2021 tOSU Defense

[pnuts34]

Tuf saved the teams bacon against Army and looked like the only guy in the program that knew his assignments his RS Fr year. I hate that he gets piled on after he clearly had lost his speed following the Achilles tear.

He deserves to be remembered for being a three time captain and defensive MVP against Clemson, not for his inability to cover Devonta Smith in man, which he should never have been asked to do.

Tuf was never going to be player that was praised while on campus. He was always going to fondly be remembered once he left

 

[Oh8ch]

That’s 100% the issue at hand with Ohio State’s defense, no doubt about it.

It’s a basic “if-then” logic statement. If Ohio State shows Single High, then we run this. Opposing offensive coordinators know what they are going to get from the Buckeyes’ defense far in advance of the game and even at game time, and OSU doesn’t have a counter. It’s literally the opposite of the offense, and it’s crazy.

It’s a lot of the same issues Greg Schiano’s units ran into later in his tenure - OCs knew how to manipulate the defense by formation and pre-snap motion (see Ohio State at Maryland 2018, with Matt Canada). The pre-snap motion back then caused the defense to react and make an awkward shift right before the snap, usually leaving defenders out of position.

Ohio State switched to the Single High with Jeff Hafley to simplify things for the defense. Gone are exploitable shifts. OSU can basically run a Cover 1 or Cover 3 with man or zone underneath. Alabama was able to use Coombs stubbornness or oversight against him using the same type of pre snap motions, attacking with the lethal passing attack. Ducks did much of the same, but instead of throwing (with their veteran QB with a 50% completion rate and unknowns at WR) they attacked on the ground.

There’s nothing inherently wrong with the Single High but OSU doesn’t have counters. It’s like a pitcher who can throw 95 miles an hour, but that’s it. That will get you pretty far, but it’s not going to make you an all-star in the big leagues. Hitters can hit home runs when they know what’s coming, and you’re seeing a lot of opposing offenses know the pitch. Coombs is clearly not the answer. That’s too bad. We knew this last year, and we’re confirming it this year. Ohio State will continue to feast on the overmatched, then give up a ton of points especially as opposing teams get more film. Coombs could rectify this, but it just doesn’t seem like he’s equipped to be the one that does.

Agree with all of this.

But Day is no dummy. He has plenty of film to study. How can he not see it?

I remember when Tressel got whooped by USC and after the game the USC players were saying they knew what we were going to do on every offensive snap.

All I can figure is that it is a level of arrogance so great that we are saying with our level of talent we can simply do as we please.

 

[bucknut502]

More and more I’m convinced that Jeff Hafley was an elite DC

 

[Poe McKnoe]

Agree with all of this.

But Day is no dummy. He has plenty of film to study. How can he not see it?

I remember when Tressel got whooped by USC and after the game the USC players were saying they knew what we were going to do on every offensive snap.

All I can figure is that it is a level of arrogance so great that we are saying with our level of talent we can simply do as we please.

Ohio State needs 50 more quality control assistants like Bama and Clemson to scout our own defense?

I think it comes down to the problem at hand. Winning addresses perception even if it doesn’t address the root cause. It also probably provides confirmation bias. The defensive line generally, in the the past 10 years, has make everything else look better.

I think Ryan Day spends a lot of time with the offensive side of the ball and knows what he wants on the defensive side, but expects his coaches to coach. Coombs is hardly an expert on the defense Day wants to run. He probably needs a couple more years, but you also don’t have that kind of time - basically learning on the job - when you step into the DC role in Columbus. OSU D started to mix in some zone late in the game, and the D came up with stops, even if the offense then proceeded to fall on their face.

If Day wants a Single High defense, he needs someone who has proven themselves.

 

[DaddyBigBucks]

It is long established that the transitive property of algebra doesn’t apply to football

BUT

That doesn’t mean that we can learn nothing from comparing the performance of teams against common opponents; It means that we can’t draw definitive conclusions from one game against similar athletes

This is not a one game thing though

And even if you are looking at a limited number of games, if there is a big difference in the level of athletes, you should expect to do better vs a common opponent

Should Ohio State ALWAYS do better than Fresno State against common opponents?

Oregon scored more on Ohio State than on Fresno State.

Fresno State.



Should Ohio State ALWAYS do better than Fredo against common opponents?

