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2009 TSUN arguments, shenanigans (not football)

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Yeah, Mili, know what you mean. But you've got to give credit to goblue15. Not getting to Bowl Games - two losing records in successive seasons and twice losing to the Spartans. True enough, MSU isn't breathing down TSUN's neck - as far as surpassing them in football is concerned. To do that they'd have to be running backwards looking at erstwhile Big Brother behind them.
 
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Of Michigans' 25 class of 2010 current commits:

Tony Drake ........ 5-8/160/4.35
Courtney Avery .... 5-9/164/4.55
Terrence Talbott .. 5-9.5/172/4.53
Drew Dileo ........ 5-10/175/4.50
Ray Vinopal ....... 5-11/185/4.42
Jerald Robinson ... 6-0/175
Carvin Johnson .... 6-0/185
Austin White ...... 6-0/190/4.58

That's eight of 25, almost one third, of their class that's both 6'0" or shorter and 190 or lighter.

Conversely, of our 17 current class of 2010 commits:

Corey Brown .. 5-11/170/4.45
James Louis .. 5-11/180/4.45

Only two of 17, or less than an eighth, of our class that's both 6'0" or shorter and 190 or lighter.
 
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MililaniBuckeye;1644605; said:
I guess we could fill our class with a bunch of 5'8", 170lb low-end 4-stars to boost our rankings, but thankfully Tressel isn't...
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UM's class is better, but looking just at stars:

***** 01 UM, 01 MSU
..**** 06 UM, 05 MSU
....*** 16 UM, 11 MSU

That really should not happen. Here is what lloyd turned in:

stars.... 08, 07, 06, 05, 04

Lloyd

***** 01, 02, 05, 02, 01
..**** 11, 12, 05, 12, 09
....*** 03, 04, 07, 08, 12

Rich in 10, 09, 08 (2 months)

***** 01, 02, 00
..**** 06, 07, 04
....*** 16, 11, 06

Lloyd was not stellar, but filled his depth with more 4-stars on average. The one time he did not, he loaded up on 5-stars.


I counted Wilson & Weinke for Lloyd 08, and gave RR all post-Lloyd verbals, including Smith (where Lloyd did most of the work).
 
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MililaniBuckeye;1644620; said:
Of Michigans' 25 class of 2010 current commits:

Tony Drake ........ 5-8/160/4.35
Courtney Avery .... 5-9/164/4.55
Terrence Talbott .. 5-9.5/172/4.53
Drew Dileo ........ 5-10/175/4.50
Ray Vinopal ....... 5-11/185/4.42
Jerald Robinson ... 6-0/175
Carvin Johnson .... 6-0/185
Austin White ...... 6-0/190/4.58

That's eight of 25, almost one third, of their class that's both 6'0" or shorter and 190 or lighter.

Conversely, of our 17 current class of 2010 commits:

Corey Brown .. 5-11/170/4.45
James Louis .. 5-11/180/4.45

Only two of 17, or less than an eighth, of our class that's both 6'0" or shorter and 190 or lighter.
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I never said I liked our recruiting "strategy".
 
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goblue15;1644613; said:
Okay, let's just completely ignore the fact that MSU beat the 2 worst teams in Michigan football history. They have 2 wins against us the last 10 years, but sure I guess they are breathing down our necks.
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Exactly.

UM has fielded two of the worst teams in the history of your program over the last two seasons.

During those two seasons MSU beat you both times and appears to be out recruting you for local talent.

So yeah....you say UM is currently at the low point in your 100+ year history...and we say MSU is breathing down your neck.

I don't see the difference in those two statements....
 
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HINYG8;1644626; said:
Exactly.

UM has fielded two of the worst teams in the history of your program over the last two seasons.

During those two seasons MSU beat you both times and appears to be out recruting you for local talent.

So yeah....you say UM is currently at the low point in your 100+ year history...and we say MSU is breathing down your neck.

I don't see the difference in those two statements....
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I will continue to say their not.
 
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MililaniBuckeye;1644620; said:
Of Michigans' 25 class of 2010 current commits:

Tony Drake ........ 5-8/160/4.35
Courtney Avery .... 5-9/164/4.55
Terrence Talbott .. 5-9.5/172/4.53
Drew Dileo ........ 5-10/175/4.50
Ray Vinopal ....... 5-11/185/4.42
Jerald Robinson ... 6-0/175
Carvin Johnson .... 6-0/185
Austin White ...... 6-0/190/4.58

That's eight of 25, almost one third, of their class that's both 6'0" or shorter and 190 or lighter.

