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2014 tOSU Defense Discussion

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kujirakira said:
All good points ... I just think both those games provide a blueprint on how to stop MSU: 1. limit Lippett's big plays (he'll probably still get one); 2. contain Langford.
Whether we can do it... well, I'd point to the numbers but as you say those were all against pretty terrible offenses as well. So I've just got Scarlet-tinted glasses in that respect =)
Still, I believe (expect) this defense can hold MSU to 27 or less points... I'm more concerned about the offense getting more than 17 banged up in a hostile environment =/
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I agree with the bolded wholeheartedly...my prediction is 31-24 for the game for the good guys. And I don't think those offenses were awful at all, they were just incredibly one dimensional...the same one-dimensional offenses that would have ripped us for 500+ passing yards a game last season, so there is definitely MAJOR improvement there regardless because we have shut down that one dimension as opposed to last season.

I just do not want to diminish the fact that MSU can do two things well. I agree with your blueprint on how to stop them but "stop" means holding them to 20 or under imo. If we limit Lippett and Langford, there are still other players that can hurt you...not gash you, but contribute and keep the chains moving. I generally hate bend and don't break (see the "What is wrong with the 2013 defense" thread)...but it might work this week in terms of those two players. Don't play off them, just provide help.
 
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RB07OSU said:
I agree with the bolded wholeheartedly...my prediction is 31-24 for the game for the good guys. And I don't think those offenses were awful at all, they were just incredibly one dimensional...the same one-dimensional offenses that would have ripped us for 500+ passing yards a game last season, so there is definitely MAJOR improvement there regardless because we have shut down that one dimension as opposed to last season.

I just do not want to diminish the fact that MSU can do two things well. I agree with your blueprint on how to stop them but "stop" means holding them to 20 or under imo. If we limit Lippett and Langford, there are still other players that can hurt you...not gash you, but contribute and keep the chains moving. I generally hate bend and don't break (see the "What is wrong with the 2013 defense" thread)...but it might work this week in terms of those two players. Don't play off them, just provide help.
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IMO that's all we have to stop is those two... eliminating Lippett and Langford would be forcing them to fight left handed and knowing the Walrus he will keep trying and trying. Forcing them to go to options 2 or 3 may work sometimes but if you give that front of ours time to rush we can get home on Cook.

I don't think Sparta would know what to do if we forced them to go to their role players. They cannot beat us with Hill running or Price receiving.

Fuck this we are winning tomorrow.
 
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bukIpower said:
IMO that's all we have to stop is those two... eliminating Lippett and Langford would be forcing them to fight left handed and knowing the Walrus he will keep trying and trying. Forcing them to go to options 2 or 3 may work sometimes but if you give that front of ours time to rush we can get home on Cook.

I don't think Sparta would know what to do if we forced them to go to their role players. They cannot beat us with Hill running or Price receiving.

Fuck this we are winning tomorrow.
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Well I think we will win, so I agree there. But it isn't like you can simultaneously stop the run and pass...stopping 2-3 receivers means rushing the passer and implementing the coverage to stop the receivers. Yes, they have two primary threats...but the OL implements them well. I am just saying we cannot sell out on stopping a one-dimensional offense like every opponent we have faced before. What we do with that? To hell if I know, maybe we excel at shutting down an offense that is not exceptional at any given area. I just think everyone is dismissing the threat the MSU offense could pose to our defense because they have more ways than one to pressure a defense.
 
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RB07OSU said:
Well I think we will win, so I agree there. But it isn't like you can simultaneously stop the run and pass...stopping 2-3 receivers means rushing the passer and implementing the coverage to stop the receivers. Yes, they have two primary threats...but the OL implements them well. I am just saying we cannot sell out on stopping a one-dimensional offense like every opponent we have faced before. What we do with that? To hell if I know, maybe we excel at shutting down an offense that is not exceptional at any given area. I just think everyone is dismissing the threat the MSU offense could pose to our defense because they have more ways than one to pressure a defense.
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I don't look at it as stopping both the whole run and passing game. The way i see it is you take the engine out of each of those vehicles (offense/defense). You can match Grant on Lippett, and have a safety read the fly route on him while also putting 8 in the box to stop Langford.

I think Va techs plan on us would be perfect on MSU. They took away our inside run game, committed players to stop the rush in total and brought heat with tight coverage behind it.

