2012 Defense Discussion

[MaxBuck]

Just you watch! CAL is going to be in the Rose Bowl! MARK IT DOWN!

After watching USC and its inept line play this weekend, this prediction seems less outlandish than it once would have.

 

[GeorgiaBuck2]

I don't understand the fire lit under Fickell's seat right now. The guy has been here for 10 years and during that time up until now, his units and defenses have been one of the best in the nation and always praised for their tackling around the country. The players I saw struggling to make tackles at times either due to being a step behind, whiffing on a knockout haymaker type hit, or just arm tackling and falling to their knees, are the same guys we've been watching do it for two years now. Grant, Howard, Barnett, Shazier, and Sabino ALL looked terrible at times on Saturday. The only player in our back 7 I see willing to come UP and make a play consistently at the LOS is Roby and he's a freaking cornerback. Our Linebackers are not filling holes at the LOS; instead they're letting the backs initiate contact and making tackles for 4-5 yard gains. Aside from the inability to get 11 defenders swarming TO THE BALL, our back 7 is flat out terrible at shedding blocks. You could have engaged and driven Travis Howard out of the stadium and all the way down to High Street on Saturday if you wanted to, it was that bad. Some may call this a lack of coaching or a failure on the staffs part but when I was growing up and playing ball, we all got coached the same techniques and style of play - but you had to WANT to play defense and make tackles, and I just don't think some of the people in our back 7 have that in them right now. If I were on this staff, I would be showing my back 7 tapes of Doss, Wilhelm, Hawk, Whitner, Laurinaitis, and Jenkins so they can see what tackling is all about. They all have the talent and ability to be great, they just need that moment where it mentally clicks for them in my opinion - and I hope it happens quick for their own sake.

I have seen some of these very same things said already by some on here (including mods), but if this is considered bashing a buckeye for calling out certain players, I did not intend it to be so and will edit/remove it.

Heacock.

 

[End of Line]

Heacock.

Yeah, we are missing him greatly right now.

My dad still wishes Pagac was still Defensive Coordinator. lol.

 

[ShowMeBuck]

Find myself thinking about Heacock too but more about the great leaders we have had at LB, not just great players but leaders. We need one BAD right now. I think Heacock was great but I think it's also about a lack of leadership on defense and the fact that our D coaches haven't gelled yet. I think the O coaches have gelled much more than the D coaches. Add to that the fact that Brax is starting to lead that unit and no one is doing that on the D side and I think that helps explain why the offense has looked better than the defense IMO. We have some great D line players but ideally you want your field general on D to be a LB and right now we simply don't have one.

When looking at the coaches on each side, watch Urbs presser today when he is asked how involved he gets on D during a game. His response is very telling. He basically said he doesn't get real involved. So you have Urb and his strong leadership on the O side but who is taking that leadership on the D side? Each side of the ball has co-coordinators but the O side has Urb as the ultimate leader and the D side doesn't have it. That's why Warriner and Herman seem to be working well together so far, Urb is involved. Watching what happens between Vrabel, Fick, and Withers will be interesting to watch. Once one of them steps up and a LB does the same on the field things will improve. Oh and wrapping up when tackling would help too

 

[MU-Buck]

I fail to see how some people hold this offense in such high regard, but slam our defense?

I think our defense needs to get moderately better! Too many missed tackles, blown assignments in the secondary and we need someone besides Simon to pressure the QB when we rush 4.

However, the offense needs to get moderately better too. Too many 3 and outs (especially with our pace on O, this can HURT our defense). We still need a RB to shoulder more of the weight in the rushing game. Braxton is improving, but accuracy still has a mild to moderate way to go.

I know people will point to the yardage the D has given up, but wenhaven't given up a lot of points. Yeah, Cal put up a big number on us, made it too close for comfort... But why didn't our O put up 48 points on Cal? We're good enough too!

 

[OSUK]

However, the offense needs to get moderately better too. Too many 3 and outs (especially with our pace on O, this can HURT our defense).

No small point. I don't think it is any coincidence that when the offense was going 3 and out in the 3rd qtr, Cal seemed to become much more effective when they had the ball. Even when the spread is clicking, the offense will score quickly and the defense is back on the field.

I told my buddy when Urban was hired that we would have to recalibrate our expectations of what the scores of games will be. I said we would have to win some games 38-31 or something like that. Bud looked at me like I was crazy, but I think he is beginning to see what I was talking about.

Do I want a return to running Dave 50% of the time, possessing the ball, resting the D, and being content with the punt? Nope. I love what this offense does and the potential of what it can be. But there is a price you pay for it, and part of that price falls on the defense.

