2009 tOSU Offense Discussion

[1926Buckeyes]

Nate, that reminds me of what someone I was having a conversation with about the '07 NC game loss against LSU. I told him that OSU's DL just wasn't deep enough or good enough to play with LSU's OL, and that played a big part in the the loss and the reason the D played so poorly. I was told that I was making excuses for OSU and that I was being ridiculous. Needless to say, I was confused.

 

[NateG]

Nate, that reminds me of what someone I was having a conversation with about the '07 NC game loss against LSU. I told him that OSU's DL just wasn't deep enough or good enough to play with LSU's OL, and that played a big part in the the loss and the reason the D played so poorly. I was told that I was making excuses for OSU and that I was being ridiculous. Needless to say, I was confused.

Yeah I don't try to act like I know everything. I have what I believe to be a larger knowledge of football and how to break it down. Everyone I knows comes to me and asks why certain things happen. When I watch games with people in or out of the shoe I can usually say what needs to happen or what I believe will happen and it happens like 80-90% of the time. On Sat, I told my friend that went with me that they needed to run the option pass because they were biting on Pryor pulling the ball down, then like 2 drives later they did it and got 25-30 yards across the middle. And Wisky pulls players to certain sides then run to that side on a overload until it's stopped then runs a reverse, counter or play action off it but our D line blew up the run, counter, and Play action so they ran the reverse 3-4 times on 2 drives. I actually have been asked to be on radio shows to talk sports and haven't reached a point where I could do it. Also most enjoy my input and understand what I am about so I'll deal with both sides of most issues, but yeah if it gets to a point where I feel like I'm banging my head against a wall I shy away from those people. I work to be rational and not just a homer but I understand how some can be and have expectations that aren't in view just yet. Yeah it would be great if our offense was further along than it is but it isn't there yet. Thanks for your input.

 

[crazybuckfan40]

So we now run a no TE 2-3 back set with 2 WRs???

No that is not what I said...You are seeing him lock in those guys a lot of time, because there are lots of times when we are only using 1 or 2 guys in routes. RB and TE blocking, with the backside guy just running the vision route...Thus the reason it seems he is locking on these guys. He doesn't have check down routes to TE's, RBs, he has 1-2 reads. Good or bad. There were multiple times Wisky guys were sittig on routes...

Who cares if they are good athletes. It matters if you know how to play football, not if you can run fast or jump high or whatever. That's like saying because Michael Jordan was a great athlete he should be good at football(he was in high school but that's neither here nor there) But they have some guys that will play on Sundays. I can't say "right now" that all of those players you mentioned will unfortunately.

Exaggerate Much! Our athletes are better than their's, the same athletes that were able to go toe to toe with USC. Not sure anyone would disagree with that. We saw Posey in a one on one situation make a play. We also saw the box stacked with 8 guys keying on the zone read play, so we were blocking with 6 guys on 8 guys. But the outside was wide open, Rbs would of been open out of the backfield, Te's would of been open.

My suggestion would be to call 97.1 on Thurs at 12 noon EST and recommend that to Tress if you feel the calls are bad. But then again, we don't watch 15-25 hours of film on a team and have a file of everytime that OSU has played them. So I will default to the fact that they know more than most on this forum about what a team is likely to do on defense and how to counter it.

Yes Tress knows more about football then I will know. Yes he knows more about Wisky and Ohio State than I know. Do I know that when you run a 4-4 stack that the areas that are vulnerable are over the top, on the outside. Do I know that they had two guys on the backside waiting on Pryor if he held onto the zone read. Do I know that our offense sucked on Saturday? yes. Do I think Tress and all his coaches are seeing this on film today. yes...They did make in game adjustments, Wisky did play a different scheme that they usually play.

Did you not read this?


I do not think by any stretch of the imagination that that the offense isn't doing anything wrong. But when I watch plays and say what happened, you and 2 or 3 others say "quit making excuses". ????? How is saying a guy missed a block or a guy dropped a pass making an excuse. It is what happened on the play where it failed. The point of attack is huge for running game followed by hitting the hole if that is a win. Passing is broken down into 3 phases, protection, good throw, then a good route/catch by a WR. If any of the parts mess up, it isnt an excuse it is where the play broke down. So I feel that I may have reached the point where I will completely have to stop responding to you and the 3 others on this subject and just review what I see for the other 50 that told me good review or writeup. Because if all you hear from me is"excuse,excuse,excuse" then I have no reason to discuss the offense and its pitfalls with you because that's not what I am doing.

