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2025 January through Fall Camp BMW Thread

didnt know where else to put this so im....

ARE THE BIG TWO BACK? Ohio State is the defending national champion. Michigan won* it the year before. Oregon may have claimed the Big Ten crown last season, and Penn State might look the part this fall, but let’s be honest – this conference still belongs to the Buckeyes and, I hate to write it, the Wolverines.

In a way, "The Big Two" are back.

That’s the premise of a recent feature from The Athletic’s Joe Rexrode, who traced how Ohio State and Michigan reclaimed center stage in the sport – and how Michigan State, once a legitimate threat to both, slowly faded into the middle.

It’s the story of Michigan and Ohio State rising to the top and dispatching Michigan State to the middle. The Wolverines and Buckeyes were bigger than disco in the ’70s, and by the end of the decade, the Spartans were forgotten like bellbottoms.
It wasn’t always that way. In the 1950s and 1960s, Michigan State was a prominent member of the Big Ten’s elite, winning national championships, churning out future head coaches and consistently beating Michigan. The Spartans went 14-4-2 against the Wolverines during those decades. They even outdrew Michigan in attendance during the 1960s, averaging more fans per game despite the Wolverines’ 100,001-seat stadium.

But the tide turned when Bo Schembechler, a former member of Woody Hayes’ staff, took over Michigan in 1969, kicking off The Ten Year War and turning The Game into the defining rivalry of college football.

A made-for-TV drama marked by bitter personal history was born. So was the most important rivalry in the sport.
Michigan State had dominated the Wolverines in the two decades prior, but Schembechler flipped the script. During his tenure in Ann Arbor, Michigan went 17-4 against the Spartans, erasing any illusions of parity between the programs.

Michigan created a gulf, in terms of finances and football, between themselves and the Spartans in the 1970s.
Then came the infamous 1973 Rose Bowl vote. After Michigan and Ohio State tied 10-10 in Ann Arbor, the Big Ten’s athletic directors had to choose which team would represent the conference in Pasadena. Michigan State AD Burt Smith – a Michigan alum – voted for Ohio State, swinging the decision and handing Bo one of the biggest grudges of his career.

Schembechler used the vote as a rallying cry before games against Michigan State for years to come… "You never forget a thing like that."
While Schembechler built Michigan State’s coffin, Hayes put in the nail. After a controversial loss to the Spartans in 1974, Woody submitted information to the NCAA that led to crushing sanctions: no postseason games and no TV appearances for three years – one of the harshest punishments the NCAA has ever imposed.

Hayes… was revenge-minded. He submitted information to the NCAA the following spring on Michigan State recruiting violations, which led to one of the most impactful punishments the association has handed out – three years with no postseason and no games on TV. This got Smith and Stolz fired. It meant the only team in the 1970s that got a piece of a Big Ten title other than Michigan or Ohio State, the 1978 Spartans coached by Darryl Rogers, couldn’t go to the Rose Bowl. It contributed to Rogers’ decision to leave for Arizona State. And it prompted Hayes to proclaim at Big Ten media days in 1976 of the Spartans: “I turned them in. Damn right, I did!”
Hayes’ power move came amid decades when Ohio State wasn’t just dominant on the field – it was dominating everywhere. In the 1960s, the Buckeyes led the country in attendance at over 82,000 per game, ahead of both in-state rivals. Bigger crowds. More wins. More national titles. The machine was humming in Columbus, and apart from a handful of miserable one-off seasons (see: 1988, 1999, 2011), the humming has never stopped.

The Big Ten might have grown to 18 schools and stretched across four time zones, but at its core, the story hasn’t changed. It’s still about Ohio State and Michigan and Michigan State’s role as the once-dangerous, now-faded third wheel.

The Big Two are back – and the Buckeyes never left.
 
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didnt know where else to put this so im....

ARE THE BIG TWO BACK? Ohio State is the defending national champion. Michigan won* it the year before. Oregon may have claimed the Big Ten crown last season, and Penn State might look the part this fall, but let’s be honest – this conference still belongs to the Buckeyes and, I hate to write it, the Wolverines.

In a way, "The Big Two" are back.

That’s the premise of a recent feature from The Athletic’s Joe Rexrode, who traced how Ohio State and Michigan reclaimed center stage in the sport – and how Michigan State, once a legitimate threat to both, slowly faded into the middle.


It wasn’t always that way. In the 1950s and 1960s, Michigan State was a prominent member of the Big Ten’s elite, winning national championships, churning out future head coaches and consistently beating Michigan. The Spartans went 14-4-2 against the Wolverines during those decades. They even outdrew Michigan in attendance during the 1960s, averaging more fans per game despite the Wolverines’ 100,001-seat stadium.

But the tide turned when Bo Schembechler, a former member of Woody Hayes’ staff, took over Michigan in 1969, kicking off The Ten Year War and turning The Game into the defining rivalry of college football.


Michigan State had dominated the Wolverines in the two decades prior, but Schembechler flipped the script. During his tenure in Ann Arbor, Michigan went 17-4 against the Spartans, erasing any illusions of parity between the programs.


Then came the infamous 1973 Rose Bowl vote. After Michigan and Ohio State tied 10-10 in Ann Arbor, the Big Ten’s athletic directors had to choose which team would represent the conference in Pasadena. Michigan State AD Burt Smith – a Michigan alum – voted for Ohio State, swinging the decision and handing Bo one of the biggest grudges of his career.


