2013 Week 8 CFB Open Thread

[cincibuck]

At the same time you have to recognize that Cincinnati clobbered Purdue. Nebraska beat Wyoming by 3 and then got doubled up by UCLA, Navy dropped Indiana, Wisconsin played Tennessee Tech and in Prime Time, coast-to-coast telecasts Ohio State was pushed by Iowa, Cal and Northwestern and gave up a bazillion yards in passing to Abracadabra.

You could point out that Kentucky was beaten soundly by Western Ky and Louisville, but then you have to acknowledge that Northern Illinois won two games against the Big Ten as did a mediocre Notre Dame and that yeah, Wiscy was victimized by Pac 12 home cookin', but that doesn't explain why they were in need of a last second field goal against a Pac 12 middle team.

Right now SEC teams are beating each other, and the same is true in the Big Ten. That's a fact of conference life (another reason for Notre Dame to avoid alliances).

Based on what we have seen this season let Purdue and Kentucky cancel each other out. Put Minnesota up against Vandy, Indiana against Mississippi State, Northwestern against Georgia, Michigan vs South Carolina, Michigan State vs A&M, Wiscy vs LSU, Penn state and Florida, Iowa and Ol' Miss, Nebraska vs Mizzou, Ohio State against Alabama. If you don't like my match ups, move the teams around to suit yourself, I just don't see the Big Ten winning such a series. I don't think the pollsters do either.

 

[BUCKYLE]

This isn't the NFL. It's not a job. Early season struggles are common. Home or away can be the difference between winning and losing. Many teams that look unbeatable early look pathetic at mid season, at night, at home. *coughClemsoncough*
It's not nearly as simple as you or ESPN would like to believe. What's absurd is any tOSU fan that witnessed 2002, 2004, and 2006 saying anything remotely definitive halfway thru the season.

Could tOSU beat Oregon, Bama, or FSU this week? Who gives a fuck? The earliest that game would be played is Jan.

 

[cincibuck]

This isn't the NFL. It's not a job. Early season struggles are common. Home or away can be the difference between winning and losing. Many teams that look unbeatable early look pathetic at mid season, at night, at home. *coughClemsoncough*
It's not nearly as simple as you or ESPN would like to believe. What's absurd is any tOSU fan that witnessed 2002, 2004, and 2006 saying anything remotely definitive halfway thru the season.

Could tOSU beat Oregon, Bama, or FSU this week? Who gives a fuck? The earliest that game would be played is Jan.

But who OSU gets to play depends upon the here and now. Both positions are correct in this case.

 

[BUCKYLE]

But who OSU gets to play depends upon the here and now. Both positions are correct in this case.

I'd say it depends on the perception of the here and now as well as the rest of the season. If FSU loses two games, it's not going to matter if the ACC IS OMGZAMAZING or not. If Wisky finds a pulse on offense and ends up thrashing everyone left, no one is gonna give a poop that they struggled in their first few games with a new coach.

 

[alexhortdog95]

At the same time you have to recognize that Cincinnati clobbered Purdue. Nebraska beat Wyoming by 3 and then got doubled up by UCLA, Navy dropped Indiana, Wisconsin played Tennessee Tech and in Prime Time, coast-to-coast telecasts Ohio State was pushed by Iowa, Cal and Northwestern and gave up a bazillion yards in passing to Abracadabra.

You could point out that Kentucky was beaten soundly by Western Ky and Louisville, but then you have to acknowledge that Northern Illinois won two games against the Big Ten as did a mediocre Notre Dame and that yeah, Wiscy was victimized by Pac 12 home cookin', but that doesn't explain why they were in need of a last second field goal against a Pac 12 middle team.

Right now SEC teams are beating each other, and the same is true in the Big Ten. That's a fact of conference life (another reason for Notre Dame to avoid alliances).

Based on what we have seen this season let Purdue and Kentucky cancel each other out. Put Minnesota up against Vandy, Indiana against Mississippi State, Northwestern against Georgia, Michigan vs South Carolina, Michigan State vs A&M, Wiscy vs LSU, Penn state and Florida, Iowa and Ol' Miss, Nebraska vs Mizzou, Ohio State against Alabama. If you don't like my match ups, move the teams around to suit yourself, I just don't see the Big Ten winning such a series. I don't think the pollsters do either.

Respectfully, I don't think any of that matters. When you play a game on any given day, any given team can lose said game, regardless of who beat who in the past. Each week is different - that's the beauty of college football. No way did I think that last years B1G Championship game was a cakewalk for the Huskers. Nor did I think they'd puss out and let 70 get hung on em, either.

No way did I think Ole Miss was a better football team last weekend. Nor did I know that LSU would spot Ole Miss a bunch of points most of the game.

No way did I think that Iowa....IOWA of all teams....could hang with the Buckeyes at all last weekend. Nor did I know that Iowa's D was better than expected.

Games are games, and players play them. Everything sorts itself out on the field, to be honest.

