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2020 ttun Shenanigans, Arguments, and Surrender Cobras (Confirmed COWARDS!)

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we should have a similar contest and name the top 11 guys we would want to see on defense in any given game with tsun

Some must have's: (I don't give a shit if I spell their names wrong)

DB
Morgan Trent
Josh Metellus
#28

LB
Jordan Kovac
Spike Bolden
Crable and or Burgess

DL
This is an inexhaustible supply but fire away
Ah, who was the DT caught choking his chicken on someone’s porch?
 
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we should have a similar contest and name the top 11 guys we would want to see on defense in any given game with tsun

Some must have's: (I don't give a shit if I spell their names wrong)

DB
Morgan Trent
Josh Metellus
#28

LB
Jordan Kovac
Spike Bolden
Crable and or Burgess

DL
This is an inexhaustible supply but fire away
This list is incomplete without Jabrill "Where's my fucking jock, JT?" Peppers...
 
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I'd like to see a comparison between Ohio State and tsun on who hits more frequently with 3 stars. You could use several metrics: drafted in first 3 rounds, All B1G etc. I'll bet that we have more hits with comparatively fewer overall 3 stars because of coaching, culture and competition within the program.
I'm using Rivals rankings because: (a) they go back uninterrupted to 2002; and (b) they don't practice as much grade inflation as the other sites.

I stopped at the class of 2018 because the younger recruits have not yet had a chance to demonstrate their talents (or lack thereof).

I am including two-star signees with the three-star signees.

From 2002 to 2018, Ohio State had 141 three-star signees out of 375 total signees (37.6%).

From 2002 to 2018, Michigan had 183 three-star signees out of 375 total signees (48.8%).

Despite having far less three-star signees, Ohio State got much more out of their lower-ranked talent. Each team had many productive three-star players (Ohio State's include Dane Sanzenbacher, Kenny Guiton, and the Boren brothers), but I wanted to list only the best examples of three-star prospects developing into outstanding college players. Here are the most notable examples from each team:

ClassOhio State 3-Star RecruitExceptional College AccoladesDraft Position
2002A.J. Hawk2x All American; Lombardi Award1st round
2002Santonio Holmes1st team All Big Ten1st round
2003Kirk BartonAll American7th round
2005James Laurinaitis3x All American; Butkus Award2nd round
2005Malcolm Jenkins2x All American; Thorpe Award1st round
2005Brian Robiskie...2nd round
2005Brian Hartline...4th round
2005Donald Washington III...4th round
2006Chimdi ChekwaAll American4th round
2009John Simon1st team All Big Ten4th round
2010Bradley RobyAll American1st round
2010Johnathan HankinsAll American2nd round
2011Jeff Heuerman...3rd round
2011Devin Smith...2nd round
2011Cardale Jones...4th round
2012Pat ElfleinAll American; Rimington Trophy3rd round
2013Darron LeeAll American1st round
2013Gareon Conley...1st round
2014Malik HookerAll American1st round
2014Sam Hubbard...3rd round
2015Joey Burrow*All American; Heisman Trophy1st round
2015Denzel WardAll American1st round
2015Damon Arnette...1st round
2015Davon Hamilton...3rd round
2016Jordan Fuller3x Academic All American6th round
2016Malik Harrison1st team All Big Ten3rd round
2017Thayer Munford...???
2018Chris Olave...???
ClassMichigan 3-Star RecruitsExceptional College AccoladesDraft Position
2002David Harris1st team All Big Ten2nd round
2004Mike HartUM all-time leading rusher6th round
2005Zoltan Meskó2x 1st team All Big Ten5th round
2007David MolkAll American; Rimington Trophy7th round
2008Patrick Omameh1st team All Big TenUndrafted
2010Jake Ryan1st team All Big Ten4th round
2011Frank Clark...2nd round
2011Graham Glasgow...3rd round
2012Devin Funchess...2nd round
2012Chris Wormley1st team All Big Ten3rd round
2012Willie Henry...4th round
2012Jehu Chesson...4th round
2012Ryan Glasgow...4th round
2013Maurice Hurst, Jr.1st team All Big Ten5th round
2015Jon Runyan, Jr.1st team All Big Ten???
2018Ronnie Bell...???
Comparing first round draft picks: Ohio State 9; Michigan 0

Comparing first team All Americans: Ohio State 15 (11 different players); Michigan 1

*Ohio State also gets at least partial credit for Joey Burrow, who won the Heisman Trophy and will be the #1 pick in tomorrow's NFL draft.

