2022 ttun Shenanigans, Arguments, Surrender Cobras, and Feckless Marmots

[Buckeyeskickbuttocks]

Fuck

 

[Buckeyeskickbuttocks]

Them

 

[BuckeyeNation27]

Because their coaching is shit?
Because their recruiting that has built this 2022 team was shit?
Because their development has been shit?
Because they've been nothing but shit since January 2001?

 

[pnuts34]

Just askin'... why are you so positive that Michigan will be shit based on close calls to Penn State and Nebraska when those same two teams played the Bucks tough too? And Purdue laid 31 on OSU's defense. Then there's the loss to Oregon - at home - the more than 487 yards to Michigan - and 467 to Utah in the Rose Bowl. But one change in DC and the defense is rock solid, 9th to 1st in the Big Ten in one year? I'm not buying it. Yes, the team is loaded with talent; yes, the defense could hardly be as bad as it was, yes, they should be able to outscore Michigan in Columbus. But Michigan, not unlike the 2002 Buckeyes, got a monkey off their back. They'll open the season with an easy schedule and I see only one other team on their schedule with comparable talent until they get to Columbus and that's Penn State and they catch them and Little Brother at home.

I agree with all the posters in my hatred of everything for TTUN.

But to directly answer your question. It is very possible for one DC to turn an entire defense around in 1year, and OSU has a prime example of it when Jeff Hafley took over the defense for Schiano in 2019. The same questions were said when an unknown, young coach named Jeff Hafley left the NFL for OSU. And he made OSU one of the best defenses in all of football in his 1 and only year. The same thing can happen with Knowles who led the #1 defense at the fake OSU with a bunch of players who would've been back ups at best at TOSU.
scUM's success, ESPECIALLY on defense is attributed to 3 players who are all now in the NFL. And they're recruiting has not been on par to just replace them in one year, unlike OSU who has backups who were rated in the top 250, and would start on every team in the B1G(I mean seriously, how many teams in the B1G would jump for joy to land some of OSU's backups like: Teradja Mitchell, JJB, Ty Hamilton, Cody Simon, Cam Martinez or Kourt Williams). scUM caught lightning in a bottle with a team with a massive chip on their shoulder at home, in perfect weather conditions for their ground and pound style. OSU was so caught up in the #hang100, and thinking that beating scUM was a formality, that they forgot to show up and actually play the game. I HIGHLY doubt that happens this season! I'm quite sure by the cleaning of house on the defensive side that Day is not going to be caught slipping on November 26th. And I'm sure that Day is using all types of motivational techniques like Urban to remind the team that they were embarrassed on national TV and cost themselves a CFP spot and another B1G title.

 

[buckeyemania11]

Just askin'... why are you so positive that Michigan will be shit based on close calls to Penn State and Nebraska when those same two teams played the Bucks tough too? And Purdue laid 31 on OSU's defense. Then there's the loss to Oregon - at home - the more than 487 yards to Michigan - and 467 to Utah in the Rose Bowl. But one change in DC and the defense is rock solid, 9th to 1st in the Big Ten in one year? I'm not buying it. Yes, the team is loaded with talent; yes, the defense could hardly be as bad as it was, yes, they should be able to outscore Michigan in Columbus. But Michigan, not unlike the 2002 Buckeyes, got a monkey off their back. They'll open the season with an easy schedule and I see only one other team on their schedule with comparable talent until they get to Columbus and that's Penn State and they catch them and Little Brother at home.

Ohio State's defense has a much better chance at turning it around than scUM does at getting close to replicating their success on that side of the ball from last year.

Now scUMs defense will probably look pretty good on paper, considering their schedule, especially early (September Heisman season will be hilarious this year). But better offenses are going to expose them hard again this year. Much like the Don Brown era.

I know recruiting rankings aren't everything. But a bunch of generic 3* and low 4* players who have been there forever and done nothing more than likely not are going to produce the same as Hutchinson/Ojabo/Hill/Etc. Not to mention they lost their flash in the pan DC and replaced him with a backwards move.

I think comparing Michigan "getting a monkey off their back" to Ohio State in 2002 is a bad comparison. Ohio State went undefeated and actually won the national title. scUM got beat up in the CFP semi final and finished with 2 losses, their coach pulled a stunt of almost leaving to the NFL and they lost both of their coordinators that helped orchestrate that team. It wasnt even close to the type of magical season like Ohio State had in 2002. No matter how much DFBIA wants to pretend that it was.

They have to beat Ohio State and win the B1G twice in a row at least for the "monkey to be off their back" until they do that, it's just a outlier and their once every 8-10 years win like it's been since Tressel took over.

 

[buckeyemania11]

Another fun thread

https://mgoblog.com/mgoboard/stew-mandel's-b1g-picks

They can't believe someone would dare pick them to lose 3 games.

Also lots of this kind of talk.

bronxblue

August 23rd, 2022 at 5:31 PM ^

The recruiting-focused writers always drive me crazy with their analysis. Bud Foster does a similar take but acknowledges that recruiting doesn't mean everything. But far too often they boil it down to "you have to have elite talent to win a title" and use as reference Alabama as proof, ignoring the fact they innovate a ton as well.