While Schembechler built Michigan State’s coffin, Hayes put in the nail. After a controversial loss to the Spartans in 1974, Woody submitted information to the NCAA that led to crushing sanctions: no postseason games and no TV appearances for three years – one of the harshest punishments the NCAA has ever imposed.


Hayes’ power move came amid decades when Ohio State wasn’t just dominant on the field – it was dominating everywhere. In the 1960s, the Buckeyes led the country in attendance at over 82,000 per game, ahead of both in-state rivals. Bigger crowds. More wins. More national titles. The machine was humming in Columbus, and apart from a handful of miserable one-off seasons (see: 1988, 1999, 2011), the humming has never stopped.

The Big Ten might have grown to 18 schools and stretched across four time zones, but at its core, the story hasn’t changed. It’s still about Ohio State and Michigan and Michigan State’s role as the once-dangerous, now-faded third wheel.

The Big Two are back – and the Buckeyes never left.
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just came by to say ... I hate fox so damn much, I hate the b1g so damn much and I fucking hate our AD for not fucking pushing harder to get out of these god forsaken noon (11am in God's Timezone) .... noon is the time when you play MAC teams and the shit tiers of other conferences... not your 3 biggest games...of the year (except SCUM because thats tradition but hey fuck tradition at this point, cause its all dead) it might be better that CFB is trending towards AAA NFL league... maybe then I wont care as much
 
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In fairness, OSU offered to push this years matchup to Sunday evening since NFL isn’t playing yet and it’s a holiday weekend.

Texas declined and said they’d prefer the original date/time.

I agree in general though….OSU shouldn’t be beholden to Saturday noon games in every top 5 matchup.
 
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A reminder - Our last three NC's were won with dual threat QB's:
2002 - Krenzel
2014 - Barrett / Jones
2025 - Howard

Just sayin': Probably in reality all 9 National Championships were won with a duel threat QB and/or a just Heisman Trophy RB:

Year Quarterback(s)
2024 Will Howard
2014 Cardale Jones
2002 Craig Krenzel
1970 Rex Kern
1968 Rex Kern
1961 Bill Mrukowski *
1957 Frank Kremblas **
1954 Dave Leggett ***
1942 Les Horvath
* William Mrukowski played 3 seasons for Ohio State. He threw for 325 yards and 1 touchdown.

** His career numbers at Ohio State were not very high because of how often Woody Hayes ran the football. Kremblas threw just 95 times in his career, completing 36 for 618 yards, three TDs and four interceptions. As a runner, he carried it 145 times for 466 yards and eight TDs.

*** Dave Leggett had more yards rushing than passing.

Leggett was most famous for his play in the 1954 Michigan game. Ohio State's undefeated season was on the line, with the score tied 7–7 in the fourth quarter. Michigan was on the Ohio State one yard line with a fourth down and went for it. Michigan pitched the ball to the right and on defense Leggett was a great safety and it was only him and the Michigan ball carrier at the end zone and as the Michigan back leaped for the end zone Leggett went for his legs and flipped the Michigan man over to stop him short of the end zone. With the ball on Ohio State's own one-yard-line, Leggett led the Buckeyes on a drive for the eventual game-winning touchdown...8D
 
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A reminder - Our last three NC's were won with dual threat QB's:
2002 - Krenzel
2014 - Barrett / Jones
2025 - Howard

Sayin is probably at least athletically equal to Krenzel if not more. Gotta remember the game was completely different in 2002 as well. I'm not sure if qualify Krenzel as a "dual threat" he could pick up those tough yards when we had to but he wasn't even close to JT Barrett as a runner. He was also a very average passer.
 
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Sayin is probably at least athletically equal to Krenzel if not more. Gotta remember the game was completely different in 2002 as well. I'm not sure if qualify Krenzel as a "dual threat" he could pick up those tough yards when we had to but he wasn't even close to JT Barrett as a runner. He was also a very average passer.
Krenzel was our leading rusher in our NC game against Miami.
 
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Krenzel was our leading rusher in our NC game against Miami.

That was a outlier though.

He only ran for over 30 yards 3 times in the regular season (62 vs Northwestern, 34 vs Texas Tech and 39 against Penn State)

He also averaged 2.9 YPC on the season......

Krenzel was very good at getting those crucial yards when he had to, but I think calling him a true dual threat is a big stretch. He certainly was no statue but he wasn't JT either.

The game was wildly different in 2002 as well as I said. No way would a QB with Krenzel stats/ability win a national title in current times.
 
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Sayin is probably at least athletically equal to Krenzel if not more. Gotta remember the game was completely different in 2002 as well. I'm not sure if qualify Krenzel as a "dual threat" he could pick up those tough yards when we had to but he wasn't even close to JT Barrett as a runner. He was also a very average passer.
I would put Jones in the same category. He got most of his yards in the Alabama game on two runs when plays broke down. I don't think Kirby Smart was thinking that Jones would pull the ball on a read option and run it. One factor was that he was the last QB standing and Ohio State wanted to limit the hits on him.
 
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In fairness, OSU offered to push this years matchup to Sunday evening since NFL isn’t playing yet and it’s a holiday weekend.

Texas declined and said they’d prefer the original date/time.

I agree in general though….OSU shouldn’t be beholden to Saturday noon games in every top 5 matchup.
Yea that means nothing. There should not had to been an offer. This should have been a 7pm start time after the Semi finals
 
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