There are a few things that are always the same, however:

TSUN sucks balls.
[Mark May] Bucky.
Sparty is boooooooorrring.
Northwestern is like the pesky fly that you try to swat - sometimes you can get em, some times, you can't.
Ferentz will be COY this year.
Weekends won't be ruined in Slappy Valley.
Mack Brown is still the man in Austin - all others slob his.....
Big Game Bob is still BGB.

 

[ulukinatme]

Mack Brown is still the man in Austin - all others slob his.....
Big Game Bob is still BGB.

I think Mack Brown is still going to get the axe at the end of the season, or at least pretty soon. With Deloss stepping down Mack's biggest supporter is gone. The win against OU was big for Mack, but he started off pretty poorly with the loss to BYU, a loss to Ole Miss who has one LSU game to hang their hat on, and a nail biter against Iowa friggin' State. Some analysts thought this could be a great year for Texas, and would be a make or break year for Mack. He's not completely out yet, but he's still under performing. Mack did have 9 days to prepare for OU, and OU was coming off back to back games against ND and TCU, tough to follow that up with a big rival.

 

[BuckeyeSoldier]

Based on what we have seen this season let Purdue and Kentucky cancel each other out. Put Minnesota up against Vandy, Indiana against Mississippi State, Northwestern against Georgia, Michigan vs South Carolina, Michigan State vs A&M, Wiscy vs LSU, Penn state and Florida, Iowa and Ol' Miss, Nebraska vs Mizzou, Ohio State against Alabama. If you don't like my match ups, move the teams around to suit yourself, I just don't see the Big Ten winning such a series. I don't think the pollsters do either.

I am glad you did that. You are right, but here is the problem. No one that I have heard is saying the BIG is better than the SEC. Literally no one. We are just tired of the media and Espin watchers telling us that we would lose every one of those games by 50 points and how if tOSU was in the SEC they would finished 8th. I dont doubt the SEC is better. I am SICK TO DEATH of the hyperbole of it all. Ole Miss, Miss st, Kentucky, Vandy, Auburn, Arkansas, TexAM, Missouri, Florida, and Georgia. Those teams would not go undefeated in the BIG, but that is what is being force fed by the SEC network and their affiliates and it has become SO prevelent that even Ohioans spew the same crap because they listen to it. Its sickening, but every time I see or hear someone try to argue that the BIG isnt as crappy as they are portrayed people fight back like you are crazy for saying the BIG is the best when no one ever argues that.

 

[cincibuck]

I am glad you did that. You are right, but here is the problem. No one that I have heard is saying the BIG is better than the SEC. Literally no one. We are just tired of the media and Espin watchers telling us that we would lose every one of those games by 50 points and how if tOSU was in the SEC they would finished 8th. I dont doubt the SEC is better. I am SICK TO DEATH of the hyperbole of it all. Ole Miss, Miss st, Kentucky, Vandy, Auburn, Arkansas, TexAM, Missouri, Florida, and Georgia. Those teams would not go undefeated in the BIG, but that is what is being force fed by the SEC network and their affiliates and it has become SO prevelent that even Ohioans spew the same crap because they listen to it. Its sickening, but every time I see or hear someone try to argue that the BIG isnt as crappy as they are portrayed people fight back like you are crazy for saying the BIG is the best when no one ever argues that.

The difference isn't facilities. The difference isn't potential recruiting income. The difference probably has a cultural component to it. It certainly is a fact that the South has been gaining population while the Mid-west has been losing. It might be that in the South "institutional control" means that academics don't get in the way of football, but we know that Big Ten schools will find ways to sign marginal students if they're perceived to be potential stars too. Whatever the difference is, the income from the games themselves and from conference revenue streams to include BTN should make the conference capable of competing.

 

[BuckeyeSoldier]

The difference isn't facilities. The difference isn't potential recruiting income. The difference probably has a cultural component to it. It certainly is a fact that the South has been gaining population while the Mid-west has been losing. It might be that in the South "institutional control" means that academics don't get in the way of football, but we know that Big Ten schools will find ways to sign marginal students if they're perceived to be potential stars too. Whatever the difference is, the income from the games themselves and from conference revenue streams to include BTN should make the conference capable of competing.

Huh? was there a thought process in there that I missed? How did we get from perception to reasons for success? Oh well, I dont mind diving into that one as well.
IMO we had a perfect storm temporarily sink the BIG.

Population has moved south but I doubt its as extreme a factor as some would say.

More televised games makes the game less regional and more national, as such a 4 or 5 star kid from Iowa might be more willing to take a 4 year vacation at LSU when previously he wouldnt have considered such a trip. This is a huge advantage for warm coastal states again IMO.

Culture, like you said what passes at Ole Miss as a Student Athlete wont fly at Wisky. Badgers might skirt the rules for a few top recruits where as Ole Miss might do the same for every tom dick and harry that comes in and buy the 5 star a few cars.

ESPN. What started an annoying habit of over ranking the SEC and sucking certain schools dicks, has turned into a full on self fulfilling prophecy of propaganda that heavily influences voters, writers, fans, and most importantly recruits. ESPN is a real problem that I hope Delaney has some sort of plan to deal with because under the current arrangement they are going to continue to cause real harm to the conference.

