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2009 Rivals/Scout/etc. National & Regional Rankings

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crazybuckfan40;1218829; said:
No way Murray is a top 5 player...Top 50...Yeah...Top 5 no way...
Click to expand...

Probably not but he is on fire lately...he has pretty much outperformed Barkley lately. Murray has more talent to throw to but right now you can't get much hotter than Murray imo. My top player in the country personally is Cierre Wood...
 
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I'd like to know why Kirkpatrick is getting all this hype while Barnett is not. I really have to believe it's because Barnett committed extremely early and he's from Ohio while Kirkpatrick is from the south, mostly considering warm weather schools, and is uncommitted. I know C.J. is a 4* on both sites but he just doesn't get talked about at all.
 
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Theres no money in talking about a committed kid. Heck if my wallet was on the line I would talk about kirkpatrick more as well. Ofcourse when the Buckeye faithful with premium grumble too much the national guys will move a couple of our guys up and lower one or two slightly...thats what they call compromise. thats the system...especially on scout. BSB has some serious clout because IIRC OSU and NC have the most members to their boards. If either school grumbles about their ranking you see a change as soon as they have a national update...NC in B-ball and OSU in football...now thats what I call great analysys by a bunch of "EXPERTS":roll2:
 
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OregonBuckeye;1218904; said:
I'd like to know why Kirkpatrick is getting all this hype while Barnett is not. I really have to believe it's because Barnett committed extremely early and he's from Ohio while Kirkpatrick is from the south, mostly considering warm weather schools, and is uncommitted. I know C.J. is a 4* on both sites but he just doesn't get talked about at all.
Click to expand...

I am with you on Barnett being a very good recruit...

But KirkPatrick is a stud...Also scouts have been able to see him more in person, tape, camps, etc...Barnett has not been to any of that stuff...

Also there Gabe Lynn and Darius Winston are big timers as well at CB...

The thing that I don't get is a guy like Bob L who is in this area, has guys like Givens and Brown ranked over him...Not knocking either one of those guys, I just don't understand that lack of talk from him...National scouts is understandable due to his lack of visibility...
 
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Latest consensus/composite list...

Added two sets of rankings: N2FL.com & Rise magazine.

Updated the Scout & Emfinger rankings.

Changed how I was tallying things a bit. Staying with the total points model but am also adding bonus points to each player ranked on a list. The bonus pts = 20% of the total number of entries on said list (so a top 100 list would give each entry 20 extra points).

This will help eliminate the flyers like Adam Morgan on one of the last lists. In effect someone ranked by multiple lists will accrue extra points which will help keep them ranked higher vs someone ranked extremely high on a single list but not ranked on any others.

The current sources used are:
Scout (300)
Emfinger (270 or so - Max has some duplicates I had to clean up)
Rivals (250)
N2FL (250)
FVS (100)
CSTV - Lemming Hodges (100)
Offense-Defense (100)
PrepStar (100)
Rise (25)

ESPN is supposed to release their list on Monday, FVS is supposed to release a 250 list at some point & Rise is supposed to release a full 100. I'll add them as they come out.

The list:

