2023 Bowl Games Discussion

[Tomateaux Quinoa Gumbeaux]

People whined and cried about "settling it on the field" championship-wise. But you NEVER are going to settle it because someone will say they got fucked out. What the fuck is wrong with winning the Big Ten, and then going to the Rose Bowl and winning that? Who gives a flying fuck if Alabama or LSU does the same in the SEC and Sugar Bowl? Makes for debates. But noooooo, gotta have "playoffs" so Joe Rich Fuck can go the the "big game" and it will be like the NFL. Fuck that. I'm getting real tired of this playoff shit.

And when the B1G has the top 2 finishers without divisions "go to the playoffs" and The Game becomes "meaningless" to these same dipshits because they play one week later, I hope they're happy.

Look at the "playoff picture" this year:
UGA, Texas, Alabama, tOSU, ttun, UW, Oregon, FSU...

There's a real possibility of someone being left out, say if Bama beats Georgia (unlikely but not impossible) and FSU beats UL, and say Oregon beats UW by a FG or TD.

It'll possibly settle itself out, but there's a high probability of someone being left out this year. And...well there could now be 1-3 teams complaining about being left out rather than the 1-2 teams (at most) from the MNC/BCS days.

 

[Tomateaux Quinoa Gumbeaux]

And when the B1G has the top 2 finishers without divisions "go to the playoffs"

With 12 teams, I think the B1G could get 3-4 in some years.

The ACC is going to have, what, 2 teams max? CU and FSU? Plus CU is in decline.

And the Big 12 is going to be a borderline mid major without Texas and OU.

Really it's going to be the B1G and SEC putting in probably 60-70% of the teams. And that's being a bit conservative I think.

 

[JCOSU86]

Look at the "playoff picture" this year:
UGA, Texas, Alabama, tOSU, ttun, UW, Oregon, FSU...

There's a real possibility of someone being left out, say if Bama beats Georgia (unlikely but not impossible) and FSU beats UL, and say Oregon beats UW by a FG or TD.

It'll possibly settle itself out, but there's a high probability of someone being left out this year. And...well there could now be 1-3 teams complaining about being left out rather than the 1-2 teams (at most) from the MNC/BCS days.

One of those 4 undefeateds will lose their championship game, I can almost guarantee it. Then there will be 3 undefeateds and at least three "1-loss" teams. How do you pick among them fairly? Again, it's bullshit politics not "settling it on the field.".

 

[Tomateaux Quinoa Gumbeaux]

Again, it's bullshit politics not "settling it on the field.".

Literally being settled by a bunch of fucktard talking heads, executives, and politicians/celebrities who probably barely watch the games.

 

[Jake]

People whined and cried about "settling it on the field" championship-wise. But you NEVER are going to settle it because someone will say they got fucked out. What the fuck is wrong with winning the Big Ten, and then going to the Rose Bowl and winning that? Who gives a flying fuck if Alabama or LSU does the same in the SEC and Sugar Bowl? Makes for debates. But noooooo, gotta have "playoffs" so Joe Rich Fuck can go the the "big game" and it will be like the NFL. Fuck that. I'm getting real tired of this playoff shit.

And when the B1G has the top 2 finishers without divisions "go to the playoffs" and The Game becomes "meaningless" to these same dipshits because they play one week later, I hope they're happy.

The BCS started after TCUN and Nebraska shared the title in 1997. In 1994, undefeated Ped State finished second to undefeated Corn (I think Ped State was better, tbh), so that was two disputed/debated NCs in four years. That opened the can of worms leading to a 12 team playoff next year, and it'll probably keep growing from there.

Younger fans are about "the natty" now. Conference titles and rivalries don't mean much to them and I see it on social media. It's about the "NC" and talking shit on the internet. Nothing else matters, unless you're a non-P5 team in which case winning any bowl is a big deal.

But for the top P5 teams, it's "the natty" or bust now. The expanded playoff will be a gold mine for everyone involved with it.

 

[Tomateaux Quinoa Gumbeaux]

Just look at the main lines of discourse in this thread now to see what the CFP has done to the post-season:

- Arguments about whether or not losing to Louisville is equivalent to losing to an fcs team
- Not wanting to play in a bowl game/opting out of bowl games
- Conference Title Games/Bowls losing their meaning because fans only care about natties and talking shit on Twitter

The only references to any upcoming bowl games, or potential bowl games, that I came across with a quick glance was a mention of Northwestern being bowl eligible despite their troubles this past year, and the mascot of the former Cheeze-It-Bowl is now a giant edible pop tart.