Show me a game (not directed at you RB, after all you share my affinity for mighty ducks) where Cook was forced to win the game by involving all of his players. Because so far for 1.5 years it's been the Langford and Lippett show. Every team for the last two years has done the same thing (play them straight up and read your keys) and only 2 teams have been able to top them (none at home btw). I still like our odds because we are better than pretty much all those teams sparta rolled the past two years but i think our odds to win increase 10 fold if we make their role players do something they don't want to do which is make big plays and go win the game
 
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I'm sure some will disagree, but I think that was a pretty good defensive performance against MSU. I know everybody is hungry for the return of the Silver Bullets - but this is a different game than it was in that era. Against the best teams, often the best you can do is take away the things the other team does best, and live with what the other team does playing through their second and third options. That's what the Buckeyes did tonight, and it worked out for them beautifully. Their most dangerous player, Tony Lippett, was mostly an afterthought. Doran Grant took him out of the game. They had success running the ball, but it wasn't really the power running style that is their calling card. Michael Bennett dominated their interior line and they had to run traps to keep him from destroying their backfield. Situationally, they had to resort to Cook keeping the ball on option plays. The fact that they even had to resort to running the option with Cook is a victory for the Buckeyes.

I miss the swarming team defenses of my childhood, but these days offensive gameplans are too good at isolating individual matchups that often result in us fans pounding our heads against tables and posting Cosby GIFs. Nowadays it's not about our eight guys in the box against their eight guys in the box - it's about our their two guys in the open field against our two guys. Any team worth a damn is going to find ways to score points and pile up yards against even good defenses. Tonight our guys won way more of those 1-on-1 and 2-on-2 matchups than they lost, and considering the competition, did they best job of it that we've seen post-Tressel.
 
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jlb1705 said:
I'm sure some will disagree, but I think that was a pretty good defensive performance against MSU. I know everybody is hungry for the return of the Silver Bullets - but this is a different game than it was in that era. Against the best teams, often the best you can do is take away the things the other team does best, and live with what the other team does playing through their second and third options. That's what the Buckeyes did tonight, and it worked out for them beautifully. Their most dangerous player, Tony Lippett, was mostly an afterthought. Doran Grant took him out of the game.
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I will have to review the game but my initial reaction is the same...but I will add this: We turned the ball over deep in our own territory twice. Both times were right after our defense just got off the field since they were fumbles by the special teams...you cannot expect our defense to dominate when dealt those cards. Despite that, they stopped them on the Dontre fumble and MSU missed the field goal. The other time on the punt fumble, we had just played 6 plays in a row on a 3 and out (we accepted both penalties) and were gassed when Langford ran that ball in.

But to your main point, I think we played pretty damn well on defense against a pretty damn good team. I'd like to see us quite letting teams out of jail on 2nd and longs to get a 3rd and short (and usually convert), but overall this defense looks worlds better on the field than last year regardless of the box score. We needed to convert on some easy turnovers though (Apple's dropped INT and the two fumbles we missed). And you also have to remember many of those points (aside from turnover points) came from us being up big and allowing them to move the ball. Watching the other piss-poor defenses across the country, I will roll with these modern day Silver Bullets in any game.
 
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jlb1705 said:
I'm sure some will disagree, but I think that was a pretty good defensive performance against MSU. I know everybody is hungry for the return of the Silver Bullets - but this is a different game than it was in that era. Against the best teams, often the best you can do is take away the things the other team does best, and live with what the other team does playing through their second and third options. That's what the Buckeyes did tonight, and it worked out for them beautifully. Their most dangerous player, Tony Lippett, was mostly an afterthought. Doran Grant took him out of the game. They had success running the ball, but it wasn't really the power running style that is their calling card. Michael Bennett dominated their interior line and they had to run traps to keep him from destroying their backfield. Situationally, they had to resort to Cook keeping the ball on option plays. The fact that they even had to resort to running the option with Cook is a victory for the Buckeyes.

I miss the swarming team defenses of my childhood, but these days offensive gameplans are too good at isolating individual matchups that often result in us fans pounding our heads against tables and posting Cosby GIFs. Nowadays it's not about our eight guys in the box against their eight guys in the box - it's about our their two guys in the open field against our two guys. Any team worth a damn is going to find ways to score points and pile up yards against even good defenses. Tonight our guys won way more of those 1-on-1 and 2-on-2 matchups than they lost, and considering the competition, did they best job of it that we've seen post-Tressel.
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My only complaint was the issues getting off the field in the second half. The dropped pick-6 and facemask penalty involved a 15-point swing. Not that they needed it, but how much more impressive would it have been for the much-needed "style points"? A lot of the (un)lucky stuff seemed to fall against us in this game... and the team still prevailed. They snuffed that 4th down when they needed to, and that was crucial.
Only aspect that I was disappointed with was special teams, which has been rather quirky all year.
 
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