2010 Heisman Trophy Discussion

[Dryden]

http://scores.espn.go.com/ncf/recap?gameId=302820130

The Spartans seemed to rattle Robinson, who hadn't been tested by a good defense this year.

He was 17 of 29 for 215 yards and accounted for two touchdowns, but made the three costly turnovers and ran for a season-low 86 yards -- with a long of 16 -- on 21 carries.

"We contained him," defensive tackle Kevin Pickelman said. "We knew he couldn't throw the ball."

 

[woofermazing]

If he's playing a defense good enough to contain his running ability without biting so hard that receivers are running free, he's going to have a bad day. Damn near everything he threw successfully during the first 5 games was a run pass option where the defense always sold out to stop the run.
He's not accurate enough to throw to anything but a wide open receiver when the defense knows he's dropping back. Given RR's track record wrt developing qb's he won't ever be good enough to do that consistently either.

 

[Esoteria]

If he's playing a defense good enough to contain his running ability without biting so hard that receivers are running free, he's going to have a bad day. Damn near everything he threw successfully during the first 5 games was a run pass option where the defense always sold out to stop the run.
He's not accurate enough to throw to anything but a wide open receiver when the defense knows he's dropping back. Given RR's track record wrt developing qb's he won't ever be good enough to do that consistently either.

To be fair, he didn't have the resources of Michigan to procure a good QB coach either ... so let's wait and see on DR's development.

 

[buxfan4life]

If he's playing a defense good enough to contain his running ability without biting so hard that receivers are running free, he's going to have a bad day. Damn near everything he threw successfully during the first 5 games was a run pass option where the defense always sold out to stop the run.
He's not accurate enough to throw to anything but a wide open receiver when the defense knows he's dropping back. Given RR's track record wrt developing qb's he won't ever be good enough to do that consistently either.

[All In UM Fan]But, he coached Shaun King and Pat White!!11!!1!!ZOMG!![/All In UM Fan]

 

[jwinslow]

To be fair, he didn't have the resources of Michigan to procure a good QB coach either

His staff are a bunch of WVU holdovers + a DC who has to run what those guys want (neither Shafer nor Robinson like the 3-3-5, that WVU clan held secret meetings behind Shafer's back to implement the 3-3-5 for Purdue 08)...

...plus Fred Jackson at RB coach.

So far the OL coaching/development has improved but WR & DB have taken a noticeable step back from the days of Campbell & Bedford coaching them (now at Iowa & UF respectively).

 

[OH10]

The biggest difference between Denard Robinson and TP is what is being asked of each player. Michigan has needed Shoelace for 4 quarters every game but one (BG) to put up those numbers just to beat suspect competition. He has no running back and the entire offense goes through him.

Some people see that as a good thing because of his numbers, but does it make him a better college football player?

Terrelle Pryor hasn't had a game yet where he's been needed to perform for 4 quarters. Hell, if he had played more than 2 1/4 quarters against Indiana, he could have easily passed for 500 yards. But because we have a defense that shut Indiana down, we didn't need it. We also didn't need him to run the ball (thus risking further injury).

Am I saying that makes Terrelle the best player in college football? Not necessarily, but he will have his chance to put up or shut up in some close games coming up... against real defenses. And then we shall see.

I do know that what I saw from Shoelace against Michigan State was somewhere between unimpressive and terrible. And that's the only real defense he's played all year. If he doesn't throw those 3 AWFUL picks, his team could have been in that game. Instead, they got housed... at home. He needs to win a game against a good team or I don't care what numbers he has.

 

[NFBuck]

Terrelle Pryor hasn't had a game yet where he's been needed to perform for 4 quarters.

MIami. Other than that, no.

Am I saying that makes Terrelle the best player in college football? Not necessarily, but he will have his chance to put up or shut up in some close games coming up... against real defenses. And then we shall see.

This will be interesting to see and will accurately gauge wherre TP really is in his development as a QB. He had a good game against Miami, but was still shaky at times.

I do know that what I saw from Shoelace against Michigan State was somewhere between unimpressive and terrible. And that's the only real defense he's played all year. If he doesn't throw those 3 AWFUL picks, his team could have been in that game. Instead, they got housed... at home. He needs to win a game against a good team or I don't care what numbers he has.