EDIT: Added Damon Arnette as a 1st round draft pick, Malik Harrison and Davon Hamilton as 3rd round draft picks
 
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I'm using Rivals rankings because: (a) they go back uninterrupted to 2002; and (b) they don't practice as much grade inflation as the other sites.

I stopped at the class of 2018 because the younger recruits have not yet had a chance to demonstrate their talents (or lack thereof).

I am including two-star signees with the three-star signees.

From 2002 to 2018, Ohio State had 141 three-star signees out of 375 total signees (37.6%).

From 2002 to 2018, Michigan had 183 three-star signees out of 375 total signees (48.8%).

Despite having far less three-star signees, Ohio State got much more out of their lower-ranked talent. Each team had many productive three-star players (Ohio State's include Dane Sanzenbacher, Kenny Guiton, and the Boren brothers), but I wanted to list only the best examples of three-star prospects developing into outstanding college players. Here are the most notable examples from each team:

ClassOhio State 3-Star RecruitExceptional College AccoladesDraft Position
2002A.J. Hawk2x All American; Lombardi Award1st round
2002Santonio Holmes1st team All Big Ten1st round
2003Kirk BartonAll American7th round
2005James Laurinaitis3x All American; Butkus Award2nd round
2005Malcolm Jenkins2x All American; Thorpe Award1st round
2005Brian Robiskie...2nd round
2005Brian Hartline...4th round
2005Donald Washington III...4th round
2006Chimdi ChekwaAll American4th round
2009John Simon1st team All Big Ten4th round
2010Bradley RobyAll American1st round
2010Johnathan HankinsAll American2nd round
2011Jeff Heuerman...3rd round
2011Devin Smith...2nd round
2011Cardale Jones...4th round
2012Pat ElfleinAll American; Rimington Trophy3rd round
2013Darron LeeAll American1st round
2013Gareon Conley...1st round
2014Malik HookerAll American1st round
2014Sam Hubbard...3rd round
2015Joey Burrow*All American; Heisman Trophy1st round
2015Denzel WardAll American1st round
2015Damon Arnette...???
2015Davon Hamilton...???
2016Jordan Fuller3x Academic All American???
2016Malik Harrison1st team All Big Ten???
2017Thayer Munford...???
2018Chris Olave...???
ClassMichigan 3-Star RecruitsExceptional College AccoladesDraft Position
2002David Harris1st team All Big Ten2nd round
2004Mike HartUM all-time leading rusher6th round
2005Zoltan Meskó2x 1st team All Big Ten5th round
2007David MolkAll American; Rimington Trophy7th round
2008Patrick Omameh1st team All Big TenUndrafted
2010Jake Ryan1st team All Big Ten4th round
2011Frank Clark...2nd round
2011Graham Glasgow...3rd round
2012Devin Funchess...2nd round
2012Chris Wormley1st team All Big Ten3rd round
2012Willie Henry...4th round
2012Jehu Chesson...4th round
2012Ryan Glasgow...4th round
2013Maurice Hurst, Jr.1st team All Big Ten5th round
2015Jon Runyan, Jr.1st team All Big Ten???
2018Ronnie Bell...???
Comparing first round draft picks: Ohio State 8; Michigan 0

Comparing first team All Americans: Ohio State 15 (11 different players); Michigan 1

*Ohio State also gets at least partial credit for Joey Burrow, who won the Heisman Trophy and will be the #1 pick in tomorrow's NFL draft.

giphy.webp
 
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I'm using Rivals rankings because: (a) they go back uninterrupted to 2002; and (b) they don't practice as much grade inflation as the other sites.

