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2017 tOSU Offense Discussion

For some reason JT was able to play as a RS Frosh when Braxton went down, but we are to believe the guy that Urban said had the best footwork and fundamentals he had ever seen in a HS QB isn't capable? BS.
Braxton went down in fall camp, giving JT weeks of first team reps. Despite that, the offense was awful in week 2.

That's what made Cardale's debut arguably the greatest debut in the history of cfb. He didn't show the growing pains, cluelessness and inconsistency that is usually found when a backup is suddenly elevated to the starting role.

Dwayne can make a ton of throws. Simply being unknown and on scholarship does not make him a qualified operator.

I hope we witness multiple qbs that take the next step this month. I'd love for us to get our first data point supporting Haskins or Burrow being ready to start. Even better would be if JT also progresses and Kevin is allowed to run his offense.

For now all we know is that he has upside.
 
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Great. It's still quite probable.
and they're usually quite rough, even the good ones. Maybe Haskins will be a rare exception. is osu "worth a damn" now?
based on what? Such a severe disdain for the present that you're assuming anyone else is a guaranteed equal if not an improvement ?

Deciding to throw away the season and go all in is an option. The hypothetical results of that gamble are not merely status quo or better.

Were these RS Frosh "rough" in college?

Lamar Jackson
Johnny Football (Heisman)
Josh Rosen
Jameis Winston (Heisman)
Jacob Eason (true Frosh)
Jalen Hurts (true Frosh)
Francois FSU (true frosh)
Buchele UT (true frosh)
Darnold USC
McSorley PSU (true Frosh) last year
JT Barrett 2014

I mean that is just off the top of my head. There are many many more guys that have played as RS Frosh or True Frosh that were not as highly regarded coming out of HS than Haskins.

It is just my opinion, and everyone is free to disagree, but my point is we are not going to get worse QB play. It cannot get a lot worse than it has been the past several games.
 
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Were these RS Frosh "rough" in college?

Lamar Jackson
Johnny Football (Heisman)
Josh Rosen
Jameis Winston (Heisman)
Jacob Eason (true Frosh)
Jalen Hurts (true Frosh)
Francois FSU (true frosh)
Buchele UT (true frosh)
Darnold USC
McSorley PSU (true Frosh) last year
JT Barrett 2014

I mean that is just off the top of my head. There are many many more guys that have played as RS Frosh or True Frosh that were not as highly regarded coming out of HS than Haskins.
Wonderful. They're still usually rough.

If you'd like to make a more reasonable argument, and use those guys as examples of how it CAN work, that's another story. Currently you're shouting for the team captain to be benched for the guy with zero experience and promising that there's zero downside.

Talk about something that shouldn't be bought.
 
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Wonderful. They're still usually rough.

If you'd like to make a more reasonable argument, and use those guys as examples of how it CAN work, that's another story. Currently you're shouting for the team captain to be benched for the guy with zero experience and promising that there's zero downside.

Talk about something that shouldn't be bought.
Yep, and I said the same thing last year and at the end of the year we were embarrassed on the National stage by Clemson. This year we were taken to the wood shed by OU. This offense sucks with JT at the helm. Fultons breakdown of the film show how guys are open if JT just executed. This offense could be fine with the play calling and all, although I would like to see more KW influence, but it still stands if JT makes plays we move the ball, convert 3rd downs, don't get behind the chains as often, sustain drives, and score points. But he is missing guys, throwing late, or throwing behind them. He is killing us.
 
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Sucks compared to what Illinois Purdue etc. If you expect a NC this year or any year you will be disappointed for most years except for the miracle years. 2002 and 2014 really had no business happening but we celebrate them like it's our birthright. We need perspective..out of all college football teams there is maybe half a dozen who would turn down JT. Hell Saban would take him right now.,
 