 

[JCOSU86]

Just look at the main lines of discourse in this thread now to see what the CFP has done to the post-season:

- Arguments about whether or not losing to Louisville is equivalent to losing to an fcs team
- Not wanting to play in a bowl game/opting out of bowl games
- Conference Title Games/Bowls losing their meaning because fans only care about natties and talking shit on Twitter

The only references to any upcoming bowl games, or potential bowl games, that I came across with a quick glance was a mention of Northwestern being bowl eligible despite their troubles this past year, and the mascot of the former Cheeze-It-Bowl is now a giant edible pop tart.

Yep, 100%. The only caveat would be that there are literally no matchups announced yet, so we can't talk about LSU-ND or Alabama-App St. yet.

 

[buckeyemania11]

15 years ago, I'd agree.

In 2023?

They've been a P5 team for a decade and is playing in the title game of a P5 conference. Imo they've grown beyond mid-major status into a major program, albeit a lower-tiered major program.

In fact, I'd say, in the ACC they are probably closer to the upper echelon of programs, just below FSU (traditionally) and Clemson (recently).

They are on a tier with UNC, Miami, and maybe Virginia Tech (although they've really gone downhill since Beamer retired).

This is the first year since joining the ACC that they haven’t lost 4+ games. They are a middling team in a middling conference

 

[Jaxbuck]

15 years ago, I'd agree.

In 2023?

They've been a P5 team for a decade and is playing in the title game of a P5 conference. Imo they've grown beyond mid-major status into a major program, albeit a lower-tiered major program.

In fact, I'd say, in the ACC they are probably closer to the upper echelon of programs, just below FSU (traditionally) and Clemson (recently).

They are on a tier with UNC, Miami, and maybe Virginia Tech (although they've really gone downhill since Beamer retired).

To each his own. They are no better than a Utah (far below imo). A mid major that got a bump into a very weak conference.

BYU, Louisville, Boise, UCF...all the same level of shit imo. Losing to any of them would be an abject failure. Total disgrace.

 

[Buckeneye]

It will be getting knocked off by a mid major in a meaningless Bowl game. Added to Day's big game woes, it will certainly hurt recruiting if nothing else.

But winning over Louisville, in Miami no less, might help that Florida recruiting?

Then I'll continue to circle back around until someone can answer this question... how is that 'meaningless'? Not looking to start an argument, but every time I've seen someone use that word, it always seems associated with a contradiction. If something can help you, although it might come with a serious risk, then it isn't meaningless. It's just a gamble with a higher risk. I'd venture we should call it that.

And we're free to debate the merits of how, or if, that gamble should be taken all day.

People bemoan NIL, the portal, and conference realignment as the things killing CFB. And while there are valid arguments to be made in favor of that take (particularly conference realignment, i.e. literally killing the Pac12), I personally believe that the playoffs have done more to ruin the "mystique" (for lack of a better word at the moment) of College Football.

Going to a bowl game used to be a reward, not it's viewed as a punishment if it isn't a CFP bowl. And with playoff expansion, regular season match ups that used to hold so much weight, run the risk of becoming essentially meaningless. It used to be if say, Alabama lost to Ole Miss, it would practically ruin any chance of winning a title that year. Now, it would hurt it, but there's so much margin for error. A team could lose 3 games next year and still be in the NC championship race. To me, that's not college football. That's the NFLjr.

/End Rant!

I don't *mind* NIL, but I also see it much like what college football is becoming, which is NFL lite. You legit have a free agency period now. Look at Cam Ward with Wazzou for that proof. The portal doesn't bother me, but I see it being used so much that it feels abused by players AND coaches. What does jab me of all of this, and I'll never ever fully adjust to it, is conference realignment and expanded playoffs. Regional integrity used to be such a big deal, and that is all but gone now. I'm not even talking at the college level either. But when these athletes in sports other than football are they're going coast to coast in a week, along with having a full class schedule, I think you'll see further physical and mental fatigue. Nevermind the incredibly bloated cost of the logistics of all of it now. I don't think the average individual fully understands the dollars and cents behind transportation and hotels.

Lastly, I'll leave off on the playoff system. It doesn't matter how small or how expanded the field is. At some point, even with 12 teams, #13 is going to bitch and moan and raise a media circus. TCU did that in 2014 being left out. Raise the playoff field to a sweet 16? Guess what, 17, 18 and 19 are going to say they have a claim and their coaches will absolutely be at the podium crying. Because nobody seems to be capable anymore of saying "well, we lost a game or two and shit happens".

If the playoff were conference winners with one at large, I would feel much better about that. It would be the sweet spot between maintaining how special the regular season and rivalry games can be, but balance it with the monster that has become TV market money and more games = more dollars mentality. Plus it would sort of function in the outline of how the BCS did with the at-large bid. But even then, with 6 teams in, I can guarantee you #7-#10 will whine to all holy hell.


Lost in all of this is how funny this season has gone. On the eve of conference realignment, mostly out of frustration from Pac and Big 12 members being left out of the CFP, you have as much parity today as you've had in years.



edit: What I miss most about the bowl season, or even big regular season OCC matchups is the 'Whoever. Wherever.' That teams used to have. tOSU football and the fanbase used to embody that. Now? I guess if you can't win it all then everything else is a meaningless game based on business decisions.