Dude come on...Those are not the excuses you are making...

1. If the defense didn't score the offense isn't starting their drives at the 20. Those 2 drives would have been at the 50 and then the 7 going in. The momentum the team got off of that could have easily turned into 2 TD's ala Indiana. Pryor did not get a chance to build on the momentum he built in the 2 minute drill. He finally had gotten a chance to stop thinking and just "hurry up and play". Then went over 45 realtime minutes without getting back on the field. Then 3 plays and the quarter break. No one know what would have happened if he would have had a chance to build off his momentum, especially if Hines didn't score.

2. I thought of this in the stands today. Last year Pryor had help from someone named Wells that could carry a game for a struggling QB if necessary (scUM 07) and if need be open up passing routes. When this year started everyone on our schedule went from focusing on Wells (because of lack of knowledge on Pryor) or splitting focus with Wells to putting the ENTIRE focus of the defenses on Pryor. I never hear a pregame breakdown say anything to the degree of "You need to shut down the Buckeye running game". It's "You have to bottle up Pryor." The threat of a good running game can make even average QB's look good(ala Wisky). 62 yards rushing by running backs will not get it done(97 overall). Saine is a good hard running back and I'm pleased with his comeback to this point, but he is not a game changing back yet.

Here are 2. The offense is ok to struggle because they sat on the sidelines, or ok to struggle because they lost a guy to the NFL, how about the flu...What about the rain against Illinois when we were sticking it down their throat other then when we needed to put it in the endzone.

I appreciate the breakdowns, I appreciate the going back and saying so and so missed a block, that is coming with the goods, that is showing why we struggled. The excuses are frustrating, because they just didn't play well...Plain and simple they missed blocks, ran bad routes, etc.

The thing is I am not sitting here contending that we are good offense. We are not getting the job done...Whether it be scheme, youth, execution, talent we are not getting the job done on offense. Yes I agree with some of the reasons you are giving...

But my thing is that we have seen big plays, times when we look very good, and look close to busting out, but I rate this offense a C right now and would not feel comfortable if they had to drive the field and get us a score to win a game. Good thing for our defense and Speacial teams. If the offense could improve which I am hoping we see the next 3 weeks, we have the makings of an elite team.

I understand based on our defense that there are times when all we need is the FG...like the last scoring drive (FG) against Wisky when it put us up 3 scores...We didn't do this against Navy...I understand we don't play an open game like Texas, Oklahoma, etc. I am not looking for the best offense in the country. I just want an offense to take the field that I have some confidence in them to score a TD. Like everytime the defense takes the field I feel pretty comfortable in saying the other team is not going to score a TD.

 

[NateG]

No that is not what I said...You are seeing him lock in those guys a lot of time, because there are lots of times when we are only using 1 or 2 guys in routes. RB and TE blocking, with the backside guy just running the vision route...Thus the reason it seems he is locking on these guys. He doesn't have check down routes to TE's, RBs, he has 1-2 reads. Good or bad. There were multiple times Wisky guys were sittig on routes...



Exaggerate Much! Our athletes are better than their's, the same athletes that were able to go toe to toe with USC. Not sure anyone would disagree with that. We saw Posey in a one on one situation make a play. We also saw the box stacked with 8 guys keying on the zone read play, so we were blocking with 6 guys on 8 guys. But the outside was wide open, Rbs would of been open out of the backfield, Te's would of been open.



Yes Tress knows more about football then I will know. Yes he knows more about Wisky and Ohio State than I know. Do I know that when you run a 4-4 stack that the areas that are vulnerable are over the top, on the outside. Do I know that they had two guys on the backside waiting on Pryor if he held onto the zone read. Do I know that our offense sucked on Saturday? yes. Do I think Tress and all his coaches are seeing this on film today. yes...They did make in game adjustments, Wisky did play a different scheme that they usually play.




Dude come on...Those are not the excuses you are making...



Here are 2. The offense is ok to struggle because they sat on the sidelines, or ok to struggle because they lost a guy to the NFL, how about the flu...What about the rain against Illinois when we were sticking it down their throat other then when we needed to put it in the endzone.

I appreciate the breakdowns, I appreciate the going back and saying so and so missed a block, that is coming with the goods, that is showing why we struggled. The excuses are frustrating, because they just didn't play well...Plain and simple they missed blocks, ran bad routes, etc.

The thing is I am not sitting here contending that we are good offense. We are not getting the job done...Whether it be scheme, youth, execution, talent we are not getting the job done on offense. Yes I agree with some of the reasons you are giving...