Jim Tressel. I love the man and am glad he was ours, but I believe he did a HUGE disservice to the rest of the conference. His Ohio heavy recruiting and anaconda like style of play sucked talent and excitement out of all the programs in the area. He returned us to the pinnacle but he did so in such a way that our regular foes seem to have the life squeezed right out of them.

Urban Meyer and Nick Saban. The vast majority of the SEC's true dominance came from having the two best coaches in the nation. Outside of Auburn deciding to buy a title. When was the last time the SEC won a title from a school not associated with one of these two men? Phillip Fulmer in 1998 (fuck that)

I am sure I had another reason but now I am pissed at Tennessee again...

 

[Bucky32]

IMO, the SEC is actually down a little from the past few years and the Pac-12 is on a similar level to them this season.

Those who said the league needs better players are spot on. When the B1G has had it's good seasons, you had teams like Iowa, Purdue, and MSU on the upswing at the same time.

The Nebraska addition was good for the league, and while I don't think Rutgers and Maryland are great, they should be good enough to improve the middle of the conference and I'd expect them to outperform Illinois, Indiana, Purdue, and Minnesota over the long haul.

 

[HorseshoeFetish]

IMO, the SEC is actually down a little from the past few years and the Pac-12 is on a similar level to them this season.

Those who said the league needs better players are spot on. When the B1G has had it's good seasons, you had teams like Iowa, Purdue, and MSU on the upswing at the same time.

The Nebraska addition was good for the league, and while I don't think Rutgers and Maryland are great, they should be good enough to improve the middle of the conference and I'd expect them to outperform Illinois, Indiana, Purdue, and Minnesota over the long haul.

How fast do you think the NCAA would level sanctions against any of these schools if they pulled an Ole Miss or UK recruiting class?

 

[HorseshoeFetish]

ESPN. What started an annoying habit of over ranking the SEC and sucking certain schools dicks, has turned into a full on self fulfilling prophecy of propaganda that heavily influences voters, writers, fans, and most importantly recruits. ESPN is a real problem that I hope Delaney has some sort of plan to deal with because under the current arrangement they are going to continue to cause real harm to the conference.

AGREE!!!!! What bothers me is that Delaney seems to be taking way too many back seats lately.

 

[kujirakira]

Huh? was there a thought process in there that I missed? How did we get from perception to reasons for success? Oh well, I dont mind diving into that one as well.
IMO we had a perfect storm temporarily sink the BIG.

Population has moved south but I doubt its as extreme a factor as some would say.

More televised games makes the game less regional and more national, as such a 4 or 5 star kid from Iowa might be more willing to take a 4 year vacation at LSU when previously he wouldnt have considered such a trip. This is a huge advantage for warm coastal states again IMO.

Culture, like you said what passes at Ole Miss as a Student Athlete wont fly at Wisky. Badgers might skirt the rules for a few top recruits where as Ole Miss might do the same for every tom dick and harry that comes in and buy the 5 star a few cars.

ESPN. What started an annoying habit of over ranking the SEC and sucking certain schools dicks, has turned into a full on self fulfilling prophecy of propaganda that heavily influences voters, writers, fans, and most importantly recruits. ESPN is a real problem that I hope Delaney has some sort of plan to deal with because under the current arrangement they are going to continue to cause real harm to the conference.

Jim Tressel. I love the man and am glad he was ours, but I believe he did a HUGE disservice to the rest of the conference. His Ohio heavy recruiting and anaconda like style of play sucked talent and excitement out of all the programs in the area. He returned us to the pinnacle but he did so in such a way that our regular foes seem to have the life squeezed right out of them.

Urban Meyer and Nick Saban. The vast majority of the SEC's true dominance came from having the two best coaches in the nation. Outside of Auburn deciding to buy a title. When was the last time the SEC won a title from a school not associated with one of these two men? Phillip Fulmer in 1998 (fuck that)

I am sure I had another reason but now I am pissed at Tennessee again...

I'd add
- Bowl game locations. Who wins the final games is the biggest factor in both the final rankings and the next year's preseason rankings. Home field advantage does exist - especially in the sense of weather. Having weather amenable to spread passing games year-round, and being guaranteed that environment in the post-season, is directly linked to the myth of "SEC speed".

- Education. The SEC isn't concerned one bit about getting their players an education. The 5-yr graduation rates for football scholarship recipients show that basically only Florida and Vanderbilt live up to the standard. It would appear that if a kid fails to perform in the SEC, they are run them out of the program to make room for new blood -- that's how schools like 'Bama, LSU, Auburn, South Carolina, & Arkansas recruit >25 kids every year.
In the past 4 years we've awarded 91 scholarships to new recruits; in the same period all those schools have recruited over 100. Vanderbilt, with 94, has the lowest total for the entire SEC.

Edit: if I include Missouri and TAMU; Missouri has by far the least at 80 -- TAMU has 97 (same as Georgia & Tenn)