I stopped at the class of 2018 because the younger recruits have not yet had a chance to demonstrate their talents (or lack thereof).

I am including two-star signees with the three-star signees.

From 2002 to 2018, Ohio State had 141 three-star signees out of 375 total signees (37.6%).

From 2002 to 2018, Michigan had 183 three-star signees out of 375 total signees (48.8%).

Despite having far less three-star signees, Ohio State got much more out of their lower-ranked talent. Each team had many productive three-star players (Ohio State's include Dane Sanzenbacher, Kenny Guiton, and the Boren brothers), but I wanted to list only the best examples of three-star prospects developing into outstanding college players. Here are the most notable examples from each team:

ClassOhio State 3-Star RecruitExceptional College AccoladesDraft Position
2002A.J. Hawk2x All American; Lombardi Award1st round
2002Santonio Holmes1st team All Big Ten1st round
2003Kirk BartonAll American7th round
2005James Laurinaitis3x All American; Butkus Award2nd round
2005Malcolm Jenkins2x All American; Thorpe Award1st round
2005Brian Robiskie...2nd round
2005Brian Hartline...4th round
2005Donald Washington III...4th round
2006Chimdi ChekwaAll American4th round
2009John Simon1st team All Big Ten4th round
2010Bradley RobyAll American1st round
2010Johnathan HankinsAll American2nd round
2011Jeff Heuerman...3rd round
2011Devin Smith...2nd round
2011Cardale Jones...4th round
2012Pat ElfleinAll American; Rimington Trophy3rd round
2013Darron LeeAll American1st round
2013Gareon Conley...1st round
2014Malik HookerAll American1st round
2014Sam Hubbard...3rd round
2015Joey Burrow*All American; Heisman Trophy1st round
2015Denzel WardAll American1st round
2015Damon Arnette...???
2015Davon Hamilton...???
2016Jordan Fuller3x Academic All American???
2016Malik Harrison1st team All Big Ten???
2017Thayer Munford...???
2018Chris Olave...???
ClassMichigan 3-Star RecruitsExceptional College AccoladesDraft Position
2002David Harris1st team All Big Ten2nd round
2004Mike HartUM all-time leading rusher6th round
2005Zoltan Meskó2x 1st team All Big Ten5th round
2007David MolkAll American; Rimington Trophy7th round
2008Patrick Omameh1st team All Big TenUndrafted
2010Jake Ryan1st team All Big Ten4th round
2011Frank Clark...2nd round
2011Graham Glasgow...3rd round
2012Devin Funchess...2nd round
2012Chris Wormley1st team All Big Ten3rd round
2012Willie Henry...4th round
2012Jehu Chesson...4th round
2012Ryan Glasgow...4th round
2013Maurice Hurst, Jr.1st team All Big Ten5th round
2015Jon Runyan, Jr.1st team All Big Ten???
2018Ronnie Bell...???
Comparing first round draft picks: Ohio State 8; Michigan 0

Comparing first team All Americans: Ohio State 15 (11 different players); Michigan 1

*Ohio State also gets at least partial credit for Joey Burrow, who won the Heisman Trophy and will be the #1 pick in tomorrow's NFL draft.
Well done, and the summary has even more disparity - I count 9 first round picks for tOSU.

Looking at the chart, some Vulvarine fans might see a problem 'developing', but I don't.
 
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Well done, and the summary has even more disparity - I count 9 first round picks for tOSU.

Looking at the chart, some Vulvarine fans might see a problem developing, but I don't.
The ninth first rounder is Joey Burrow, who will officially enter the NFL as an LSU player. I put him on my list with an asterisk. So maybe 8.5 first rounders?

