colleges as minor/training leagues. You would now have minor league franchises taking on much of the personnel risk that the big guys count on colleges to do for them AND you have open air time for networks to fill. I don't think America is ready for soccer Saturday in the fall or even rugby union in winter. Take big time college sports out of the picture and I think you have a very viable market source that beats the hell out of reality TV... and baseball, and NBA basketball, and dancing with the stars.

But beyond that, you free colleges to get back to their real purpose - education.

 

[ORD_Buckeye]

Yeah, the CFL and the Arena league failed. BUT the All-American Football Conference put three of it's eight teams into the NFL - Browns, 49ers, and Colts. A fourth, the LA Dons, merged with the Rams. The AFL forced the NFL into a full-fledged merger. Point two is that none of these attempted to be an alternative to college football. Point three would be that Arena football is arena football - Football equivalent of the World Wrestling Federation and Tractor Pulls in places too small for the real thing.

Take out college athletics and you take out the NFL and NBA being able to use colleges as minor/training leagues. You would now have minor league franchises taking on much of the personnel risk that the big guys count on colleges to do for them AND you have open air time for networks to fill. I don't think America is ready for soccer Saturday in the fall or even rugby union in winter. Take big time college sports out of the picture and I think you have a very viable market source that beats the hell out of reality TV... and baseball, and NBA basketball, and dancing with the stars.

But beyond that, you free colleges to get back to their real purpose - education.

The Dude is not wrong here.

 

[Jaxbuck]

I haven't read every word of ORD's proposal for an NFL D league so forgive me if this has been covered but why do they have to switch names?

Why waste the hundreds of years of building a brand to then turn and call it the Columbus Snatch Hammers or some such thing?

I'd propose just having OSU own, or at the very least sponsor, an NFL D league team.

The business plan is much simpler and more likely to succeed that way;

1. OSU rents out the Buckeye name and Ohio Stadium
2. a 3rd party, oh lets say Urban Meyer Enterprises LLC, that knows how to run a football program pays them (rent/rev share)
3. Profit

All the name schools do this and you have a kick ass semi pro/D league that can be an NFL partner, not a rival.

 

[jwinslow]

I watched Radio because he was a superstar for the Texas Longhorns. If he skips college to play for the Albuquerque Chihuahuas neither you or I know who he is, because an NFL caliber coach for a true minor league team will have weeded his ass off the roster after two seasons once it's clear VY isn't much for book learning.

And because he plays against other college teams that we care about and that affect the teams we love and hate.

I'm not going to watch Torrance Gibson on a weekly basis if he plays for the Auburn Trees because I won't have any emotional investment in the outcome

 

[BUCKYLE]

And because he plays against other college teams that we care about and that affect the teams we love and hate.

I'm not going to watch Torrance Gibson on a weekly basis if he plays for the Auburn Trees because I won't have any emotional investment in the outcome

Shit, if he goes to Auburn University, I may end up watching only one or two games in his entire career.

 

[jwinslow]

The point was not that jersey sales are based primarily on the university brand or primarily on the performances and identities of individual players. It was that they are based substantially on both, in a way that is probably not quantitatively deconvolutable. Just as ticket sales, tv contracts, and all the other revenue streams deriving from football are.

The involvement of osu and football brands do nothing to change the reality of marketing that player. It just means there is an additional reason to buy a jersey. The other brands are so strong that the jersey plummets in price once they graduate.

All for a player who cannot receive spread for his bagel, water for his car wash or any money whatsoever based on his status as a player. Which drives these kids to profit off of their status through unsavory (and often orchestrated) channels by ORD's noble universities.

I think it was clear even to you that no one was suggesting it is coincidental that OSU sells jerseys with #5 on them. No one disputes that Universities profit from the performances and identities of their star players. That's largely the point of all the various forms of marketing that surround a revenue sport. The question was why jerseys with player numbers are a particularly objectionable way of doing it.