But my thing is that we have seen big plays, times when we look very good, and look close to busting out, but I rate this offense a C right now and would not feel comfortable if they had to drive the field and get us a score to win a game. Good thing for our defense and Speacial teams. If the offense could improve which I am hoping we see the next 3 weeks, we have the makings of an elite team.

I understand based on our defense that there are times when all we need is the FG...like the last scoring drive (FG) against Wisky when it put us up 3 scores...We didn't do this against Navy...I understand we don't play an open game like Texas, Oklahoma, etc. I am not looking for the best offense in the country. I just want an offense to take the field that I have some confidence in them to score a TD. Like everytime the defense takes the field I feel pretty comfortable in saying the other team is not going to score a TD.

So your point is inconsistency (not getting it done sometimes but then showing signs of good play otherwise).... where would that come from?

 

[NightmaresDad]

Why don't we just take a knee on second down?

Or better yet - someone can hypnotize JT into thinking every play is first down.

We have been generally very good on first down and generally pathetic on second down this year.

 

[NateG]

Why don't we just take a knee on second down?

Or better yet - someone can hypnotize JT into thinking every play is first down.

We have been generally very good on first down and generally pathetic on second down this year.

We tend to get into 3rd and long(5 or more) alot(I wish I had the stats of percentage of 3rd downs over 5 yards) which doesn't lessen the pressure on Pryor. But I can agree more screens and swing routes could be good. The Draws need to slow down a bit.

 

[crazybuckfan40]

So your point is inconsistency (not getting it done sometimes but then showing signs of good play otherwise).... where would that come from?

Scheme, youth, execution, talent are reasons why an offense would struggle...

1. Scheme - Don't understand, put your guys in situations where they will succeed.

2. Youth - Understand, but defense not having trouble with youth...

3. Execution - Not being put in the best situations, still can't drop balls, miss blocks.

4. Talent - Can't tell me we don't have the talent.

Bottom line we are not getting it done and I don't know that anyone can put their finger on it. I think we are leaving easy yards out on the field based on scheme, don't think Pryor is being put in situations to really bust out....

 

[NateG]

Scheme, youth, execution, talent are reasons why an offense would struggle...

1. Scheme - Don't understand, put your guys in situations where they will succeed.

2. Youth - Understand, but defense not having trouble with youth...

3. Execution - Not being put in the best situations, still can't drop balls, miss blocks.

4. Talent - Can't tell me we don't have the talent.

Bottom line we are not getting it done and I don't know that anyone can put their finger on it. I think we are leaving easy yards out on the field based on scheme, don't think Pryor is being put in situations to really bust out....

1. That would only point to Tress.
2. Defensive Starters are all upperclassmen only 5 defensive underclassman with significant time(Williams, Goebel, Simon, Klein, Sweat). 3 Dline guys and 2 backers. Offense has 8 underclassmen(SO or Frosh..counting Carter) and one at the most important position. 5 Jr's Saine, Boren, Miller, Browning, Sanz. 2 Sr's Cordle and Ballard. Defense is not as young as people think, and not even close to the youth on O.
3. Not best situ's again is Tress.
4. Would mean it's on Tress if they aren't as good as they should be, right?

3 of 4 points are aimed at Tress or the coaches. So what should be done? You said earlier you didn't feel Tress should be let go.

And no I don't want Tress fired, that was the dumbest comment a couple pages back...

 

[Jaxbuck]

Yeah I don't try to act like I know everything. I have what I believe to be a larger knowledge of football and how to break it down.

Everyone I knows comes to me and asks why certain things happen. When I watch games with people in or out of the shoe I can usually say what needs to happen or what I believe will happen and it happens like 80-90% of the time.

Then quit your job, go to Vegas and get rich. You won't because once you have to call it well before hand and wins and once losses are counted in dollars and cents you'll find no one on this earth gets it right 80-90% of the time.

I actually have been asked to be on radio shows to talk sports and haven't reached a point where I could do it.

Local sports talk radio can be daunting.

Also most enjoy my input and understand what I am about so I'll deal with both sides of most issues, but yeah if it gets to a point where I feel like I'm banging my head against a wall I shy away from those people. I work to be rational and not just a homer but I understand how some can be and have expectations that aren't in view just yet. Yeah it would be great if our offense was further along than it is but it isn't there yet. Thanks for your input.

Both sides of the issue like the fact there is no problem and the reasons why there is no problem?