It was difficult to find enough scUM players to fill out the table. The only really notable name on their list is Mike Hart. David Harris, Frank Clark, Devin Funchess, and Graham Glasgow were really good college players and have/had solid NFL careers. Zoltan Meskó was a punter. The rest of the guys are solid but not special.

On the other hand, many of the Ohio State players are on the Greatest Buckeyes Ever list: Hawk, Holmes, Laurinaitis, Jenkins, Roby, Ward, Smith, Hooker, Elflein.
 
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I'm using Rivals rankings because: (a) they go back uninterrupted to 2002; and (b) they don't practice as much grade inflation as the other sites.

I stopped at the class of 2018 because the younger recruits have not yet had a chance to demonstrate their talents (or lack thereof).

I am including two-star signees with the three-star signees.

From 2002 to 2018, Ohio State had 141 three-star signees out of 375 total signees (37.6%).

From 2002 to 2018, Michigan had 183 three-star signees out of 375 total signees (48.8%).

Despite having far less three-star signees, Ohio State got much more out of their lower-ranked talent. Each team had many productive three-star players (Ohio State's include Dane Sanzenbacher, Kenny Guiton, and the Boren brothers), but I wanted to list only the best examples of three-star prospects developing into outstanding college players. Here are the most notable examples from each team:

ClassOhio State 3-Star RecruitExceptional College AccoladesDraft Position
2002A.J. Hawk2x All American; Lombardi Award1st round
2002Santonio Holmes1st team All Big Ten1st round
2003Kirk BartonAll American7th round
2005James Laurinaitis3x All American; Butkus Award2nd round
2005Malcolm Jenkins2x All American; Thorpe Award1st round
2005Brian Robiskie...2nd round
2005Brian Hartline...4th round
2005Donald Washington III...4th round
2006Chimdi ChekwaAll American4th round
2009John Simon1st team All Big Ten4th round
2010Bradley RobyAll American1st round
2010Johnathan HankinsAll American2nd round
2011Jeff Heuerman...3rd round
2011Devin Smith...2nd round
2011Cardale Jones...4th round
2012Pat ElfleinAll American; Rimington Trophy3rd round
2013Darron LeeAll American1st round
2013Gareon Conley...1st round
2014Malik HookerAll American1st round
2014Sam Hubbard...3rd round
2015Joey Burrow*All American; Heisman Trophy1st round
2015Denzel WardAll American1st round
2015Damon Arnette...???
2015Davon Hamilton...???
2016Jordan Fuller3x Academic All American???
2016Malik Harrison1st team All Big Ten???
2017Thayer Munford...???
2018Chris Olave...???
ClassMichigan 3-Star RecruitsExceptional College AccoladesDraft Position
2002David Harris1st team All Big Ten2nd round
2004Mike HartUM all-time leading rusher6th round
2005Zoltan Meskó2x 1st team All Big Ten5th round
2007David MolkAll American; Rimington Trophy7th round
2008Patrick Omameh1st team All Big TenUndrafted
2010Jake Ryan1st team All Big Ten4th round
2011Frank Clark...2nd round
2011Graham Glasgow...3rd round
2012Devin Funchess...2nd round
2012Chris Wormley1st team All Big Ten3rd round
2012Willie Henry...4th round
2012Jehu Chesson...4th round
2012Ryan Glasgow...4th round
2013Maurice Hurst, Jr.1st team All Big Ten5th round
2015Jon Runyan, Jr.1st team All Big Ten???
2018Ronnie Bell...???
Comparing first round draft picks: Ohio State 8; Michigan 0

Comparing first team All Americans: Ohio State 15 (11 different players); Michigan 1

*Ohio State also gets at least partial credit for Joey Burrow, who won the Heisman Trophy and will be the #1 pick in tomorrow's NFL draft.

So...Devin Funchess and nothing else. Well, maybe Bike Hart.

I mean, I really hate to see this. Just awful.
 
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In which the Ministry of Excuses tries to make sense of their lousy (primarily Don Brown) defensive recruiting. *Spoiler* It ain't pretty...and it ain't getting better.

