2020 Team Discussion Thread

[billmac91]

Yeah. To be honest I'm starting to go crazy trying to check and re-check to see if there are any updates or hear what armageddon people think will happen if others conferences play and OSU doesn't. I'm resigned to the fact that either no one plays, or some play and OSU has significant issues in the next few years trying to keep players/recruit.

Other conferences are playing. I don't think it's even debatable at this point.

FSU couldn't of really had a worse week with it's players than last week, and have moved on, and today announced they're "adding an 11th game to their schedule".

Like, it's happening, for sure. They desperately need that TV money, and the ACC is going to make sure they collect. If individual schools decide to pull out (like a Duke/UNC/Virginia) that's their call. But the ACC is cashing that TV money check one way or the other.

Which is why the Big 10 cancelling so early is so disappointing. If Rutgers needed to bail on the season, fine. Let them enjoy the labor of the rest of the conference. Instead they were short-sighted, jumped the gun, and a few days after the announcement we have a new saliva test that costs $10 to administer, a new Covid study that shows people who have it develop immunity for 3+ months (released this morning) and other leagues barreling forward.

Absolutely, as a recruit I'd be hesitant to join Big 10 after what is going on. I don't think there is any way around that right now. The country's 2nd most identifiable star (maybe #1) is begging the Big 10 to treat him like an adult and let him make his own decision. And thus far, they're being bullies, and IMO cowards.

 

[buckeyebri]

Wouldn’t it be great if FOX/BTN could negotiate a televised conference on this that included players, coaches, ADs along with the Commish? Especially from teams that want to play.

It would be interesting to have Warren address the issues directly with players like Fields.

 

[Jaxbuck]

Oh I agree. I think it'd be safer to wait. I get that people don't want that and online schooling isn't as great, but I think you'll have much less suffering if you'd at the very least greaetly reduce on-campus populace.

I'm not even talking about COVID safety. I'm saying that the only logical explanation of this is an undisclosed accounting for what they consider risk management.

Now is that risk COVID related litigation? To some degree, I'm sure.

Could it also mean managing a perceived risk of player unity leading to players being paid? I'm almost certain of it but they'll never let that one out of the bag.

 

[1926Buckeyes]

Other conferences are playing. I don't think it's even debatable at this point.

FSU couldn't of really had a worse week with it's players than last week, and have moved on, and today announced they're "adding an 11th game to their schedule".

Like, it's happening, for sure. They desperately need that TV money, and the ACC is going to make sure they collect. If individual schools decide to pull out (like a Duke/UNC/Virginia) that's their call. But the ACC is cashing that TV money check one way or the other.

Which is why the Big 10 cancelling so early is so disappointing. If Rutgers needed to bail on the season, fine. Let them enjoy the labor of the rest of the conference. Instead they were short-sighted, jumped the gun, and a few days after the announcement we have a new saliva test that costs $10 to administer, a new Covid study that shows people who have it develop immunity for 3+ months (released this morning) and other leagues barreling forward.

Absolutely, as a recruit I'd be hesitant to join Big 10 after what is going on. I don't think there is any way around that right now. The country's 2nd most identifiable star (maybe #1) is begging the Big 10 to treat him like an adult and let him make his own decision. And thus far, they're being bullies, and IMO cowards.

I dunno, I don't see how people are so sure that they'll play. And FSU can say what they want, but their display these past few weeks is going to hurt them a lot more than OSU not playing, IMO.

Even with rapid testing, this still comes down to preventing athletes from getting these cases from students. No matter how quickly it's discovered, this remains a novel virus that can hit athletes pretty hard and I'm skeptical that you can recover and then suddenly get back to playing at such a high level.

I think we'd see quite a few players either sitting out the rest of the season, or redshirting due to lingering problems. I'm fine with letting teams and players giving this a shot if they want to, but there are quite a few layers to the onion.

 

[KOBuckeye]

 

[ORD_Buckeye]

Absolutely, as a recruit I'd be hesitant to join Big 10 after what is going on. I don't think there is any way around that right now. The country's 2nd most identifiable star (maybe #1) is begging the Big 10 to treat him like an adult and let him make his own decision. And thus far, they're being bullies, and IMO cowards.

I want football, and I hope it happens, but this is the kind of shit that loses me. Justin Fields is an adult, but he's not the only adult in the room. In fact, he's a bright, talented 20 year old kid young adult. Not someone who's run a multi-billion dollar organization. Not an infectious disease or public health expert. Not a legal expert on liability. In fact, it can strongly be argued that he has so much skin in the game that he absolutely can't step back and see the big picture. He wants to win a Heisman. He wants to win a national championship. He has millions of dollars on the line by playing his way from a top 10 pick to a top 3 pick in the draft. And these are exactly the things that he should have his mind on, but they are also exactly the things that cloud his judgment when it comes to the big picture.