 

[Tomateaux Quinoa Gumbeaux]

Yep, 100%. The only caveat would be that there are literally no matchups announced yet, so we can't talk about LSU-ND or Alabama-App St. yet.

I did consider that before my rant, however I believe that many of those talking points that I mentioned will continue after the games have been announced.

 

[Jaxbuck]

But winning over Louisville, in Miami no less, might help that Florida recruiting?

Then I'll continue to circle back around until someone can answer this question... how is that 'meaningless'? Not looking to start an argument, but every time I've seen someone use that word, it always seems associated with a contradiction. If something can help you, although it might come with a serious risk, then it isn't meaningless. It's just a gamble with a higher risk. I'd venture we should call it that.

And we're free to debate the merits of how, or if, that gamble should be taken all day.

"meaningless" game isn't meant literally, it's just an easier way to say "a completely uninspiring game against an uninspiring opponent with nothing but absurdly high risk to OSU in terms of program reputation and momentum which translates, to some degree or another, into recruiting."

I agree with you that the better word for it then might be "pure risk" if "meaningless" throws you. OSU can only get hurt by even playing against a Louisville/BYU kind of team. Yeah coaches might get some time with SFL recruits but does that offset the negatives around why they are getting that time? I really don't know.

Anyway, for sports message board purposes "meaningless game" has always been the term used when it's one team team's Super Bowl and the other team is only in that particular Bowl because their season was an abject failure. I agree with the logic you are pointing out but I think it's splitting hairs a little too fine.

 

[Bucklion]

Is a single recruit going to say "wow, Ohio State beat Louisville in a non-playoff bowl game, I'm going there?" I doubt it, they'll be selling a yearly playoff birth with the expansion to 12. Likewise, I don't think one is going to say "well the Buckeyes have made the playoff most years, but they didn't beat Louisville in this also-ran bowl so I ain't going there" either.

The playoff, NIL, and NFL prospects. I don't think there's a fourth variable.

 

[Tomateaux Quinoa Gumbeaux]

But winning over Louisville, in Miami no less, might help that Florida recruiting?

Then I'll continue to circle back around until someone can answer this question... how is that 'meaningless'? Not looking to start an argument, but every time I've seen someone use that word, it always seems associated with a contradiction. If something can help you, although it might come with a serious risk, then it isn't meaningless. It's just a gamble with a higher risk. I'd venture we should call it that.

And we're free to debate the merits of how, or if, that gamble should be taken all day.

A high profile game in South Florida will help, regardless of who you play and whether or not you win (a win would be preferable, but a close loss isn't going to deter many recruits imo.). Most people know these games are glorified exhibitions. Many times, lower tier teams like UL is compared to tOSU, have won bowl games. I can't think of a time where that translated to the bigger program falling to pieces and the other team becoming a power house because of it. It's good for internet fodder and trash talk, but I can't really say that I can think of a time where it really meant anything.

As an example, remember WVU absolutely humiliating Clemson 77-30 or something like that in the Orange Bowl? Some people do. But looking at the trajectory of those programs after that game, it goes to show that too much is made of the results. And I doubt that any WVU fan who would try to smack talk a Tater fan would have much ammo with the Orange Bowl when the Taters have 2 NC titles and many conference titles and playoff appearances under their belt since then.

I do think an argument can be made that a program on the rise could use bowl wins as motivation/momentum. Again, Clemson, after that Orange Bowl debacle, continued to make NY6/NCS bowl games and started winning them (I remember Les Miles botching a potential game winning drive in the Peach Bowl by calling for a pass on 3rd and short that went incomplete and stopped the clock for the Taters smh) and a win against Ohio State in the Orange Bowl. They kept winning those games year after year to build momentum but they did a lot of other things to build that program beyond winning those games to go on the run that they did (using the Church to funnel money to pay players, etc).

But I do think that having a game in front of those S Fla recruits can help, especially if someone has a breakout game like Jaxon SnJ did 2 years back. Could build some pre-season hype for certain players who saw most of the season from the bench to replace starters who opt out.

 

[Tomateaux Quinoa Gumbeaux]

: What I miss most about the bowl season, or even big regular season OCC matchups is the 'Whoever. Wherever.' That teams used to have. tOSU football and the fanbase used to embody that. Now? I guess if you can't win it all then everything else is a meaningless game based on business decisions.

Not only that, but now fans are complaining about scheduling big OOC regular season matchups with tougher conference schedules on the docket, citing "the schedule is already tough enough...". Fans of many different programs want to fully adapt the SEC "Chicken Shit Saturday" approach for every non-con game. (Not saying all fans, but quite a significant number of them).