2016-2017 Ohio State Men's Basketball (Official Thread)

[Cinfali]

From the web: As of 2014, players in Europe's basketball league can expect to earn from $65,000 to $100,000 a season. While this is low compared to the $4.2 million median NBA salary, it is well above the $12,000 to $24,000 a player can expect to earn in the NBA Development League.

You could stay in school and use your degree to make more than that

Not saying players on our current roster are worth more than what you quoted, but established players in better leagues make much more than that. Diebler makes around 400K and from what I know that is after taxes. Top players in euroleague make several million dollars a year.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=303938

 

[jwinslow]

Or they could stay in school - major in Phys ED and take the minimum full time hours - and improve? Of course, given recent performance and the rate at which marginal players have been bailing it's clear many don't see our coaching staff as key to their future success.

Basketball is also a bizarre sport where you can often cash in big simply on the potential to be great, like the lofty draft projections for Glenn Robinson Jr (which never made sense to me).

He stayed in school, turned out to be merely good, and slid pretty far in the draft when he finally declared.


Now that's a different discussion from many of the recent OSU declarations, but it does speak to the mindset of those in their circles. It also explains the wisdom of a guy like cook or koufos or Mullens going pro before they're very well rounded. Unlike the recent debated departures, those 3 had a lot of upside and didn't stay long enough to highlight their limitations.

 

[Systems_id]

Already in school for free (with meals)

or

Quit school, go work at McDonalds for 2-3 years then come back to school and pay your own way

which sounds like a better idea?

The employment opportunities at McDonald's are limited and require a degree.

The employment opportunities in the NBA (and overseas) are not and do not require a degree.

Easy decision if I was an athletic person over 6' tall and semi-decent at basketball.

I mean if your sole professional goal is to play basketball then you'd be an idiot to continue playing for free pursuing an "education" that's essentially worthless unless you know it'll improve your draft stock.

 

[BuckeyeNation27]

These kids have a skill where they're better than almost everybody else in the world. To tell them to ignore that and get busy taking a shitty 9-5.....I dunno.

 

[buckeyebri]

The employment opportunities at McDonald's are limited and require a degree.

Really? Since when?

The employment opportunities in the NBA (and overseas) are not and do not require a degree.

But they do require a certain level of talent to be able to make it, which I believe is where the questioning comes in.

I mean if your sole professional goal is to play basketball then you'd be an idiot to continue playing for free pursuing an "education" that's essentially worthless unless you know it'll improve your draft stock.

So, in your estimation there is no monetary value in the college education being received by these players, or the apparel and training? If they don't make it in the league and go on to graduate, at lease they have something plus the alumni connections of a tOSU athlete. Granted how much development is going on with the coaching staff and players at this time. I look at the commentary and the play I have seen and wonder where some of these guys will even get a chance if they do come out. At least Diebler, Cook, Koufos, Mullens, etal had some legit skills.

 

[Dee-Liem]

I keep thinking about a line given by European soccer coach Jose Mourinho when he was coaching Chelsea last season.

He said he needed to switch off (sub) eight players but only had three subs.

If Thad Matta had his way, I wonder how many of the current roster he'd actually keep. Then again, it's not like recruiting is operating a breakneck pace to replace the players.

I continue to question if Wesson, Beverly and Funderburk will be enough to change anything.

 

[Systems_id]

Really? Since when?

Since the financial crash. You need almost need a degree just to flip burgers these days. Degrees aren't worth anything these days unless your a STEM major.

But they do require a certain level of talent to be able to make it, which I believe is where the questioning comes in.

Fair enough but that's the question isn't it? Do these kids lack talent or are they simply not being developed? If you can potentially get better training somewhere else, make that your sole focus, and actually get paid for it, then why the hell wouldn't you? Especially when you realistically only have ten good years to try.