1 Matt Barkley QB 6'3” 226 USC
2 Devon Kennard DE 6'3” 257
3 Manti Te'o LB 6'2” 230
4 Jamarkus McFarland DT 6'3” 280
5 Russell Shepard QB 6'1” 179 LSU
6 Bryce Brown RB 6'0” 215 Miami
7 Reuben Randle WR 6'3” 195
8 Jaccobi McDaniel DT 6'0” 267 FSU
9 Dorian Bell LB 6'0” 226 Ohio State
10 Cierre Wood RB 6'0” 192 Notre Dame
11 Garrett Gilbert QB 6'3” 186 Texas
12 Dre Kirkpatrick CB 6'2” 180
13 Chris Davenport DT 6'4” 318 LSU
14 Craig Loston S 6'2” 193 Clemson
15 William Campbell DT 6'5” 317 TSUN
16 Marlon Brown WR 6'5” 205
17 Xavier Nixon OL 6'6” 263
18 Vontaze Burfict LB 6'2” 244 USC
19 Randall Carroll WR 5'10” 175 USC
20 Jelani Jenkins LB 6'1” 212
21 Gabe Lynn CB 6'0” 185
22 Johnny Simon DL 6'3” 274 Ohio State
23 Lamar Miller RB 5'11” 205
24 Darius Winston CB 6'0” 180
25 Mason Walters OL 6'6” 290 Texas
26 Shaquelle Evans WR 6'0” 203
27 Patrick Hall Ath 6'1” 181 USC
28 Donte Moss DE 6'4” 235 North Carolina
29 Jarvis Jones LB 6'3” 205
30 Tana Patrick LB 6'3” 215
31 Nico Johnson LB 6'3” 226
32 Devonte Holloman S 6'2” 214 Clemson
33 Logan Heastie WR 6'2” 225 WVU
34 Marcus Hall OL 6'5” 290
35 Aaron Murray QB 6'0” 198 Georgia
36 Chris Whaley RB 6'3” 220 Texas
37 Craig Drummond DE 6'5” 260
38 Jaamal Berry RB 5'10” 185
39 Morgan Moses OT 6'7” 347
40 Andre Debose WR 6'0” 170
41 Je'Ron Stokes WR 6'1” 178 Tennessee
42 Corey Adams DT 6'3” 277
43 Melvin Fellows DE 6'5” 245 Ohio State
44 Kevin Newsome QB 6'3” 217 TSUN (Soft)
45 Eric Shrive OL 6'7” 285 Penn State
46 Alex Okafor DE 6'4” 232 Texas
47 Willie Downs WR 6'2” 192 FSU
48 David Oku RB 5'10” 186
49 John Martinez OG 6'4” 265
50 D.J. Fluker DT 6'7” 325 Alabama
51 Kevin Graf OT 6'6” 301 USC
52 Sam Montgomery DE 6'4” 230
53 Kevin Brent S 5'11” 196
54 Dexter Pratt RB 6'2” 227 LSU
55 Trent Richardson RB 5'11” 210 Alabama
56 Logan Thomas Ath 6'6” 233
57 Nick Alajajian OL 6'4” 280 Florida
58 Tom Savage QB 6'4” 217 Rutgers
59 Tyrik Rollison QB 6'2' 186
60 Cliff Harris CB 6'0” 165
61 Branden Smith CB 5'11” 171
62 Ronnie Wingo Jr. Ath 6'3” 212
63 Jheranie Boyd WR 6'2” 184
64 Eddie Lacy RB 5'11” 200
65 Chris Watt OL 6'3” 280
66 Nick Kasa DE 6'7” 245
67 Rolando Jefferson WR 6'2” 190
68 Jamie Wood DB 6'2” 190 Ohio State
69 Michael Philipp OT 6'3” 320
70 Morrell Presley TE 6'4” 215 USC
71 Kendall Kelly WR 6'4” 210
72 Edwin Baker RB 5'10” 204 MSU
73 Michael Ford RB 5'10” 200 LSU
74 Christine Michael RB 5'11” 195
75 Frankie Telfort LB 5'11” 205
76 Kraig Appleton WR 6'3” 190
77 Orson Charles TE 6'2” 216
78 Damario Jeffery Ath 6'3” 215
79 Thomas Ashcraft OL 6'5” 275 Texas
80 Brandon McGee CB 5'11” 186
81 Chris Bonds DT 6'4” 262
82 Gary Brown DT 6'3” 275 Florida
83 Ray Ray Armstrong Ath 6'4” 218
84 C.J. Barnett CB 6'1” 181 Ohio State
85 Marcus Davis CB 6'0” 193 Texas
86 Anthony LaLota Ath 6'6” 260
87 Justin Chaisson DE 6'5” 265 Oklahoma