You're admitting that it's not a coincidence that they're selling player driven jerseys while simultaneously asking why that is objectionable?

My favorite video game is Ncaa football 14 because the players are depicted with incredible precision and detail for 97% of players with roster editors to fix any minor mistakes.

Everyone knows who the player is despite the lousy cover of forgetting to name the uniform or digital likeness.

 

[jwinslow]

[Mark May], if he goes to Auburn University, I may end up watching only one or two games in his entire career.

But if he's beating Alabama or in the seccg with title implications, I care a lot about the outcome.

 

[BUCKYLE]

The question was why jerseys with player numbers are a particularly objectionable way of doing it.

If it wasn't absurd to begin with, they'd put the player's name on it.

 

[BUCKYLE]

But if he's beating Alabama or in the seccg with title implications, I care a lot about the outcome.

Right. That would be one of the few games of his I'd actually watch.

 

[ORD_Buckeye]

I haven't read every word of ORD's proposal for an NFL D league so forgive me if this has been covered but why do they have to switch names?

Why waste the hundreds of years of building a brand to then turn and call it the Columbus Snatch Hammers or some such thing?

I'd propose just having OSU own, or at the very least sponsor, an NFL D league team.

The business plan is much simpler and more likely to succeed that way;

1. OSU rents out the Buckeye name and Ohio Stadium
2. a 3rd party, oh lets say Urban Meyer Enterprises LLC, that knows how to run a football program pays them (rent/rev share)
3. Profit

All the name schools do this and you have a kick ass semi pro/D league that can be an NFL partner, not a rival.

It's not the university's business or mission to be running professional sports organizations.

There would still be Ohio State football for student-athletes, and I think it would attract a great deal of elite talent. Just off the top of my head, I can think of All-American quality athletes from Spencer Nelms to Robert Smith to Eddie George to Laurenitis and Gonzalez (and I'm literally leaving out hundreds more) who would still see the value of choosing the college route as a possible path to the NFL.

Yes, there would be some dilution of talent from losing those who choose to go the minor league route, but you'd eliminate 99% of the academic fraud, thuggery and arrest reports in exchange for it.

 

[ORD_Buckeye]

All for a player who cannot receive spread for his bagel, water for his car wash or any money whatsoever based on his status as a player. Which drives these kids to profit off of their status through unsavory (and often orchestrated) channels by ORD's noble universities.

And I think it is an abomination that they are not allowed to make a living playing football and are channeled--forced really--into a system for which they have no interest and are unsuited just in order to prepare for the one career they might be good at. I'm just against destroying what little shred of dignity college football has left and furthering its corruption of higher education, so they can be paid by the universities.

The thought that I find abhorrent is that now not only are we going to make a complete charade of the student-athlete notion by bringing kids onto campus with third and fourth grade reading levels but will now magnify that by cutting them a paycheck too, possibly at the expense of the scholarship of that field hockey player or fencer who actually is a real student. I'd rather see college football shut down for good.

 

[cincibuck]

I haven't read every word of ORD's proposal for an NFL D league so forgive me if this has been covered but why do they have to switch names?

Why waste the hundreds of years of building a brand to then turn and call it the Columbus Snatch Hammers or some such thing?

I'd propose just having OSU own, or at the very least sponsor, an NFL D league team.

The business plan is much simpler and more likely to succeed that way;

1. OSU rents out the Buckeye name and Ohio Stadium
2. a 3rd party, oh lets say Urban Meyer Enterprises LLC, that knows how to run a football program pays them (rent/rev share)
3. Profit

All the name schools do this and you have a kick ass semi pro/D league that can be an NFL partner, not a rival.

And because he plays against other college teams that we care about and that affect the teams we love and hate.