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After calming down from the OU loss, I started re watching last years ScUM, Ped St, Wisky Clemson, this years IU and OU games as well as the MSU game from 2015(just the OSU offensive drives), and found one constant, a lack of consistency and identity on the offense. I without a doubt think that OSU has as much Talent as Bama, OU and any other top team in the country. The difference is a team like Bama, knows their identity on offense, smack you in the mouth with our talented RBs and massive OL, and then when they got you on the ropes they put their foot on the opponents necks with a down field pass, and then continue to bludgeon you with the smash mouth running. Its been this way since Saban arrived In Tuscaloosa. Bama is the bully that will punch you in the mouth, steal your gf and dare you to do something back. And they've been able to punk the entire SEC for years and a few rivals in the CFP(OSU and Clemson) have been able to punch back but only a very select few.
OSU has no clue what they want to do on offer we, unlike Bama. I think JT can be the man to guide OSU to another NC(as I also think Haskins can as well), but it has to be with a true offensive identity. We're kidding ourselves if we think a collection of Jalen Hurts, Blake Sims, Greg McElroy, AJ McCarron is better than JT. JT has as much talent as all of them, but they were all put in positions to win. They were all game managers(as is JT), and were never in control of taking over a game, they let their RBs and OL do that. when Bama lost, it was because the QB was forced to do too much, and tried to make plays on his own, there are few instances where they were just flat out beat(Ole Miss with the crazy plays a few years ago and Clemson last year), but in all the QB was just a manager.
Urban was blessed with 2 QBs who had the ability to take over games with their legs(Braxton and Tebow) and keep defenses on their heels, but JT ain't that. And OSU has been blessed with stellar RB play since Urban arrived and he hasn't leaned on it enough, except in 2014 when riding Zeke got us an NC. But then when you go to 2015, you see Urban panic at close games like MSU, and get "cute" and start to go away from Zeke and try to lean on JT more in the run game, and thats a big mistake. Zeke was getting in stride and then it was taken away in favor of running JT on plays that fans in the nosebleeds knew was coming. And in all the close games since Herman left, that has been the case. But when we won those games, Urban and JT are heroes and everything is great, but with a loss you can see the true issues with the offense. JT may be A problem, but he's not the MAIN problem. As much as I'd like to see a new QB like Haskins in, I believe we can also win with JT. But our RBs need to be used a lot more! No way should JT ever out rush both the RBs, let alone one. I would give him the ball to run 8-10 times a game max and then feed JK Webber until the other team says uncle. It will also help our OL as well. Its not a secret that OL rather run block and pass protect, and Prince will do much better mauling a guy run blocking than consistently getting blown by in pass protection. Its near impossible to utilize play options when the QB is the primary runner, no defense in the nation will fall for that, besides give the ball to the guys who's expertise is actually running the ball! We recruited elite RBs to do just that.
And also, we should stop with the 6 man WR rotation, its a not so subtle secret that we dont have 6 competent WRs, IMO, Mack, Victor and Campbell should be starters with Dixon spelling them when needed. No offense but McLaurin is great in interviews and is a solid leader but he has hands of stone. Hill is a guy who has been in so many offenses that he hasn't even mastered being a WR, and he's more of a guy who's average at many things and not good at any one thing. Its not a knock on the guys, but just an honest opinion
No team has been able to win big in any level of football with an identity of what the team wants to do. Right now we have a team of coaches confused in what they want to do, whether they're a spread power team or a read option. I say stop paying so much attention to the deep ball and punch the other team in the mouth and that will open up the passing game. Too much has been made about Devin Smith, bug he wouldn't have been so open if the other team wasn't so focused on Zeke ripping them a new one. We are a spread power run team, IMO, just as Bama is a pro style power run team, OSU just spreads teams wide and then should beat them with their RBs. Just my synopsis, sorry for writing so much but I got on a roll
 
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If Haskins isn't game ready yet, I have to think it is more of a "mental thing" than a "physical thing". Maybe the game hasn't "slowed down" for him yet, he's having difficulty reading the defenses, and/or he's still learning when to "check off" to another play, etc.


Or maybe it's BS. Georgia started a true freshman last week at Ntre Ame. I guess he is more "game ready than a RS Frosh?

Y'all need to go back near the beginning of the thread and rewatch his film. He was making throws as a HS junior that JT can't make as a 5th year senior.
 
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Or maybe it's BS.
Based on evidence, or disliking the answer?
Georgia started a true freshman last week at Ntre Ame. I guess he is more "game ready than a RS Soon?
He was 16/29 for 149 yds 1 TD 1 INT plus a fumble. Just to be clear, he had negative rushing yards to go with that.
Y'all need to go back near the beginning of the thread and rewatch his film. He was making throws as a HS junior that JT can't make as a 5th year senior.
No one is arguing he is not talented. We're pointing out the large amount of leap to conclusion tiles between there and where you see him finishing.
 
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Sucks compared to what Illinois Purdue etc. If you expect a NC this year or any year you will be disappointed for most years except for the miracle years. 2002 and 2014 really had no business happening but we celebrate them like it's our birthright. We need perspective..out of all college football teams there is maybe half a dozen who would turn down JT. Hell Saban would take him right now.,

It's not just about losing. It's about HOW we lose. One of the downsides to being a fifth year senior on your fourth season is that the tape is out on you. Teams have analyzed JT deficiencies and figured out that he cannot consistently complete a pass with accuracy and precision past 15 yards. Teams dare him to throw and it's worked. Not only that but he seems to be regresseing with his mechanics, accuracy, timing, and most importantly his confidence almost every game. If not just to put some life and spontaneity into this offense, let's see what Haskins can do. As been mentioned plenty of times by plenty of other people on this site, You can't get any worse QB play in a P5 division 1 program right now than what JT is giving us (sorry to say).

