2015-16 Ohio State Quarterback Discussion

[OSUK]

I guess I'm thinking more of the sharps than the betting public. Phil Steele, for example, operates on cold, hard facts overload!

I don't follow polls for presidential elections. I go to site where real people put up real money, and they put that money on a horse (candiate). It's amazing how accurate it is, not just in terms of the winner, but the winning margin. So, while I am not a gambler, I do recognize the value of its model in predicting future event outcomes.

 

[kinch]

Vegas may be corrupt, but they do not deal in emotion and sentiment, but rather cold, hard facts - something hard for fans to do.

If JT is 100% healthy, he's the guy - and it's not really close. He wins by a mile on leadership, efficiency, reads, and ability to execute every concept in the playbook. It's the emotional tug of thinking about Cardale's 3 game performance and Braxton's 3 years of providing thrills that fog it up. Understandably so, but I would guess if we polled non-OSU people who have played and/or coached the position, and who have reviewed what each can/can't do, JT would win that poll by a large margin.

I am generally of this view. Like everyone else I love the discussion, but honestly I am excited for and will be happy with any result.

It will be a fun year to be a Buckeye.

 

[OSUK]

Ryan McGee wrote an article on the QB situation at Ohio State. While he noted that Urban Meyer and strong player leadership will help inhibit a 3-way fracture on the team, he said you could sense a hint of it during the spring. It's something I've been worried about, but the 3 QB's seem to defy the possibility of that happening with their public comments about the situation and each other. We will see.

Phil Steele said yesterday that Urban "can' go wrong" in that no matter which guy is #1, they will win with him. But if he had to pick one, he would go with JT because of the number of things he does well. He also said that if Braxton isn't the #1, he expects him to be used in a variety of positions and ways to help him build an NFL future.

McGee says the #1 QB will be the guy who wins the locker room as the best leader. FWIW

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

He wins by a mile on leadership, efficiency, reads, and ability to execute every concept in the playbook.

You could not be more wrong on the "by a mile" remark. Cardale was the #2 guy right up until literally days before Miller's injury. Watch his presence and leadership on the field during the three-game run. He took command and took it firmly. He also showed the ability to go through his progressions when needed, albeit the playbook was tweaked due to the immediacy of the situation. He showed a cannon of an arm and surprising accuracy and consistency. If Barrett is indeed better, it's no way "by a mile"...

 

[jwinslow]

Cardale began taking things seriously after Barrett's injury, not before. If Ginn Sr did not intervene, he probably walks.

Leadership between the two is not close. Find another word choice that you feel comfortable with Mili, but there's a notable gulf between the two, even after his welcome maturation this offseason.

Efficiency between the two overall is not particularly close either. Jones is quite mediocre at operating the option and is equally mediocre at keeping the ball on the option other than going right up the middle. He's also a bit less efficient with his arm though JT isn't perfect in that regard.

Conversely, his arm strength and passing ceiling is not close and runs circles around JT.

 

[jlb1705]

...and the last time all three were presumed to be on-track to be healthy enough to play, both of those guys were behind Miller.

I know those two got opportunities and showed unexpected ability and improvement, but it's not a given that it was enough to keep the previous order from being restored if everybody's health and fitness return.

 

[OSUK]

You could not be more wrong on the "by a mile" remark. Cardale was the #2 guy right up until literally days before Miller's injury. Watch his presence and leadership on the field during the three-game run. He took command and took it firmly. He also showed the ability to go through his progressions when needed, albeit the playbook was tweaked due to the immediacy of the situation. He showed a cannon of an arm and surprising accuracy and consistency. If Barrett is indeed better, it's no way "by a mile"...

I believe it is, and here's why: JT had to work through the difficulty of early season problems with the OL, an injured and limited Zeke, and a defense that needed to grow. The team steadily improved, and they don't do that unless their QB is someone they trust and believe in. JT proved all he needed to prove in that Penn State game. He made mistakes and was hobbled by a knee sprain, but he did what had to be done to win that game. At Minnesota he fought through the weather and a feisty Gopher team to win that one making plays with his legs and arm. There were some tough and stressful situations against Sparty, Indiana, and Michigan - and he led his team through those in each case.