So, in your estimation there is no monetary value in the college education being received by these players, or the apparel and training? If they don't make it in the league and go on to graduate, at lease they have something plus the alumni connections of a tOSU athlete. Granted how much development is going on with the coaching staff and players at this time. I look at the commentary and the play I have seen and wonder where some of these guys will even get a chance if they do come out. At least Diebler, Cook, Koufos, Mullens, etal had some legit skills.

No not really. The education doesn't really do a whole lot for you if you're sole focus is playing basketball. Neither does the "training" since most of these players haven't improved whatsoever since the day they've stepped foot on campus.

 

[buckeyebri]

Since the financial crash. You need almost need a degree just to flip burgers these days. Degrees aren't worth anything these days unless your a STEM major.

Must be why so many retirees are working at McDonalds these days....

Fair enough but that's the question isn't it? Do these kids lack talent or are they simply not being developed? If you can potentially get better training somewhere else, make that your sole focus, and actually get paid for it, then why the hell wouldn't you? Especially when you realistically only have ten good years to try.

No not really. The education doesn't really do a whole lot for you if you're sole focus is playing basketball. Neither does the "training" since most of these players haven't improved whatsoever since the day they've stepped foot on campus.

I think it is a bit of both regarding talent and development. I agree most of these guys have either not improved or gone backwards. I can't believe that this is most of these players sole focus and that they are working that hard at their craft to play the way they do on the court. The work effort and attitude is just not there from all appearances. If Loving didn't get his degree then it will be a true waste of his 4 years. And, I certainly hope most of these guys like Tate and Williams are working on their degrees so they have something to fall back on.

 

[OhioState001]

I'm putting the blame for lack of player development on the players we've had recently. Thad has developed plenty of players: Evan Turner, Craft, Diebler, Lighty, Deshaun Thomas, Buford (minus the senior season), Ross, Lenzelle Smith, and even Trevor Thompson. But those guys all struck me as gym rats who put in a ton of time into getting better. I don't get that sense from any current players

 

[brodybuck21]

I'm putting the blame for lack of player development on the players we've had recently. Thad has developed plenty of players: Evan Turner, Craft, Diebler, Lighty, Deshaun Thomas, Buford (minus the senior season), Ross, Lenzelle Smith, and even Trevor Thompson. But those guys all struck me as gym rats who put in a ton of time into getting better. I don't get that sense from any current players

Lyle is one that intrigues/frustrates me all to hell. but then you look back at his recruitment and it was a strange one. especially for a guy so highly rated coming out of HS

 

[Jaxbuck]

The employment opportunities at McDonald's are limited and require a degree.

No college degree is required to be the minimum wage fry guy at McD's and that's exactly what NBA DL money equates to.

The employment opportunities in the NBA (and overseas) are not and do not require a degree.

They do however require an elite level of ability to play basketball. One would think success at the college level would be an indicator of possessing said ability and that, subsequently, a lack of success in college would indicate it's absence.

Easy decision if I was an athletic person over 6' tall and semi-decent at basketball.

The world is full of guys over 6' that are semi athletic. They are not at all qualified to play professional basketball. The bar is considerably higher.

I mean if your sole professional goal is to play basketball then you'd be an idiot to continue playing for free pursuing an "education" that's essentially worthless unless you know it'll improve your draft stock.

If a persons only goal is still professional basketball after being just average (or worse) in college then that person is truly an idiot and headed for some hard times as life teaches the painful lesson of bed decisions = bad results.

Backup plans (like a free college degree) are usually a good idea just in case those lottery ticket odds on being drafted by the NBA don't hit.

 

[OhioState001]

Lyle is one that intrigues/frustrates me all to hell. but then you look back at his recruitment and it was a strange one. especially for a guy so highly rated coming out of HS

If I remember scouts were always talking about how he was overweight/out of shape

 

[CFPBuckeye]

Easy decision if I was an athletic person over 6' tall and semi-decent at basketball.

In regards to the NBA, they aren't semi-decent. Nobody on the roster is anywhere near NBA talent and might only be borderline overseas talent since you have to be able to shoot and play team ball.