Could JT lead us to a b10 championship and a CFB playoff berth? Yes, if the playcalling and some personnel changes happen on both sides of the ball. But once we face an Alabama, Clemson, Oklahoma, etc., we are going to see a repeat of the Mich. st, Clemson, Penn st. and Oklahoma games. Yes, the wide receivers have drop and separation issues, but you can't say that you've seen a QB for the last two years that's been able to consistently get it to them when they were open. He just doesn't have the arm talent to be a threat in big games. Put Haskins in there to test them out. Let's see if these WR are really as bad as we've been saying lately. The competition over the next three games should afford us ample opportunities to do so. If our defense can't dominate these next three games, we have bigger issues to worry about.
 
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maybe it's just this:

Instead of a QB change, we should be changing the real problem.
there's no maybe. It's the qb play, the wr play, the protection (though not nearly as much this year), but above all, the scheme.

It's all of it. The qb and wrs can get better with a better scheme. The opposite is not likely.
 
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Amen to you both. I think Urban is doing his best to defend JT to everyone outside of the organization. He's being a loyal coach, but being loyal to a fault. Cardale was benched in favor of JT and he didn't even lose a game, yet JT is looking worse than Cardale and getting every chance to keep his job. I would give Haskins every chance for reps in the next few weeks, but also loosen some of the reins from Wilson and allow him to start calling more plays and installing more of his system. This is the 3rd OC under Meyer and the offense hasn't looked much different, I think Meyer is seeming to be more of the problem from what it seems...
I believe so too... you're right too about giving JT the benefit of the doubt while Cardale didn't even get it. I was one who strongly called for JT to play over Cardale but in retrospect the kid had never lost a game.

Whatever happened in 15' fucked both the QBs for their careers to date... I firmly believe that reason is Tim Beck and at this point that's why I'm convinced that JT will never get "it" back. However that doesn't mean the back ups are wrecked and as such should be given massive PT to see what they have.

If JT is such a dynamic leader and teammate I don't see the point in benching him. It's not like he gets kicked off the team he will be there coaching everyone up and leading in his own way.
 
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Based on evidence, or disliking the answer?

probably a little bit of both

He was 16/29 for 149 yds 1 TD 1 INT plus a fumble. Just to be clear, he had negative rushing yards to go with that.

pretty comparable to JT's numbers in four of the last five games, sans rushing stats. JT never fumbles. I'll give him that.

For "fun's" sake, I had a peek at the PSU and Northwestern numbers from last year. Yikes. 43 and 44 pass attempts respectively. No wonder.

No one is arguing he is not talented. We're pointing out the large amount of leap to conclusion tiles between there and where you see him finishing.

I'm not saying he will be better. I'm saying he can't be much worse.

The whole thing really boils down to this outlandish commitment to being a great passing team. Not that there is anything wrong with wanting to be a great passing team, but the approach is all wrong.

The strength of the offense is in the oline and the backs, so develop the passing game OUT of the running game, not as a separate entity. You can't just be like, "okay, we're gonna throw now, because we want to be balanced." It just doesn't work. Everybody and their mother sees it coming.

I see Wilson trying. He's got bubble concepts built into the run game. It hasn't been executed very well, but it's there. The first series against Indiana had it working. The wheel route was great to see.

But the next four series was back to "Okay, line up in the running formation and run it. Now line up in the passing formation and pass it." I don't think that's Wilson making that call.

They've got to get their identity back. Be the power spread rushing team that you are. Stay on schedule running the ball, and you won't have to go looking for the passing game. It will come right to you.

Edit: and ditch the empty sets. They aren't fooling anyone.
 
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probably a little bit of both



pretty comparable to JT's numbers in four of the last five games, sans rushing stats. JT never fumbles. I'll give him that.

For "fun's" sake, I had a peek at the PSU and Northwestern numbers from last year. Yikes. 43 and 44 pass attempts respectively. No wonder.



I'm not saying he will be better. I'm saying he can't be much worse.

The whole thing really boils down to this outlandish commitment to being a great passing team. Not that there is anything wrong with wanting to be a great passing team, but the approach is all wrong.

The strength of the offense is in the oline and the backs, so develop the passing game OUT of the running game, not as a separate entity. You can't just be like, "okay, we're gonna throw now, because we want to be balanced." It just doesn't work. Everybody and their mother sees it coming.

I see Wilson trying. He's got bubble concepts built into the run game. It hasn't been executed very well, but it's there. The first series against Indiana had it working. The wheel route was great to see.

But the next four series was back to "Okay, line up in the running formation and run it. Now line up in the passing formation and pass it." I don't think that's Wilson making that call.

They've got to get their identity back. Be the power spread rushing team that you are. Stay on schedule running the ball, and you won't have to go looking for the passing game. It will come right to you.

Edit: and ditch the empty sets. They aren't fooling anyone.
Bingo! All of this can be achieved with any 3 of the QBs. But it has to be installed and utilized first...
 
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