The most fun is reading them trying to convince themselves Josh Metellus was a good player.

https://mgoblog.com/content/jimmystats-don-brown-and-three-star-mafia#read-more
There's at least one guy on there who might be on to something:
iu

The bottom line is that once Brady Hoke's DL recruits graduated the defense fell off a cliff against the better teams on the schedule. This isn't complicated, they need to sign higher ranked recruits on that side of the ball. The only way you're going to match OSU's 5 stars is with your own. No scheme in the world is going to cover up for the type of talent gap that is playing out in the recruiting rankings right now.
 
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I'm using Rivals rankings because: (a) they go back uninterrupted to 2002; and (b) they don't practice as much grade inflation as the other sites.

I stopped at the class of 2018 because the younger recruits have not yet had a chance to demonstrate their talents (or lack thereof).

I am including two-star signees with the three-star signees.

From 2002 to 2018, Ohio State had 141 three-star signees out of 375 total signees (37.6%).

From 2002 to 2018, Michigan had 183 three-star signees out of 375 total signees (48.8%).

Despite having far less three-star signees, Ohio State got much more out of their lower-ranked talent. Each team had many productive three-star players (Ohio State's include Dane Sanzenbacher, Kenny Guiton, and the Boren brothers), but I wanted to list only the best examples of three-star prospects developing into outstanding college players. Here are the most notable examples from each team:

ClassOhio State 3-Star RecruitExceptional College AccoladesDraft Position
2002A.J. Hawk2x All American; Lombardi Award1st round
2002Santonio Holmes1st team All Big Ten1st round
2003Kirk BartonAll American7th round
2005James Laurinaitis3x All American; Butkus Award2nd round
2005Malcolm Jenkins2x All American; Thorpe Award1st round
2005Brian Robiskie...2nd round
2005Brian Hartline...4th round
2005Donald Washington III...4th round
2006Chimdi ChekwaAll American4th round
2009John Simon1st team All Big Ten4th round
2010Bradley RobyAll American1st round
2010Johnathan HankinsAll American2nd round
2011Jeff Heuerman...3rd round
2011Devin Smith...2nd round
2011Cardale Jones...4th round
2012Pat ElfleinAll American; Rimington Trophy3rd round
2013Darron LeeAll American1st round
2013Gareon Conley...1st round
2014Malik HookerAll American1st round
2014Sam Hubbard...3rd round
2015Joey Burrow*All American; Heisman Trophy1st round
2015Denzel WardAll American1st round
2015Damon Arnette...???
2015Davon Hamilton...???
2016Jordan Fuller3x Academic All American???
2016Malik Harrison1st team All Big Ten???
2017Thayer Munford...???
2018Chris Olave...???
ClassMichigan 3-Star RecruitsExceptional College AccoladesDraft Position
2002David Harris1st team All Big Ten2nd round
2004Mike HartUM all-time leading rusher6th round
2005Zoltan Meskó2x 1st team All Big Ten5th round
2007David MolkAll American; Rimington Trophy7th round
2008Patrick Omameh1st team All Big TenUndrafted
2010Jake Ryan1st team All Big Ten4th round
2011Frank Clark...2nd round
2011Graham Glasgow...3rd round
2012Devin Funchess...2nd round
2012Chris Wormley1st team All Big Ten3rd round
2012Willie Henry...4th round
2012Jehu Chesson...4th round
2012Ryan Glasgow...4th round
2013Maurice Hurst, Jr.1st team All Big Ten5th round
2015Jon Runyan, Jr.1st team All Big Ten???
2018Ronnie Bell...???
Comparing first round draft picks: Ohio State 8; Michigan 0

Comparing first team All Americans: Ohio State 15 (11 different players); Michigan 1

*Ohio State also gets at least partial credit for Joey Burrow, who won the Heisman Trophy and will be the #1 pick in tomorrow's NFL draft.

Thanks for doing the actual work to confirm my hunch.
 
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