Cardale did some amazing things, the team rallied around him, and he was cool under pressure. He has proven that he can lead the offense, but he had a polished OL, a healthier Zeke, and a better defense helping him. Strong leaders had already emerged around him. He won his first game 59-0. He came back from a 15 point deficit to Alabama, and then kept making plays to keep the Buckeyes a score or two ahead of the Tide. That's the best thing he has on his resume as far as leadership. Against Oregon, he simply had the physically superior team, and never faced any real serious adversity in that one.

One guy has proven his leadership under worse circumstances and in more games. He carries himself on and off the field in a way you have to admire. He always says the right thing, and always does the right thing. Every football player respects a guy who is hurt, but does what needs to be done anyway. JT has done that. Cardale hasn't always passed those tests, or had to pass them. Cardale has a case, but in terms of leadership, it's not within a mile of JT's. If we want to just talk about arm talent, Cardale wins that one by a mile, but if it comes down to leadership, I think JT owns that category.

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

I believe it is, and here's why: JT had to work through the difficulty of early season problems with the OL, an injured and limited Zeke, and a defense that needed to grow. The team steadily improved, and they don't do that unless their QB is someone they trust and believe in. JT proved all he needed to prove in that Penn State game. He made mistakes and was hobbled by a knee sprain, but he did what had to be done to win that game. At Minnesota he fought through the weather and a feisty Gopher team to win that one making plays with his legs and arm. There were some tough and stressful situations against Sparty, Indiana, and Michigan - and he led his team through those in each case.

He also had some shaky performances. His performance overall was outstanding, but so was Cardale's in even more dire circumstances.

Cardale did some amazing things, the team rallied around him, and he was cool under pressure. He has proven that he can lead the offense, but he had a polished OL, a healthier Zeke, and a better defense helping him. Strong leaders had already emerged around him. He won his first game 59-0. He came back from a 15 point deficit to Alabama, and then kept making plays to keep the Buckeyes a score or two ahead of the Tide. That's the best thing he has on his resume as far as leadership. Against Oregon, he simply had the physically superior team, and never faced any real serious adversity in that one.

This paragraph totally supports my point that Cardale is, if not as good, but pretty damn close to Barrett. And the bolded part is just dumb. Four turnovers and having Oregon rally to within one point late in the third quarter to all to snatch the momentum from Ohio State is not serious adversity?

One guy has proven his leadership under worse circumstances and in more games. He carries himself on and off the field in a way you have to admire. He always says the right thing, and always does the right thing. Every football player respects a guy who is hurt, but does what needs to be done anyway. JT has done that. Cardale hasn't always passed those tests, or had to pass them. Cardale has a case, but in terms of leadership, it's not within a mile of JT's. If we want to just talk about arm talent, Cardale wins that one by a mile, but if it comes down to leadership, I think JT owns that category.

Yeah, and it was Cardale who proved his leadership under worse conditions, not Barrett. Cardale faced far more dire challenges in a far shorter time and never waivered or faltered. Go back and listen to the game commentators and NCG post-game analysts and how they gush about his poise and leadership. And he did against the three best teams we faced all year, in consecutive games.

 

[OSUK]

...and the last time all three were presumed to be on-track to be healthy enough to play, both of those guys were behind Miller.

I know those two got opportunities and showed unexpected ability and improvement, but it's not a given that it was enough to keep the previous order from being restored if everybody's health and fitness return.

Braxton's talent is self-evident and already quantified in OSU history. His athleticism and running instincts are off the charts. His passing lacks some consistency, efficiency, and accuracy, but combined with his running ability, it is an impressive package.

But going to leadership, this is where I have some concerns with him. He was pulled down against Purdue a couple years ago, got taken out on a cart to the hospital, was released with no specific diagnosis, and played the next week. That raised some troubling questions that have never been answered about his toughness, durability, and mental tenacity - and those are all important aspects of leadership. In addition, he seems to be pretty quiet by nature. His athleticism can help him lead by example, but I'm not sure I have seen him communicating with other players very often. If the players have no questions about his leadership, and will follow him, then that's the most important thing, but from a distance, I haven't seen him be the guy that is involved with other players, and elevating their play.