Minnesota scored the same number of points on Miami (Their last TD drive against Ohio state was without Ibrahim so spare me that excuse)

Last season was full of similar examples. I’ll spare you (and myself) the details. I was willing to chalk it up to covid

What I saw yesterday had nothing to do with covid, and the extent of it can not be laid at the feet of a few injuries

The entire B1G, or as near as makes no matter, puts better defenses on the field with lesser athletes

This is normally the kind of thing that I type out and then delete because it adds no value to the discussion…. Whatever

 

[MSURacerDT55]

That’s 100% the issue at hand with Ohio State’s defense, no doubt about it.

It’s a basic “if-then” logic statement. If Ohio State shows Single High, then we run this. Opposing offensive coordinators know what they are going to get from the Buckeyes’ defense far in advance of the game and even at game time, and OSU doesn’t have a counter. It’s literally the opposite of the offense, and it’s crazy.

It’s a lot of the same issues Greg Schiano’s units ran into later in his tenure - OCs knew how to manipulate the defense by formation and pre-snap motion (see Ohio State at Maryland 2018, with Matt Canada). The pre-snap motion back then caused the defense to react and make an awkward shift right before the snap, usually leaving defenders out of position.

Ohio State switched to the Single High with Jeff Hafley to simplify things for the defense. Gone are exploitable shifts. OSU can basically run a Cover 1 or Cover 3 with man or zone underneath. Alabama was able to use Coombs stubbornness or oversight against him using the same type of pre snap motions, attacking with the lethal passing attack. Ducks did much of the same, but instead of throwing (with their veteran QB with a 50% completion rate and unknowns at WR) they attacked on the ground.

There’s nothing inherently wrong with the Single High but OSU doesn’t have counters. It’s like a pitcher who can throw 95 miles an hour, but that’s it. That will get you pretty far, but it’s not going to make you an all-star in the big leagues. Hitters can hit home runs when they know what’s coming, and you’re seeing a lot of opposing offenses know the pitch. Coombs is clearly not the answer. That’s too bad. We knew this last year, and we’re confirming it this year. Ohio State will continue to feast on the overmatched, then give up a ton of points especially as opposing teams get more film. Coombs could rectify this, but it just doesn’t seem like he’s equipped to be the one that does.

Outstanding post

 

[dragurd]

Agree with all of this.

But Day is no dummy. He has plenty of film to study. How can he not see it?

I remember when Tressel got whooped by USC and after the game the USC players were saying they knew what we were going to do on every offensive snap.

All I can figure is that it is a level of arrogance so great that we are saying with our level of talent we can simply do as we please.

The problem with that is sure you can possibly be arrgoant and say with our talent we should be able to do that to everyone in the Big 10 but you will get beat in playoffs everytime if that is what you go with

 

[Don Muenz]

Objection, Your Honor, the use of the term, “defense,” assumes a fact not in evidence.

Objection sustained, the jury is instructed to give no weight to that term when discussing Ohio State’s first two games.

 

[LordJeffBuck]

 

[Da Rhino]

Lets not over think this;
1. if DBs are leading your D in tackles - This is not a good thing.
2. D line are making no penetration - the size of most is not enough to make a dent in D1 OL.
3. If your D lineman are not big enough - then speed has to be the way - along with stunting, swim moves, whatever it takes to get pressure on QB & clog running holes.

Until the above happens this will be a long season....

 

[ScriptOhio]

 

[Jaxbuck]

Coming in late to it all so probably repetitive;

The baseball analogy is the best one here. If you have a great fastball then by all means use it 75% of the time but you have to have something off speed, even if it's just to keep the hitters honest, or eventually you are going to get hit. Hard. We saw is in 2018 at the end of Schiano's time and every year since really, save for 2019.

Second obvious trend here, (and @LordJeffBuck called it out in the off season) the DL isn't as talented as it has been in years past. Eventually Sawyer and JTT might be super stars but they aren't right now and none of the older guys are difference makers. It's a solid to very good unit. Not a difference making unit.

Which brings us to the absurdity of being in a predictable defense with just a pretty good D-line and an absolute Chinese fire drill for a back 7. If they stay in this mode, every team left on the B1G schedule can score 30+ points. The real kick in the nuts is that we are now in season. You don't change what you do or who you are in season. That is done in the spring and summer. The men in charge of this went through those two windows thinking what we are doing is acceptable. That calls qualification for their roles into play.