The only way to negate that price is to have talent 2 deep on defense where those 22 players are essentially interchangeable. We might have that on the D line, but not in the secondary, and certainly not at LB.

 

[MU-Buck]

After re-watching the game, Ryan Shazier is GOOD at best! I love him, the fact that he is a true sophomore, wow! I think he will be elite by his senior year!

But right now, for every big energizing hit he has, he also has a blown assignment, overruns a play, doesn't wrap up, etc. On both of Bigelow's long TD runs, he had a chance to limit the play to a short gain instead of ~140 yards and 2 TDs.

The kid will be GREAT... But he has a lot of room for growth to get there!

 

[Holy Buckeye!]

IMO....The key to our Defense is protecting the wide side of the field. This is a combo of the Star and Sam position's main responsibility. We had Hines and Whitner at the Star and have had numerous studs at the Sam in past years, which in turn is a major contributing factor to our past successes on defense.

This is not to sell short many of our other great defensive players at other positions we have enjoyed in recent years but currently it is an area where we are badly under serviced. Right now these two spots for us are just poor to average. This is a real factor to the overall weakness in our defense. No playmaking/bad angles, moderate instincts, etc....

Crazy idea and for just some thoughts . Put one of fastest and most instinctive players at the key Star spot say Shazier or other...Like Shazier last year this year the special team's demon is clearly not one but two freshman #34 and #25 both Linebackers!!! Sam position perhaps? We need guys that want contact and can run and tackle, basically playermakers for these two key positions.
Either OJ or Woods at the Star and Sabino at the Sam expect more of what we have been observing last year and three games in.

FTR....Sabino is just average at best and just looks stiff. How many games does he need to adjust? Love the kid true Buckeye through and through but move him to LEO instead of ineffective JT. Moore.. but him at Sam...enough.

I hope we see some others players get an opportunity against UAB. At Sam; Perry, Smith, Williams Marcus, Roberts, Perkins, etc... At Star; Shazier, Perkins Williams, Reeves, Bryant, Bogard, etc...

I'm not a guru nor do I suspect I know football or defense better than Luke or any college level coach but watching key positions on our defense not attacking or understanding where to be in down and distances and looking like observers more than players is getting old.

PS...(Sam = Middle LB nowadays)


"Give me back my Bullets" Silver of course!

 

[Mariotwins]

Do I want a return to running Dave 50% of the time, possessing the ball, resting the D, and being content with the punt? Nope. I love what this offense does and the potential of what it can be. But there is a price you pay for it, and part of that price falls on the defense.

Personally I liked the strong defense. I don't want to end up looking like a PAC whatever team, giving up 30 points a game.

 

[DaddyBigBucks]

IMO....The key to our Defense is protecting the wide side of the field. ...

Interesting that you use the word "key".

UFM said that the problem with his defense is the boundary. He was referring to the fact that they align there formation to the field and offenses are responding by overloading the boundary (and presumably the defenders are not making the proper adjustments to that).

Is your suggestion that the "key" to the field is the "solution" to the boundary?

 

[jlb1705]

After re-watching the game, Ryan Shazier is GOOD at best! I love him, the fact that he is a true sophomore, wow! I think he will be elite by his senior year!

But right now, for every big energizing hit he has, he also has a blown assignment, overruns a play, doesn't wrap up, etc. On both of Bigelow's long TD runs, he had a chance to limit the play to a short gain instead of ~140 yards and 2 TDs.

The kid will be GREAT... But he has a lot of room for growth to get there!

IIRC, Coach Meyer has said as much about Shazier. The nice thing about him is that most of his mistakes are still at 100 MPH. Because of that though, he shows up in enough highlights that I think some people believe he has already arrived as a player. Like Braxton Miller on the offensive side, he does some great things but has a way to go before he's a complete player. When he gets there though, watch out.

 

[Bill Lucas]

Corners have to blow up blockers on the edge and linebackers have to run inside out to make tackles. Antoine Winfield and AJ Hawk, where are you?

 

[NJ-Buckeye]

We're playing very soft on the corners (even on 3rd & short !?!!)... that gives up the quick routes... and for some reason... sometimes causes the corners to forget the WR who slides behind them into empty zones

 

[bukIpower]

We're playing very soft on the corners (even on 3rd & short !?!!)... that gives up the quick routes... and for some reason... sometimes causes the corners to forget the WR who slides behind them into empty zones

Which gives the recievers much more freedom to position themselves for either A) quick throws or B) throw a move to get the DB to bite for a deep throw. If we're going to blitz more than normal you'd think they'd Press/man on the outside to try and eliminate quick strikes.

 

[bassplayer7770]

OSU v. Cal: Defensive Breakdown by Ross Fulton at 11W

Another excellent breakdown.