You do, this is why teams like scUM, Cincinnati, Sparty get destroyed when they slip into the playoff.

 

[DaddyBigBucks]

Another fun thread...

"The recruiting-focused writers always drive me crazy with their analysis. Bud Foster does a similar take but acknowledges that recruiting doesn't mean everything. But far too often they boil it down to "you have to have elite talent to win a title" and use as reference Alabama as proof, ignoring the fact they innovate a ton as well."

You do, this is why teams like scUM, Cincinnati, Sparty get destroyed when they slip into the playoff.

Not that any analysis is needed to refute bronxblew's point...

There have been 8 championship games in the CFP era.
That equates to 16 championship game berths.

Those berths have been filled by:

Alabama (6)
Clemson (4)
Ohio State (2)
Georgia (2)
LSU (1)
Oregon (1)​

The closest any of those teams come to not having elite talent is 2014 Oregon, and they got there based on having a Heisman winner at QB (elite) and having their path paved by the hilarious (and long-lasting, apparently) implosion of FSU.

So if elite talent is NOT necessary to win a title (seems to be bronxblew's point), then why weren't more of the championship game berths filled by teams without elite talent? I expect that if you asked bronxblew about this directly he'd say that wasn't his point... So what WAS his point?

The world may never know

 

[cincibuck]

I think comparing Michigan "getting a monkey off their back" to Ohio State in 2002 is a bad comparison. Ohio State went undefeated and actually won the national title. scUM got beat up in the CFP semi final and finished with 2 losses, their coach pulled a stunt of almost leaving to the NFL and they lost both of their coordinators that helped orchestrate that team. It wasnt even close to the type of magical season like Ohio State had in 2002. No matter how much DFBIA wants to pretend that it was.

It was the 2001 team winning that got the monkey off the Buckeye's back. I would think that the years of losses had an impact on Michigan's team psyche and that beating the Buckeyes decisively will give the 2021 team a stronger attitude coming into the 'shoe, just as the 2002 Buckeyes felt when Michigan came to town.

As for 3s and 4s vs 4s and 5s, last year's Buckeyes had better talent across the board and still managed to get beat.

Weather? What's with a Buckeye team that can't play in bad weather? Every year BP posters, myself included, make comments about how much they'd like to see SEC teams play in Big Ten sites in November weather.

 

[buckeyemania11]

It was the 2001 team winning that got the monkey off the Buckeye's back. I would think that the years of losses had an impact on Michigan's team psyche and that beating the Buckeyes decisively will give the 2021 team a stronger attitude coming into the 'shoe, just as the 2002 Buckeyes felt when Michigan came to town.

As for 3s and 4s vs 4s and 5s, last year's Buckeyes had better talent across the board and still managed to get beat.

Weather? What's with a Buckeye team that can't play in bad weather? Every year BP posters, myself included, make comments about how much they'd like to see SEC teams play in Big Ten sites in November weather.

It happens sometimes. We've also gotten beat up by Iowa and Purde in recent memory. All i'm saying is Michigan has to prove they can do it again before it's deemed anything more than a one off. I'm not taking them lightly but I don't think its unreasonable to take this "better than last year" "EXPLOSIVE OFFENSE" crap they keep uttering with a huge grain of salt.

I think getting blown out by UGA, Harbaugh seriously flirting with the NFL and the assistants bolting kind of puts a damper on the "momentum" for them. Most of the mouth running they have done so far screams of nothing but false bravado.

 

[cincibuck]

I'm hoping Knowles is the answer because the talent is there. For ten years, 2011 until 2021, there have only been three close games with Michigan winning 2 of them. The 2011 loss had to be expected, last year begs explanation. I think order will be restored this year, but I think Michigan is better than most BPers want to believe.

 

[buckeyemania11]

I'm hoping Knowles is the answer because the talent is there. For ten years, 2011 until 2021, there have only been three close games with Michigan winning 2 of them. The 2011 loss had to be expected, last year begs explanation. I think order will be restored this year, but I think Michigan is better than most BPers want to believe.

Depends on how you define "close"

2012 & 2013 were close (both Ohio State wins)

2014 you could claim was close too, it was tied until a minute left in the 3rd. Ohio State only led by 7 with 5 minutes left until the Zeke TD run.

and of course 2016

I don't think theres some sort of "Ohio State has only won when it's a blowout in the last 10 or so years" narrative going on.

 

[jwinslow]

This millenium, OSU has the following win percentage against these teams:

64% - 09-5 Pur
76% - 13-4 Wisc
77% - 17-5 PSU
77% - 7-02 Iowa
81% - 17-4 UM
83% - 15-3 MSU

This was the first year in a long time that they weren't the 6th least likely B1G team to upset OSU. Last year's outcomes bumped them all the way to 5th in a 3 team league (one of which is OSU, and ironically is usually the biggest threat for those upsets)

OSU does not deserve any assumptions about whether they found their big boy pants as it pertains to the running game in B1G play. They have to earn that respect.

That said, the year they didn't have them was the only time in 18 years that Michigan won a title.