The NFL is a passing QB's game where consistency, efficiency, and accuracy is the main requirement. It's very unlikely that Braxton is going to suddenly achieve excellence in those areas as a senior. He is more likely to be what he has been. If true, his pro future is at something other than QB, so I am hoping that he is used where his greatest talent can be maximized, and where he develops a resume that will allow him to be a pro. Terrelle Pryor wasn't a highly consistent, efficient, and accurate passer either, and now he is trying to learn how to run routes and catch a ball over the summer. Braxton needs to start working on those things now. He will be better off for it, and so will Ohio State.

 

[OSUK]

He also had some shaky performances. His performance overall was outstanding, but so was Cardale's in even more dire circumstances.


This paragraph totally supports my point that Cardale is, if not as good, but pretty damn close to Barrett. And the bolded part is just dumb. Four turnovers and having Oregon rally to within one point late in the third quarter to all to snatch the momentum from Ohio State is not serious adversity?


Yeah, and it was Cardale who proved his leadership under worse conditions, not Barrett. Cardale faced far more dire challenges in a far shorter time and never waivered or faltered. Go back and listen to the game commentators and NCG post-game analysts and how they gush about his poise and leadership. And he did against the three best teams we faced all year, in consecutive games.

Yeah, I mean, some good points. We aren't going to ever agree. We just see these players differently comparatively. But that's OK because I'm not going to be upset if Cardale trots out there. But I do believe it will be JT, if for nothing else, last year's B1G and Ohio State record books suggest it strongly.

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

Yeah, I mean, some good points. We aren't going to ever agree. We just see these players differently comparatively. But that's OK because I'm not going to be upset if Cardale trots out there. But I do believe it will be JT, if for nothing else, last year's B1G and Ohio State record books suggest it strongly.

Oh, I don't misunderstand your thinking JT is the better choice, and to a degree I can see why. I just disagree with the "by a mile" evaluation. We are going to be golden whoever of the three starts.

 

[jlb1705]

The NFL is a passing QB's game where consistency, efficiency, and accuracy is the main requirement. It's very unlikely that Braxton is going to suddenly achieve excellence in those areas as a senior. He is more likely to be what he has been. If true, his pro future is at something other than QB, so I am hoping that he is used where his greatest talent can be maximized, and where he develops a resume that will allow him to be a pro. Terrelle Pryor wasn't a highly consistent, efficient, and accurate passer either, and now he is trying to learn how to run routes and catch a ball over the summer. Braxton needs to start working on those things now. He will be better off for it, and so will Ohio State.

Why are we talking about the NFL? The coaches making this decision are trying to win college football games.

For his part, what if Braxton Miller cares more about attempting to finish his career at Ohio State on his own terms than he cares about the NFL?

 

[Bill Lucas]

Braxton adds the X factor. You can't tackle him in a phone booth.

JT is a master of the offense. He knows it inside and out and executes flawlessly for the most part.

Cardale stretches the field with his arm and opens up the inside running game. However he needs that deep threat to emerge.


I'm happy with whatever coach flooded basement decides. :cheers:

 

[Hstead]

I love the way Urban is going to select the starter, no gut BS or "I think" stuff, totally based on practice performance. Everything is going to be measured and charted, no subjective crap. Well, maybe some subjectivity as Beck is going to judge how well they are improving on the weaknesses each is assigned to work on. From what I have read, all throws, drills, 7 on 7, etc is going to be broken down in the film room and graded, every single aspect gets a grade and whoever grades out the highest wins the job so the other two can't complain, everyone has the same opportunity to make the throws etc in practice and run the offense, make the reads, etc. Urban ceases to impress me with his coaching wisdom.

 

[Saw31]

This is a "Ginger or Mary Ann" thing. Ya gotta pick one, but I'd take either on a three minute tour...