88 Xavier Su'a Filo OT 6'4” 285
89 Washaun Ealey RB 5'11” 205 Georgia
90 Ronnell Lewis LB 6'3” 220 Oklahoma
91 Eugene Smith QB 6'3” 182
92 Donavan Tate Ath 6'2” 195
93 A.J. McCarron QB 6'3.5” 180 Alabama
94 Malliciah Goodman DE 6'4” 255 Clemson
95 Cody Green QB 6'4” 220
96 Ryne Giddins DE 6'4” 235
97 Abry Jones DT 6'3” 250 Georgia
98 Chris Burnette OL 6'2” 300 Georgia
99 Marquis Simmons LB 6'0.5” 220 USC
100 T.J. McDonald S 6'2” 182 USC
101 Janzen Jackson CB 6'0” 174 LSU
102 Bryce McNeal WR 6'2” 170 TSUN
103 Justin “J.T.” Turner DB 6'2” 186 TSUN
104 Sheldon Richardson OL 6'4” 281 Missouri
105 Lonnie Pryor RB 6'0” 195 Florida State
106 Chad Bumphis WR 5'10” 180
107 Tajh Boyd QB 6'0” 208 WVU
108 Deandre Coleman DT 6'4” 295
109 Patrick Patterson WR 6'3” 215
110 Fletcher Cox DE 6'4” 240 Mississippi State
111 Tom Wort LB 6'1” 210 Oklahoma
112 Corey Brown Ath 6'0” 180 Ohio State
113 Mike Brockers DE 6'6” 255 LSU
114 Chris Norman LB 6'2” 207 MSU
115 Darrell Givens CB 6'0' 170 Penn State
116 Tate Forcier QB 6'1” 190
117 Chris Fields WR 6'0” 181 Ohio State
118 Eric Fields LB 6'1” 200 Clemson
119 Jordan Whiting LB 6'0” 230 Ohio State
120 Nathan Scheelhaase QB 6'2” 190 Illinois
121 Garrett Porter OL 6'6” 308 Texas
122 Zach Mettenberger QB 6'4” 229 Georgia
123 Desmond Scott RB 5'9” 185 Duke
124 Barkevious Mingo LB 6'5” 210
125 Kendrick Hardy RB 6'0” 210
126 Jawanza Starling S 6'2” 190
127 Josh Boyd DT 6'3” 275 Mississippi State
128 Olivier Vernon DE 6'2” 237 Miami
129 Marlon Pollard DB 6'1” 160 UCLA
130 Jon Bostic LB 6'1” 218
131 Ryan Mossakowski QB 6'4” 201
132 Austin Long OT 6'5” 268 Georgia
133 Theo Riddick RB 5'10” 185 Notre Dame
134 Calvin Howell DT 6'4” 280 Texas
135 Michael Carter CB 5'11” 165
136 Nu'keese Richardson WR 5'9” 165 Florida
137 Morgan Newton QB 6'4” 205
138 Levine Toilolo TE 6'8” 239 Stanford
139 Stephon Gilmore DB 6'1” 180
140 Demonte McAllister DE 6'3” 245
141 Justin Green DB 5'10” 180 Ohio State
142 Alshon Jeffrey WR 6'4” 200 USC
143 Knile Davis RB 6'1” 210
144 Allan Bridgford QB 6'4.5” 215 Cal
145 Shayne Skov LB 6'2” 225 Stanford
146 Antwan Lowery DT 6'3” 300
147 David Wilson Ath 5'9” 192
148 Tyler Stockton DT 6'1” 290 Notre Dame
149 Pete White OG 6'4” 340
150 Brennan Williams OL 6'6” 260
151 Montrell Conner RB 6'2” 210
152 C.J. Mizell LB 6'2” 212 FSU
153 Richard Brehaut QB 6'2” 220 UCLA
154 De'Von Flournoy WR 6'2” 180 USC
155 Josh Nunes QB 6'4” 205 Tennessee
156 Chris Thompson RB 5'7” 178 FSU
157 Justin Brown WR 6'3.5” 210
158 Craig Roh DE 6'5” 230
159 Keenan Davis WR 6'3” 195
160 Brandon Wegher Ath 5'11” 187
161 Dyron Dye DE 6'5” 225
162 Lendell Buckner DT 6'3” 325 Illinois
163 Greg Timmons WR 6'3” 185 Texas
164 Darrington Sentimore DT 6'2” 265
165 Jemari Roberts WR 6'3” 200
166 Shavodrick Beaver QB 6'2” 179 TSUN
167 J.K. Jay OT 6'7” 275 Clemson
168 Kevin Minter LB 6'1” 240 LSU