I mean if your sole professional goal is to play basketball then you'd be an idiot to continue playing for free pursuing an "education" that's essentially worthless unless you know it'll improve your draft stock.

That education isn't worthless. You make it sound like these guys are talented and don't need a real education. It's quite the opposite. If they think their future is in basketball, they REALLY need an education. Last I checked, DeShaun Thomas and Aaron Craft didn't make it in the NBA and we would be lucky if anyone on the current roster were even close to THAT talent level.

 

[NFBuck]

I'm putting the blame for lack of player development on the players we've had recently. Thad has developed plenty of players: Evan Turner, Craft, Diebler, Lighty, Deshaun Thomas, Buford (minus the senior season), Ross, Lenzelle Smith, and even Trevor Thompson. But those guys all struck me as gym rats who put in a ton of time into getting better. I don't get that sense from any current players

Your list includes nobody recruited after 2011 aside from Thompson. The 2012 class-on is when this slide started. Probably not coincidentally, that's when most of Matta's better assistants left. And ultimately, isn't it the coach's job to motivate the players to put in the work? He had essentially an entire class wash out after one year. That's either a stunningly poor judgment of talent/character, or an utter failure of coaching. Neither of those options are particularly appealing for the future of this program under Thad Matta. One or two guys coming off as lazy, and/or having flippant attitudes towards the game can be labeled as "bad apples", an entire roster? Not so much. Something stinks beyond just lazy/uncommitted players.

Name one player from the 2012 class onward that you would say "developed" here. Thompson is arguable; he had his moments, but was also prone to some horrible mistakes, mostly of the foul variety. It's worth noting he was a transfer. D'Angelo Russell was an elite talent that played like one. I suppose you could include him, but I think he'd have succeeded pretty much anywhere.

Amir Williams, Sam Thompson, Shannon Scott, Marc Loving, Kam Williams, Jae'Sean Tate...all of these guys received significant playing time over multiple years, and none made or have made significant leaps in their game...and I'm not talking superficial statistical bumps due to increased minutes. tOSU has had one player that came through this program since 2012 playing in the NBA (Russell). ONE. And it's not a stretch to say none of this year's exits are heading that way.

I think Matta's biggest issue has been questionable assistant hires. As his purported health issues started, one would assume he would have to lean more on his staff. Clearly the staff isn't getting it done. Ultimately, that falls on Matta.

 

[OhioState001]

Your list includes nobody recruited after 2011 aside from Thompson. The 2012 class-on is when this slide started. Probably not coincidentally, that's when most of Matta's better assistants left. And ultimately, isn't it the coach's job to motivate the players to put in the work? One or two guys coming off as lazy, and/or having flippant attitudes towards the game can be labeled as "bad apples", an entire roster? Not so much. Something stinks beyond just lazy/uncommitted players.

Name one player from the 2012 class onward that you would say "developed" here. Thompson is arguable; he had his moments, but was also prone to some horrible mistakes, mostly of the foul variety. It's worth noting he was a transfer. D'Angelo Russell was an elite talent that played like one. I suppose you could include him, but I think he'd have succeeded pretty much anywhere.

Amir Williams, Sam Thompson, Shannon Scott, Marc Loving, Kam Williams, Jae'Sean Tate...all of these guys received significant playing time over multiple years, and none made or have made significant leaps in their game...and I'm not talking superficial statistical bumps due to increased minutes. tOSU has had one player that came through this program since 2012 playing in the NBA (Russell). ONE.

I think Matta's biggest issue has been questionable assistant hires. As his purported health issues started, one would assume he would have to lean more on his staff. Clearly the staff isn't getting it done. Ultimately, that falls on Matta.

We had Jeff Boals up until last year, and Alan Major is back although I don't know if he works with players at all.

It probably is a combination of Paulus/Dickerson not being ideal assistants and bad players (who I guess they brought in). Anyway Thad doesn't strike me as someone willing to fire his assistants, so I guess we are stuck with them