And that includes years where OSU completed single passes to win games, OSU & PSU were ineligible, OSU lost both starting QBs, and OSU's only chance of scoring for half of The Game was through the arm of the QB wearing wings.


OSU's need to prove it is mutually exclusive. Michigan is very far from earning the benefit of the doubt, particularly when the surprise run last year was anchored by a defense led by two blue chippers in Hutchinson and Hill.

 

[DaddyBigBucks]

I'm hoping Knowles is the answer because the talent is there. For ten years, 2011 until 2021, there have only been three close games with Michigan winning 2 of them. The 2011 loss had to be expected, last year begs explanation. I think order will be restored this year, but I think Michigan is better than most BPers want to believe.

Perhaps at one point last year begged explanation, but the explanations were obvious to many of us and they have been posted on, both briefly and at length, by many BP members for the past 9 months. I guess the question is, are those explanations reasonable? The short version is, that there was a negative confluence of events for the Buckeyes AND a positive confluence of events for TTUN. So this breaks the question into two: 1) Is it reasonable to believe that the negative events that contributed to Ohio State's performance have been addressed, and 2) Is it reasonable to believe that the positive events that contributed to TTUN's performance are no longer in play? Let's look at both.

As has been repeated nearly ad nauseum for the past 9 months, Ohio State had 3 issues in last year's game: defensive scheme and coaching, offensive line run blocking, and motivation.

Is it reasonable to believe that the defensive scheme and the teaching of that scheme have been addressed? I would contend that, at this point, it is unreasonable to believe otherwise.

Is it reasonable to believe that the offensive line has been addressed? It seems to me that this is the biggest question on the team, but as a new coach was hired who has a scheme that seems tailor-made to address the issue, it is perhaps reasonable to expect that this issue has been addressed. Add to that the fact that the guard position at Ohio State is now filled by actual guards rather than by tackles out of position. It seems to me that expecting this issue to be no better than last year isn't really reasonable.

Is it reasonable to believe that the motivation issue has been addressed? In my opinion there were multiple motivational issues in play: 1) the off-season conditioning program before last season was, according to some, changed to be more of a self-driven program. Based on what the players have said about this past off-season's workouts, that changed in a hurry. In fact, it seems to me from just looking at videos of practice that the team seems to be in much better shape this year. 2) Ryan Day's mantra about weather all year was just that "you only have to handle it better than the other guy does". Well, the truth is you also need to be built to succeed in B1G weather, and the hiring of the new OL coach seemed to have that in mind. We will see if Day stick to the "...better than the other guy..." mantra. 3) Finally, it seems clear that Ohio State took TTUN lightly last year. Up until that game, it seemed that some of the run defense issues had been at least partially addressed. They had faced teams that were arguably as good as TTUN on the ground and had held their own. Some of what we saw then, was probably the approach to The Game itself. Based on what the team has been saying for the past 9 months, motivation will not be a problem this year.
​

Now let's address the more important point, as it seems to be your primary point: Is it reasonable to expect that the things in TTUN's favor are no longer in effect?

First of all, their first round edge players are gone. Is it reasonable to expect that the players taking over for them this year will not play at the same level? In my opinion it would be ridiculous to expect otherwise. The edge players on their depth chart this year have given us no reason to expect performances on the level of last year's.

Secondly, their coordinators on both sides of the ball are gone. Is it reasonable to expect that the new coordinator will not be able to produce the same results? An objective view of the new coordinators resume would suggest pretty strongly that expecting otherwise begs explanation. And bear in mind that it was the confluence of last year's coordinator for TTUN and Ohio State's running-game woes (already addressed) that presented the problem Since both of those things were necessary to produce last year's result, and since it is not reasonable to assume that either is still in play, perhaps we aren't just being naive.

Finally, while Corum is a very good back, it was Haskins that did the real damage last year. But Haskins only did that damage because Ohio State's scheme was passive and predictable. It is neither this year. Again, last year's result rested at the nexus of Ohio State's issues and a TTUN asset that is no longer there.
​

To me, when you look at it objectively, you come away with the unmistakable conclusion that TTUN is likely to be a very good football team this year. If they are lucky, and their new coordinators perform better than their resumes says we should expect, they might even be top 10. But there are very good, objective reasons to believe that a very good, top-10 football team that Ohio State is very motivated to beat is going to get absolutely brutalized by the Buckeyes this year.

 

[buckeyemania11]

Their defense is almost 100% hinging on finding a pass rush to somewhat replicate what Hutchinson/Ojabo did

There's about zero reason to believe that secondary is going to hold up without that. DJ Turner and Germon Green still being unquestioned starters puts a damper on their "loaded talent" claims. They've also got a slot dot turned DB and back multiple times manning the Nickle spot.

 

[Steve19]

This team may not be the greatest fraud on the TSUN campus. Turns out that a Galileo one-page manuscript, thought to contain notes taken by him while discovering Jupiter's four moons and "described by the university as 'one of the great treasures of the University of Michigan Library,'" is a fraud.

TSUN Galileo manuscript a fraud

The researcher who discovered the fraud comes from Georgia State, a Sun Belt school in the same division as Appy State