169 Stan Hasiak OT 6'6” 340
170 Jeremy Smith RB 5'10” 206 Oklahoma State
171 Storm Klein LB 6'3” 220 Ohio State
172 Tariq Allen LB 6'2” 231 Texas
173 Tavon Austin RB 5'9” 156
174 Charles Siddoway OT 6'7” 310
175 Moses Alipate QB 6'6” 210 Minnesota
176 David Barrent OL 6'8” 290 MSU
177 Jordan Kohout DT 6'4” 265 Wisconsin
178 Larry Caper RB 5'10” 216 MSU
179 Todd Golper LB 6'1” 225 UCLA
180 Byron Moore Ath 6'1” 200 UCLA
181 Arthur Fontaine TE 6'5” 235
182 Todd Thomas WR 6'2” 202
183 Travis Hawkins CB 5'10” 181
184 Craig Bills S 6'2” 210 BYU
185 Greg Reid CB 5'8” 168 Florida
186 Stavion Lowe OL 6'5” 294 LSU
187 Jarvis Giles RB 6'0” 180 Tennessee
188 Tevin McCaskill S 6'2” 179
189 Darren Myles DB 6'0” 175
190 Daytawion Lowe S 6'1” 180
191 Brandon Webb OL 6'4” 320 Oklahoma State
192 Jamil Merrell LB 6'4” 210
193 Jerod Askew LB 6'1” 230
194 Justin Dixon LB 6'0” 228 North Carolina
195 Colby Berna OG 6'3” 275 Arkansas
196 Gerald Hodges LB 6'3” 211 Rutgers
197 Steve Williams CB 5'9” 165 Oklahoma
198 Drayton Calhoun CB 6'0” 175 LSU
199 Johnnie Farms OG 6'2” 280
200 Aaron Hayward RB 6'0.5” 194 Rutgers
201 Dion Sims TE 6'5” 235
202 Jajuan Harley S 6'0” 193 Florida
203 Corey Linsley OG 6'4” 285 Ohio State
204 Montez Robinson DE 6'4” 230
205 Alex Bullard OL 6'3” 275 Notre Dame
206 Eric Gordon DB 5'10” 187
207 Jacob Karam QB 6'2” 201 Texas Tech
208 Chris Metcalf DB 6'2” 183 USC
209 Petey Smith LB 6'0.5” 248
210 Brandon Jenkins DE 6'2” 218 FSU
211 Jams Boyd DE 6'4” 211 USC
212 Jonathan Davis LB 5'7” 186
213 Keenan Graham DE 6'3” 220
214 Stephen Barrera DT 6'5” 260 Texas
215 Joshua Adams WR 6'4” 200 North Carolina
216 Damien Thigpen DB 5'9” 170 Tennessee
217 Jared McAdoo DT 6'2” 285 North Carolina
218 Chris Williams LB 6'0” 230
219 Stepfan Taylor RB 6'0” 205
220 Kenny Bell WR 6'1” 160
221 A.J. Dugat S 6'1” 205 TCU
222 James Jackson WR 6'0” 175 Ohio State
223 Jamal Patterson WR 6'2” 203
224 Brandal Jackson Ath 6'2” 180 Texas A&M
225 Kenny Vaccaro CB 6'1” 190 Texas
226 Rodney Smith WR 6'4” 201
227 Terdema Ussery WR 6'4.5” 192
228 William Ming DE 6'4” 250 Alabama
229 Terry Hawthorne WR 6'0” 168 Illinois
230 Rhontae Scales OT 6'5” 285 Texas
231 Latu Heimuli DT 6'4” 305
232 Jack Mewhort OT 6'6” 293 Ohio State
233 Dan Mason LB 6'0” 220
234 Drew Allen QB 6'5” 198
235 Eryon Barnett S 6'3” 180 Texas
236 Chris Freeman OT 6'7” 325
237 Jeremy Gallon Ath 5'8” 165
238 Rod Woodson S 5'11” 205 Alabama
239 Prince Kent Ath 6'3” 195
240 Emory Blake WR 6'1” 194
241 Clayton Moore QB 6'1” 210
242 Chris Faulk OL 6'6” 280 LSU
243 Terry Shankle CB 5'11” 170
244 De'Antwan Williams RB 5'6” 185
245 Carlos Hyde RB 6'0” 225 Ohio State
246 Sean Stanley DE 6'2” 250 Penn State
247 Boseko Lokombo LB 6'3” 220
248 Blaine Dalton QB 6'1.5” 190 Missouri
249 Bud Golden RB 6'0' 191
250 Michael Bowman WR 6'4” 206