Conversely, of our 17 current class of 2010 commits:

Corey Brown .. 5-11/170/4.45
James Louis .. 5-11/180/4.45

Only two of 17, or less than an eighth, of our class that's both 6'0" or shorter and 190 or lighter.
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Not only that, but look at the offer lists for the Michigan commits:

Courtney Avery: Army, Bowling Green, Eastern Michigan, Indiana, Lousiville, Stanford, Toledo, Vanderbilt
Drew Dileo: Stanford, Tulane
Stephen Hopkins: Kansas, Kansas State, SMU, Stanford, Texas A+M
Cravin Johnson: Louisiana Tech, Minnesota, Northern Illinois, Tulane, Tulsa, Utah
Cornelius Jones: Duke, Stanford, Wake Forest
Antonio Kinard: none
Jordan Paskorz: Bowling Green, Minnesota, Pitt, Virginia
Jerald Robinson: none
Davion Rogers: Michigan State, West Virginia
Terrence Talbott: Cincinnati, UConn, Illinois, Kentucky, Marshall, Wisconsin
Terry Talbott: Arkansas, Cincinnati, UConn, Illinois, Kentucky, Michigan State, NC State, UCLA, Wisconsin
Ray Vinopal: Bowling Green, Kent State
D.J. Williamson: none

That's 13 kids - over half of Michigan's 25-man class - that does not have a single offer from an elite team. That's no offers from Ohio State, Penn State, Notre Dame, Florida, Florida State, Miami, Alabama, Auburn, LSU, Tennessee, Georgia, Texas, Oklahoma, Nebraska, or USC. Michigan is beating a bunch of nobodies for its recruits.

Of Michigan's 25-man class, only five have 4-star ratings from Rivals, and none has a 5-star rating. Of the 4-star guys, two - Ken Wilkins and Devin Gardner - did not receive offers from Ohio State; Gardner was widely reported to be an Ohio State "lean", and Wilkins's two favorites were Ohio State and Penn State (neither school offered). Although Cullen Christian supposedly had an offer from Ohio State, the Buckeye staff "slow played" him and canceled his official visit. Ohio State did not recruit Richard Ash, who allegedly has some academic issues. Of Michigan's top recruits, only Marvin Robinson had a legit offer from Ohio State.

Ohio State did not offer any of Michigan's 3-star (and lower) recruits except for punter Will Hagerup. That means that Ohio State passed on 19 of Michigan's 20 three-star (or lower) recruits. Of those 19 "passes", 9 were from the state of Ohio, which means that the Buckeye coaching staff had solid info on each recruit and still elected not to recruit them.

So two of Michigan's 25 commitments had a legit offer from Ohio State. How does Michigan plan to bring its program up to Ohio State's level when the coaching staff is recruiting kids who would be walk ons at Ohio State? It just doesn't make the slightest bit of sense to me. If RichRod can bring the Wolverine program back with that kind of talent (or lack thereof), then he truly deserves to wear his wizard's hat.
 
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TheIronColonel said:
And in doing so, completely ignore the fact that, right now, MSU is a better football team than UM, and has been for the past 2 years.

I suspect that one of us does not understand what "breathing down your neck" means.
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I agree with goblue15. With the records the last and the game scores the last 2 years. There is no possible way that MSU is breathing down scUM's neck. You all have it backwards. With the closer game and the 2 extra games it's clear scUM is breathing down MSU's neck.
 
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TheIronColonel;1644628; said:
And in doing so, completely ignore the fact that, right now, MSU is a better football team than UM, and has been for the past 2 years.
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I like MSU's coach a whole lot better, too.

t_BuckeyeScott;1644631; said:
There is no possible way that MSU is breathing down scUM's neck. You all have it backwards. With the closer game and the 2 extra games it's clear scUM is breathing down MSU's neck.
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I wouldn't exactly call it breathing...sounds more like a death-rattle to me.
 
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goblue15;1644627; said:
I will continue to say their not.
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And you will continue to fail at understanding basic common sense. :roll1:

It doesn't matter why MSU is closing ground on you in football, just the fact that they are. There's a reason why Michigan has fielded its worst two-year program in its history, and it's currently holding to position of head coach.
 
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