In the end, just like 2018, we are going to need the offense to outscore the opponents every week and I think that pressure is just too much to ask of a young QB no matter how good the talent is around him. Games will be pretty easy to handicap. Can the opponents defense hold OSU offense under 35? If so, there is a better than 50/50 shot at a loss. If you think that's overly dramatic please consider that the two offenses we have seen so far are nothing. Two journeymen QB's with almost zero WR talent to keep us honest of cheating against the run. You saw how that worked out.

 

[bukIpower]

It is long established that the transitive property of algebra doesn’t apply to football

BUT

That doesn’t mean that we can learn nothing from comparing the performance of teams against common opponents; It means that we can’t take draw definitive conclusions from one game against similar athletes

This is not a one game thing though

And even if you are looking at a limited number of games, if there is a big difference in the level of athletes, you should expect to do better vs a common opponent

Should Ohio State ALWAYS do better than Fresno State against common opponents?

Oregon scored more on Ohio State than on Fresno State.

Fresno State.



Should Ohio State ALWAYS do better than Fredo against common opponents?

Minnesota scored the same number of points on Miami (Their last TD drive against Ohio state was without Ibrahim so spare me that excuse)

Last season was full of similar examples. I’ll spare you (and myself) the details. I was willing to chalk it up to covid

What I saw yesterday had nothing to do with covid, and the extent of it can not be laid at the feet of a few injuries

The entire B1G, or as near as makes no matter, puts better defenses on the field with lesser athletes

This is normally the kind of thing that I type out and then delete because it adds no value to the discussion…. Whatever

No I get it... I think of last year with the amount of close games we had because we couldn't pull away. Because of that we couldn't get our back ups reps which hurts us this year. If we think pretty hard on it this has been going on pretty much since JT resigned. Since 2011 we've maybe had two elite defenses (2019 and 2016) and two others that were solid (2014 and 2015). I've always wondered how Wisconsin or Iowa can be so consistent on that side where as we have had a sore spot on defense most years?

I tend to think it's from playing too much man but I'm sure there's more that goes into it.

 

[Poe McKnoe]

I would like to add, in addition, the players did nothing to bail out Coombs. Watched some of Bill Rabinowitz clips on Twitter (which I fully expect Fox to send him a cease and desist letter for posting) and guys just aren’t prepared for what they are seeing. James Laurinaitis also mentioned this today on his show. Guys aren’t only slow to react, they are reading the wrong keys. This resulted in double teams that left a man open, linebackers running into each other, and DEs getting pulled inside. Either the units are communicating poorly, internally and with other units, or they are and they are just plain wrong. I assume Oregon’s OC Joe Moorehead changed up some looks and broke tendencies, thus creating the confusion, but there has to be in game changes. Some of it was basic read option, and OSU didn’t look like they knew responsibilities…against Oregon.

It’s ugly, folks. The film shows it and the statistics prove it.

 

[bukIpower]

Coming in late to it all so probably repetitive;

The baseball analogy is the best one here. If you have a great fastball then by all means use it 75% of the time but you have to have something off speed, even if it's just to keep the hitters honest, or eventually you are going to get hit. Hard. We saw is in 2018 at the end of Schiano's time and every year since really, save for 2019.

Second obvious trend here, (and @LordJeffBuck called it out in the off season) the DL isn't as talented as it has been in years past. Eventually Sawyer and JTT might be super stars but they aren't right now and none of the older guys are difference makers. It's a solid to very good unit. Not a difference making unit.

Which brings us to the absurdity of being in a predictable defense with just a pretty good D-line and an absolute Chinese fire drill for a back 7. If they stay in this mode, every team left on the B1G schedule can score 30+ points. The real kick in the nuts is that we are now in season. You don't change what you do or who you are in season. That is done in the spring and summer. The men in charge of this went through those two windows thinking what we are doing is acceptable. That calls qualification for their roles into play.

In the end, just like 2018, we are going to need the offense to outscore the opponents every week and I think that pressure is just too much to ask of a young QB no matter how good the talent is around him. Games will be pretty easy to handicap. Can the opponents defense hold OSU offense under 35? If so, there is a better than 50/50 shot at a loss. If you think that's overly dramatic please consider that the two offenses we have seen so far are nothing. Two journeymen QB's with almost zero WR talent to keep us honest of cheating against the run. You saw how that worked out.

A lot of places like Letterman Row/Buckeye Scoop etc think we have 4 games to get right. I really think Rutgers and especially Maryland are going to push us to score 40 in order to win.