 

[JCOSU86]

I want football, and I hope it happens, but this is the kind of shit that loses me. Justin Fields is an adult, but he's not the only adult in the room. In fact, he's a bright, talented 20 year old kid young adult. Not someone who's run a multi-billion dollar organization. Not an infectious disease or public health expert. Not a legal expert on liability. In fact, it can strongly be argued that he has so much skin in the game that he absolutely can't step back and see the big picture. He wants to win a Heisman. He wants to win a national championship. He has millions of dollars on the line by playing his way from a top 10 pick to a top 3 pick in the draft. And these are exactly the things that he should have his mind on, but they are also exactly the things that cloud his judgment when it comes to the big picture.

Perfectly said. Cowards? Really? Making the call to cancel the season took guts. You think he didn't expect pushback? Anger? Come on, man.

 

[billmac91]

I want football, and I hope it happens, but this is the kind of shit that loses me. Justin Fields is an adult, but he's not the only adult in the room. In fact, he's a bright, talented 20 year old kid young adult. Not someone who's run a multi-billion dollar organization. Not an infectious disease or public health expert. Not a legal expert on liability. In fact, it can strongly be argued that he has so much skin in the game that he absolutely can't step back and see the big picture. He wants to win a Heisman. He wants to win a national championship. He has millions of dollars on the line by playing his way from a top 10 pick to a top 3 pick in the draft. And these are exactly the things that he should have his mind on, but they are also exactly the things that cloud his judgment when it comes to the big picture.

And we've now seen the data the Big 10 relied on was inaccurate, as doctors from the ACC, SEC, and Big 12 have all come out and said this can be done safely.

Cowards may sound strong, but when you're a family that wants answers and leadership is hiding behind rocks and not giving any transparency whatsoever, its cowardly. Pablo Fields said it best.....transparency is key, and there has been zero.

There's two sides to this issue, and only one is being presented, while logic is thrown out the room. Josh Myers said it best...."we feel much safer in a team environment".

Shit, Michigan State announced they'll be having intramural sports this fall.

The Big 10 reached out to the NCAA about having contact practices in the fall, and what the limitations will be.....for real?

It's embarrassing. We're going to let our teams have contact practices this fall, but not let them play games?

It's insulting to the kids and families. As stated a million times, and as we're seeing in all conferences going forward. There is no penalty if you want to sit out and are uncomfortable with the situation. In fact Trevon Grimes (familiar name) just opted out at Florida yesterday. Mullen says he supports it 100%. Awesome. Mullen even said he expects a coach or two to opt out and he's 100% behind that as well....their job will be awaiting them when they come back. Excellent.

Great remarks after a practice in which all players who participated finally got to hit some bodies. It was a nice sight.

All this while they test players twice a week. But in 1-2 months, tests will be able to be given much cheaper with a faster result.

Meanwhile, the star of the Big 10, at it's premier athletic institution is begging for a chance to play, and the commissioners office simply "no comments it". Great optics from our leadership. Leaders and Legends my ass. The Big 10 is going to get smoked if they don't address this one way or the either.

You can come to the conclusion no football should be played, but its a heavy decision, that deserves proper attention and thoughtfulness for the players and families involved. To cancel the season and duck questions and accountability for the decision is downright cowardly. If this is the path they want to take, own it, and present those conclusions. Minus the bogus study University of Michigan doctors are saying is absolute horseshit, preferably.

 

[ORD_Buckeye]

And we've now seen the data the Big 10 relied on was inaccurate, as doctors from the ACC, SEC, and Big 12 have all come out and said this can be done safely.

And doctors in the B1G, PAC and Ivy, said it can't be done. So where does that leave us? And nobody seriously thinks the SEC, B12 and half the ACC is playing because of what doctors said one way or the other. They're playing because of a combination (confluence?) of institutional priorities and culture and regional/state politics.

 

[Jake]

And doctors in the B1G, PAC and Ivy, said it can't be done. So where does that leave us? And nobody seriously thinks the SEC, B12 and half the ACC is playing because of what doctors said one way or the other. They're playing because of a combination (confluence?) of institutional priorities and culture and regional/state politics.

No doubt the conferences still planning to play have those influences, but the predictions of health experts haven't exactly been hitting the mark on a regular basis. Given the authority, they'd lock everyone in their homes to prevent spread. Realistically that creates a thousand other problems but they aren't the problems on the minds of health experts. Of course they're going to err on the side of caution. They have nothing else to consider.

Something happened in 6 days to dramatically shift the B1G's position. It wasn't an outbreak. I doubt the opinions of health experts shifted - they were already being cautious - but something obviously pushed the needle. So what else happened in those 6 days? A list of demands from players unified in their cause. I don't care what Warren says that scared the bejeebus out of them. A legal waiver, not more health experts, is the best chance to change their minds.