I'm not going to watch Torrance Gibson on a weekly basis if he plays for the Auburn Trees because I won't have any emotional investment in the outcome

First thought after reading Jax post is remembering the Columbus Panhandlers with Frank Kremblas at QB when his name was still fresh in the minds of Buckeye followers. Their line up was filled with ex-OSU jocks but they couldn't draw jack.

Jax probably has what will eventually come to be. Rent-a-team is an old theme in college sports - see Purdue Boilermakers and "blessed" Saint Fielding Yost. The current Calipari one-and-done Kentucky teams are another example and I wish I could find the Robert Hutchins' quote about Michigan hiring a team of professionals to play his students when he made the decision to take Chicago out of Big Ten sports.

But it's Jwins quote on emotional attachments that will hold the college football system together for a while. There are strong emotional ties to many college programs. Ohio State, Michigan, Penn State, Nebraska and possibly Wisconsin can probably survive pay for play and compete, but I don't see the rest of the Big 10 continuing to meet the expense. To survive, mens' football and basketball will have to generate enough revenue to cover their own expenses - including facilities, coaches, transportation, recruiting, insurance - and the expenses of three or four womens' teams (Title IX). By dropping to basketball only they cut their need to supply 85 additional scholarships to female athletes.

Of those schools that can afford to do this- and for historical, social and geographical reasons I see only Michigan and Ohio State as the two current Big Ten teams that could do this for long- the schedules will look much different. There will be no 12 team conference to fill in dates. There will be no MAC and All American Conference teams to pull in for a season opener laugher.

Who of the surviving programs is going to continue to draw 100K per game when the schedule looks like this: At Texas, home with Tennessee, home with Auburn, at USC, home with aTm, at Alabama, at Oklahoma, home with Nebraska, at Michigan? A good team is going to be one or two games over 500. Hire a Rich Rod and your program could be toast in three years.

How long will Jwins and I have an emotional connection to a Buckeye team that wins only half of its games? It only took three years and half of Michigan Stadium was filled with scarlet and gray clad fans bearing "WE LOVE COACH RODRIGUEZ" signs. That speaks volumes about the need to win and the strength of emotions.

 

[Jaxbuck]

It's not the university's business or mission to be running professional sports organizations.

There would still be Ohio State football for student-athletes, and I think it would attract a great deal of elite talent. Just off the top of my head, I can think of All-American quality athletes from Spencer Nelms to Robert Smith to Eddie George to Laurenitis and Gonzalez (and I'm literally leaving out hundreds more) who would still see the value of choosing the college route as a possible path to the NFL.

Yes, there would be some dilution of talent from losing those who choose to go the minor league route, but you'd eliminate 99% of the academic fraud, thuggery and arrest reports in exchange for it.

That's just the thing. They aren't running a professional sports organization, they would be renting space to one. Pro sports teams rent out the concessions at the stadium to Aramark or whatever 3rd party vendor. It would be just like that.

As far as OSU (or any major college) fielding a team of actual scholar athletes, I think that's the biggest departure from what currently exists and therefore the least likely outcome. We currently have a lucrative, semi pro football system now in all but name. It's a lot easier to just tweak that that burn it all to the ground and start over.

 

[BUCKYLE]

With all due respect, Cinci, that's nonsense. If the eventual national champ is 7-3 instead of 9-1, who gives a shit? If tOSU is playing a schedule full of blue blood historical CFB powerhouses, I'm just as interested in watching as I am now. So maybe tOSU doesn't have 11 win seasons on the reg. Their record will be graded on a curve.

 

[cincibuck]

With all due respect, Cinci, that's nonsense. If the eventual national champ is 7-3 instead of 9-1, who gives a [Mark May]? If tOSU is playing a schedule full of blue blood historical CFB powerhouses, I'm just as interested in watching as I am now. So maybe tOSU doesn't have 11 win seasons on the reg. Their record will be graded on a curve.

And the TV revenue means there's no need for 100K in the stands - OK. And the Bengals/Browns/Cardinals/Raiders draw 25,000 despite their on field performance...