I did a stat comparison Re: Pryor/shoelaces in TP's thread. They're not as different as you'd expect given the disparity in playing time.

 

[Esoteria]

His staff are a bunch of WVU holdovers

Yes, but not to sell them short, Rod Smith had only been at WVU for one year.

 

[buxfan4life]

OK, I am lazy and don't really want to put forth the effort for this, but has anyone looked into avg yards/points per minute since DR has played a few full games vs TP only playing 60-75% of games?

Just curious as to how those numbers would compare.

 

[NFBuck]

OK, I am lazy and don't really want to put forth the effort for this, but has anyone looked into avg yards/points per minute since DR has played a few full games vs TP only playing 60-75% of games?

Just curious as to how those numbers would compare.

Not exactly, but I did a broad comparison in TP's thread on this page:

http://www.buckeyeplanet.com/forum/...qb-terrelle-pryor-2010-rose-bowl-mvp-603.html

 

[BrutusBobcat]

What blue print? Hope Michigan drops 7 or 8 passes? Every team has tried to contain him keep him in pocket blah blah. Michigan doesn't drop 7-8 passes(at least 3 would have been long tds) and Robinson doesn't miss 2-3 routine throws Michigan makes it a shoot out.

Wow. Here I thought you'd be ready for a serving of crow after his implosion against the first defense with a pulse that he's faced, and instead you've doubled down on flopping dreadlocks and shoelaces. What do you think is going to happen when he faces Iowa, Wisconsin and OSU?

Here is a fact: Pryor will beat Robinson by a wide margin in Heisman voting because he's a vastly better player on a vastly better team.

 

[buxfan4life]

Not exactly, but I did a broad comparison in TP's thread on this page:

http://www.buckeyeplanet.com/forum/...qb-terrelle-pryor-2010-rose-bowl-mvp-603.html

Not exactly what I was looking for, but it helped me come up with this:

Yards per play he is directly involved (total yards/total plays)
DR = 9.07 (2214/244)
TP = 8.12 (1722/212)

Percentage of plays that result in TDs (total TDs/total # of plays)
DR = 6.97% (17/244)
TP = 9.43% (20/212)

So, hairstring puts up a whopping yard (not even) more than TP per play, yet TP makes the most of his plays in regards to putting points on the board.

Now, stop me if I am wrong, but you can put all the numbers in the world up in yardage, but at the end of the day it is how much you get into the endzone that counts. You know, since points are the only stat that actually wins games.

From the thread:

It's not like it's all that hard to figure out their yards per play. So far this season, DR averages about 9 yards per touch and TP averages about 8.1 yards per touch. Do I really give a flying fuck about the disparity? Nope.

Exactly.

 

[Esoteria]

Stats of the top Heisman hunt players right now.

Terrell Pryor
- 1,349 yards passing (8.8ypc) 15TD, 3 Int.
- 354 yards rushing (6.2ypr) 3TD
- 19 yards receiving (9.5ypc)

Denard Robinson
- 1,223 yards passing (9.8ypc) 8TD, 4 Int.
- 991 yards rushing (8.3ypr) 9TD

Taylor Martinez
- 660 yards passing (10.3ypc) 3TD, 3 Int.
- 737 yards rushing (10.8ypr) 12TD

LaMichael James
- 848 yards rushing (7.4ypr) 9TD

Kellen Moore
- 1336 yards passing (9.9ypc) 14TD, 1 Int

Cameron Newton
- 1138 yards passing (10.5ypc) 12TD, 5 Int.
- 672 yards rushing (6.5ypr) 9TD

 

[WolverineMike]

just like i didnt hand anything to denard after they were 5-0, i'm not ruling anything out after 1 loss. i'll be interested to see how he bounces back from a sub par performance.

 

[scooter1369]

Eric Crouch doesn't get close to winning without a championship run, though.

You're kidding, right? You don't think that Nebraska being in the NC title hunt all year had anything to do with his winning the Heisman, such that comparing Crouch to DR is entirely ridiculous?

EDIT--jwins beat me to it.

I'll give you both the title run argument, but that wasn't part of the question. Crouch threw four more picks than he did TD's in his Heisman year. He ran for a Brazillion yards and even caught a TD pass, but as a QB, he was below average at best.