 

[calibuck]

Any of our military people out there will tell you that any time one goes into action, casualties will undoubtedly result. Same with Covid. They play, they'll contract it. Even Dr. Gee said as much. Acceptable risks. Doctors are very conservative and will always round down on the outcomes. There are 'experts' there that can argue BOTH sides of the Covid pandemic equally well (we called it the "Harvard Syndrome" in MBA school). Money (the Benjamins), is certainly a compelling argument, and I'm surprised that the B10 cancelled because of it. Most of the B10 schools rely heavily on this source of revenue to fund their sports and/or academic programs. Probably the best argument 'for' is that the players want to play. I'll also opine that if leagues do not allow fall play, then the transfer portal will burst with the people entering their names. Maybe our newly annointed head of the B10 ought to check with his peers at the other conferences to see how/why they believe what they do, and then 'sell' it to the league presidents. Go Bucks!

 

[billmac91]

And doctors in the B1G, PAC and Ivy, said it can't be done. So where does that leave us? And nobody seriously thinks the SEC, B12 and half the ACC is playing because of what doctors said one way or the other. They're playing because of a combination (confluence?) of institutional priorities and culture and regional/state politics.

And the Big 10, Pac 12, and Ivy are not playing because of culture and regional/state politics?

Like, I think you just nailed it. Yes, many players and families believe they have been scooped up in a political battle and they literally do not want to be political football (pun intended). So they want answers.

At a minimum, give them the answers they seek. Because thus far, it's been trash. There is zero logic behind thinking players are better off in the general public than in a system where they are regularly tested and in a population of people that are all highly monitored.

It's bizarre to think they're safer not playing honestly.

How many of the Rutgers players would know they were contagious without football? Seriously......that test may have saved lives because those 30 players were positive and had no idea. This isn't that complicated.

 

[1926Buckeyes]

And doctors in the B1G, PAC and Ivy, said it can't be done. So where does that leave us? And nobody seriously thinks the SEC, B12 and half the ACC is playing because of what doctors said one way or the other. They're playing because of a combination (confluence?) of institutional priorities and culture and regional/state politics.

Yeah, they're still only one side of the argument. Doesn't make them right because everyone wants a college seaason. And we'd be naive to think these conferences care what the doctors think, especially if their opinion was different.

And we've now seen the data the Big 10 relied on was inaccurate, as doctors from the ACC, SEC, and Big 12 have all come out and said this can be done safely.

Shit, Michigan State announced they'll be having intramural sports this fall.

People point this out as hypocrisy when it has nothing to do with what conferences decide for conference-wide sports. Each campus still makes their choices regardless of what the sanctioned sports decide.

Besides, you and I both know they won't be on campus for more than a month or so, and intramural sports will barely happen.

It's insulting to the kids and families. As stated a million times, and as we're seeing in all conferences going forward. There is no penalty if you want to sit out and are uncomfortable with the situation. In fact Trevon Grimes (familiar name) just opted out at Florida yesterday. Mullen says he supports it 100%. Awesome. Mullen even said he expects a coach or two to opt out and he's 100% behind that as well....their job will be awaiting them when they come back. Excellent.

All this while they test players twice a week. But in 1-2 months, tests will be able to be given much cheaper with a faster result.

This still sounds vague to me. Who is organizing and making sure every team in every conference is committed to doing this, getting people trained to handle this, and getting the money together to put it all in place in 1-2 months?

That's the problem. Even these 'brave' conferences have no real plans or organization. They're just as unorganized but people give them a huge benefit of the doubt because they're not canceling their favorite sport yet.

All this is a moot point if they decide to play without students on campus. If that's how it's going to be, then college football as is will cease to exist in another 4-5 years. You can't change the idea behind the sport for one season and go back to normal without anything happening.

I get the frustration directed at the B10. They did/are doing a terrible job of messaging and communicating. Part of me really wants there to be a magical reversal and for OSU to still play. But without students on most campuses this fall anyway, what's the point? In exchange for one year of shorten football, you're starting a forest fire you can't put out.

 

[Jake]

There is zero logic behind thinking players are better off in the general public than in a system where they are regularly tested and in a population of people that are all highly monitored.

It's bizarre to think they're safer not playing honestly.

How many of the Rutgers players would know they were contagious without football? Seriously......that test may have saved lives because those 30 players were positive and had no idea. This isn't that complicated.

Which brings us back to this perhaps being the real motivator:

“You and your colleagues are chasing the wrong story. The virus alone is enough to stop the season. But presidents are terrified of players organizing. It’s the paradigm shift to change amateur sports. You potentially lose one season with the virus. You lose the entire framework of your mission statement with players organizing. They need time to figure out how to attack it.”

College football players asserting their rights is the real story to watch

 

[billmac91]

Which brings us back to this perhaps being the real motivator:

“You and your colleagues are chasing the wrong story. The virus alone is enough to stop the season. But presidents are terrified of players organizing. It’s the paradigm shift to change amateur sports. You potentially lose one season with the virus. You lose the entire framework of your mission statement with players organizing. They need time to figure out how to attack it.”

College football players asserting their rights is the real story to watch

It'd be awfully shitty of our new commissioner to be actively outspoken against the injustices in America, especially in respect to African Americans........and then cancel a season of football because a group of young men seek things they should be entitled too....I mean, if that's the case, let the whole conference burn in a fiery grave. Honestly. The hypocrisy would be beyond the pale.