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2010 tOSU Special Teams Discussion

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DaddyBigBucks;1775294; said:
I agree to a point. But there are quite a few scholarship players already on special teams. Moving up JHall and Boom to the coverage units should help.
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Plus the party line for the past few years has been that they take fewer OL recruits so they can take more DB/LB types being that they can play special teams even if they aren't a starter. If they are reaching for starters now that whole theory is pretty much shot in the ass.

I cannot for the life of me attribute this to OSU's depth players not being physically talented enough to get the job done. That makes zero sense.

I think they have now reached the point where they are trying too hard and getting more out of control instead of better. I'm still halfway optimistic in that coaching problems can usually be resolved during the season. Talent issues can not.
 
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Wisconsin and Iowa both gave up long returns..maybe in those games the return game will even out.
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Don't forget Minnie. All three of those teams gave up TD returns of 97 yards or more - and all to PAC 10 speed.

The reason why they had that many yards is because we had 7 scoring drives. If you divide it out, they averaged 27 yards per return. Still not great by any means, but better than the Miami game.
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If folks were arguing this game was the problem game I would agree. But this game - against Ohio U let's remember - was the best we have done in a while. And we were one flag from that average being 41 yards.
 
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Oh8ch;1775399; said:
If folks were arguing this game was the problem game I would agree. But this game - against Ohio U let's remember - was the best we have done in a while. And we were one flag from that average being 41 yards.
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That's a very weak "if". It's not like it was a bailout for a unit that wasn't doing its job. The flag came on an infringement against a player that was in position to stop or slow down the returner. The kick coverage was doing it's job on that play, and it was broken open by something illegal. What more do we want from the coverage team on that play?
 
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jlb1705;1775407; said:
That's a very weak "if". It's not like it was a bailout for a unit that wasn't doing its job. The flag came on an infringement against a player that was in position to stop or slow down the returner. The kick coverage was doing it's job on that play, and it was broken open by something illegal. What more do we want from the coverage team on that play?
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Agreed on that account. Let's not forget 7 scores and the opening kick off so that's down to 24 yards per return. That punt block bothers me a heck of a lot more than a block in the back TD return.
 
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From what I've seen the coverage problem is that guys are being too aggressive. They want to come down and make the perfect hit rather than come down under control and converge on the returner. It doesn't help when illegal blocks aren't called, but you would like for the overall coverage to be good enough that you don't have to rely on the refs to stop a return TD.
The kicks not being as deep as we are used to seeing can also make the coverage look worse. Over the past 8-9 years OSU has been blessed with kickers that put a large percentage of their kicks out of the endzone. Have we had a touchback yet this year? I'm just glad we have Barclay to do the kicking while Basil get's his feet well on kickoffs. Even Nuge wasn't very good his freshman year so it's good that Basil gets some experience with a vet handling most of the kicking. Hopefully he can start powering the kicks into the endzone.
If I was ever a coach I would be willing to take a PF once or twice per game if the returner doesn't call a fair catch when the coverage gets to him. Just have one of the gunners lay him out and put the fear of God in him. He might think twice the next time he is returning a punt.
 
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DaddyBigBucks;1775294; said:
I agree to a point. But there are quite a few scholarship players already on special teams. Moving up JHall and Boom to the coverage units should help.
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Yes, but I was talking about recruiting guys specifically to play on special teams, and on special teams only (unless needed on offense or defense in an emergency). Would it be worth it to "waste" two or three schollies on kids who would (in theory) be four-year special teams stars? Kids who might never crack the two-deep on offense or defense but are willing and able to do what it takes to get the job done on special teams? In the past, Ohio State has had kids like Shaun Lane, and Sirjo Welch, and Central McClellion (remember him?) who were special teams stars, even though they were recruited as defensive backs (but rarely played there). Wouldn't it make some sense to target a kid like that every year and offer him a schollie as a special teams specialist?
 
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LordJeffBuck;1775481; said:
Yes, but I was talking about recruiting guys specifically to play on special teams, and on special teams only (unless needed on offense or defense in an emergency). Would it be worth it to "waste" two or three schollies on kids who would (in theory) be four-year special teams stars? Kids who might never crack the two-deep on offense or defense but are willing and able to do what it takes to get the job done on special teams? In the past, Ohio State has had kids like Shaun Lane, and Sirjo Welch, and Central McClellion (remember him?) who were special teams stars, even though they were recruited as defensive backs (but rarely played there). Wouldn't it make some sense to target a kid like that every year and offer him a schollie as a special teams specialist?
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in the era of 85 schollies if you have guys just playing st and not in any other roles you are going to have a serious shortage of skill and talent all across the board.
 
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exhawg;1775419; said:
From what I've seen the coverage problem is that guys are being too aggressive. They want to come down and make the perfect hit rather than come down under control and converge on the returner.
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Bingo! I said the exact same thing to my son last week; coming down out of control. A little work on coming under control and breaking down and many of these issues will be resolved.

The kicks not being as deep as we are used to seeing can also make the coverage look worse. Over the past 8-9 years OSU has been blessed with kickers that put a large percentage of their kicks out of the endzone. Have we had a touchback yet this year?
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Not only are the kicks not as deep, but there is some inconsistencies to the kicks as well. Some have decent height some are more line drive. Some make it close to the goal line, some are fielded around the 10 yard line. This inconsistency on kicking depth and hang time adds another level of complexity to the kickoff team.

Just for the record, I am not big fan of the spread punt...if theoretically it puts you in better position to cover the kick, well it needs work too. Protection on the block was an obvious missed assignment not just the up-men but the guys on the line didn't get a solid jam on the rushers either.
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I too do not like the "spread" punt. If they are going to go with it, then more practice is needed. OU made it look pretty easy on that block to get 4-5 guys through that damned "spread" out line; really difficult for the 3 up-men to block 4-5 guys coming free.

I am confident that these issues will be resolved, or will be improved upon as the season progresses. I expect kickoffs to get more consistent as it relates to depth and hang time which will allow the cover team to focus more on when to come under control and break down and I expect better blocking assignment recognition from the punt unit.
 
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Jaxbuck;1775392; said:
I think they have now reached the point where they are trying too hard and getting more out of control instead of better. I'm still halfway optimistic in that coaching problems can usually be resolved during the season. Talent issues can not.
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I think this says a lot about the situation. These special teamers are so eager to make the big play to get themselves in position for more PT that they are almost sacrificing the good of the unit. I can't think of any other reason why our 2nd and 3rd teamers aren't able to excel against other teams' mostly 2nd and 3rd teamers.

note: I do realize that many teams will put some starters in their kick return units, but for the most part fill those with non-starters.
 
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WaitingforKickoff;1775485; said:
in the era of 85 schollies if you have guys just playing st and not in any other roles you are going to have a serious shortage of skill and talent all across the board.
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Twenty years ago they said the same thing about kickers and punters....

Let's face it - 25% of the roster is never going to see meaningful minutes anyway. Why not try to replace some of those career bench warmers with productive special teamers, guys who can be first stringers on special teams rather than third stringers on offense or defense?
 
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LordJeffBuck;1775501; said:
Twenty years ago they said the same thing about kickers and punters....

Let's face it - 25% of the roster is never going to see meaningful minutes anyway. Why not try to replace some of those career bench warmers with productive special teamers, guys who can be first stringers on special teams rather than third stringers on offense or defense?
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Are other top ten teams doing this? Perhaps I've just got my head in the sand, but I've really believed/bought into the notion that this is a coaching issue.
 
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