Sorry but I'm sick of seeing CB40 take shit from you over this. His point is valid, you just don't want to hear it.

 

[NateG]

Then quit your job, go to Vegas and get rich. You won't because once you have to call it well before hand and wins and once losses are counted in dollars and cents you'll find no one on this earth gets it right 80-90% of the time.



Local sports talk radio can be daunting.



Both sides of the issue like the fact there is no problem and the reasons why there is no problem?

Sorry but I'm sick of seeing CB40 take shit from you over this. His point is valid, you just don't want to hear it.

Well at least he said he agreed with my points. So I'll just stop talking... is that what you want? A solid poster to leave altogether?

 

[NateG]

Plus if you read... I have resorted to letting him explain himself fully. I bring my assumption and let him dispute me.

So your point is inconsistency (not getting it done sometimes but then showing signs of good play otherwise).... where would that come from?

3 of 4 points are aimed at Tress or the coaches. So what should be done? You said earlier you didn't feel Tress should be let go.

And thanks for directly coming after me when I have only talked football and not made wisecracks about CB40. Maybe I have misunderstood what he was saying but the only point I heard to start was..."We aren't getting it done".

So what does that mean? What should be done? When things don't work or someone's not getting it done you find the source of the problem and then go from there. And that is where we are.

I never try to be disrespectful or go after a person. I even have tried to back out of talking about it twice... then questions are asked. So you have helped me feel fully comfortable to stop talking about this topic and let everyone else that knows alot more than me review the game and put their points out there. Why should I waste my time if people are just going to turn around and bash me? Why should I watch everygame with a fine tooth comb 3-4 times and watch plays develop if people will eventually throw me under the bus. I spend enough time each week doing this to not deserve being bashed.

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

Honestly, do feel that this offense is prepared to "win" us a game when the defense struggles?

I didn't hear you complain when we put up 38 on Toledo, did I? Or when we put up 33 at Indiana? Or 30 against Illinois in a freakin' monsoon? I never implied the offense is totally alright, but rather there's more to what happened against Wisconsin that what the stats suggest. It took the offense (i.e., Pryor) a while to get warmed up, but when it (he) did, we scored on two consecutive long drives before JT shut the offense down to prevent mistakes from letting Wisconsin back in the game. You can wish for our offense to magically turn into a 50-point-per-game juggernaut, but it ain't gonna happen, even if/when Pryor reaches his full potential because Tressel will either shut down the offense once we get up big or send in the second- and third-stringers for game experience.

 

[NateG]

Then quit your job, go to Vegas and get rich. You won't because once you have to call it well before hand and wins and once losses are counted in dollars and cents you'll find no one on this earth gets it right 80-90% of the time.



Local sports talk radio can be daunting.



Both sides of the issue like the fact there is no problem and the reasons why there is no problem?

Just to reply exactly... I meant when they ask me I have enough football knowledge and study to know whats normal for most teams OSU plays.

2 I have 3 kids one on the way and I don't have time to host a freaking Sports Radio show right now.

And I never said there was nothing wrong with the offense.

 

[osugrad21]

CB40, I don't see the 44 stack as a huge change in scheme...pretty much 43 cover 3 with your SS walked up as strong side flats player. Doesn't change your point either way...the box is loaded with complete disregard for anything downfield.

Sorry but I'm sick of seeing CB40 take [censored] from you over this. His point is valid, you just don't want to hear it.

Sorry Jax...but the same can be said of your stance. You have been a hardcore critic of the offense and despite disagreeing often, you get the respect of a decent discussion.

Let's keep it that way and save the venom for the trolls.

 

[crazybuckfan40]

CB40, I don't see the 44 stack as a huge change in scheme...pretty much 43 cover 3 with your SS walked up as strong side flats player. Doesn't change your point either way...the box is loaded with complete disregard for anything downfield.

I guess it seemed different than a regular 4-4 because they were stacked about 8 yards back and outside, so they could fill the hole if Saine took the ball, or be on the outside if Pryor ran, and also took away all the 5 yard hitches, slants we try to run...The outside was open, and we didn't take advantage...but I think we agree here...

Sorry Jax...but the same can be said of your stance. You have been a hardcore critic of the offense and despite disagreeing often, you get the respect of a decent discussion.

Let's keep it that way and save the venom for the trolls.

I use to be the guy that argued with Jax, that made excuses for the offense, went back and watched tape, gave the reasons why our offense is ok like it was, that we had a good defense, etc. He is just sticking up because I finally saw his side...