Buckeyes:
9 Dorian Bell
22 Johnny Simon
43 Melvin Fellows
68 Jamie Wood
84 C.J. Barnett
112 Corey Brown
117 Chris Fields
119 Jordan Whiting
141 Justin Green
171 Storm Klein
203 Corey Linsley
222 James Jackson
232 Jack Mewhort
245 Carlos Hyde

363 Duron Carter
394 Dominic Clark
421 Bradley McDougald

Targets:
16 Marlon Brown
34 Marcus Hall
38 Jaamal Berry
42 Corey Adams
49 John Martinez
75 Frankie Telfort
201 Dion Sims


TSUN:
15 William Campbell
44 Kevin Newsome
102 Bryce McNeal
103 Justin “J.T.” Turner
166 Shavodrick Beaver

261 Patrick Ward OL 6'6” 295
402 Michael Schofield OL 6'6” 272


Penn State:
45 Eric Shrive
115 Darrell Givens
246 Sean Stanley

285 Mark Arcidiacono OG 6'4” 295
340 Nate Cadogan OL 6'6” 250
406 Frank Figueroa OC 6'4” 275
429 Curtis Dukes RB 6'2” 235

MSU:
114 Chris Norman
176 David Barrent
178 Larry Caper

457 Andrew Maxwell QB 6'3” 192
474 Blake Treadwell OL 6'2” 270

Illinois:
120 Nathan Scheelhaase
162 Lendell Buckner
229 Terry Hawthorne

265 Leon Hill OL 6'4” 320
446 Andrew Carter OT 6'5” 265


Minnesota:
175 Moses Alipate

445 Hasan Lipscomb RB 5'10” 201

Wisconsin:
177 Jordan Kohout

Northwestern:
374 Evan Watkins QB 6'6” 230

Ohio:
236 Chris Freeman
249 Bud Golden
304 Cornelius “Tank” Carradine

For those interested the raw data can be found HERE.

:oh:
 
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GREAT post...thanks for all the hard work.

Will be unfortunate to see guys like Fields, Whiting and Klein drop like a rock when the ESPN rankings come out, though. I'm very interested to see how they treat not just the Ohio State kids...but just Ohio kids in general, especially in comparison to how rivals and scout have them ranked.
 
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B-town Buckeye;1221441; said:
Will be unfortunate to see guys like Fields, Whiting and Klein drop like a rock when the ESPN rankings come out, though. I'm very interested to see how they treat not just the Ohio State kids...but just Ohio kids in general, especially in comparison to how rivals and scout have them ranked.
Click to expand...

FWIW if Rivals dropped every recruit committed to the Buckeyes completely off their list, it would look like this :

22 Dorian Bell (-13)
49 Johnny Simon (-27)
80 Melvin Fellows (-37)
104 Jamie Wood (-36)
121 C.J. Barnett (-37)
155 Chris Fields (-38)
156 Corey Brown (-44)
167 Jordan Whiting (-48)
203 Justin Green (-62)
207 Storm Klein (-36)
242 Corey Linsley (-39)
243 Carlos Hyde (-2)
253 Jack Mewhort (-23)
259 James Jackson (-37)
363 Duron Carter (0)
394 Dominic Clark (0)

(using Rivals as an example as they have been pretty "Buckeye friendly" in the rankings so far)

Even if ESPN does not rank a single Buckeye recruit the collective fall would be less than the above example. So no matter what ESPN does the Buckeyes will still have 4-6 kids in the Top 100 & 14 or so in the Top 250.

That was a primary motivator for me to come up with the composite list to help minimize the effects of any single rankings list. If you'll go back over the history of the updates I've posted you'll see as more sources are added the positions start to stabilize with less upward/downward movement caused by the addition of each new list.

I'm not really worried about ESPN.

I'm actually more interested to see how the Rivals moves the committed Buckeyes in their next update. I'm betting we'll see a lot of downward movement just because of the nature of the business. Camps are over and the season hasn't started so the moves are going to be based on things other than empirical evidence and that always seems to favor the non-commited kids IMO.

(BTW the above example is one of the fun things about the list, it lets you play with 'what if' scenarios. :biggrin: )


---To be honest though, is anyone really worried if Storm is ranked 200th instead of 150th? Placing too much stock in the exact positioning is just silly.

Chris Fields currently is 117th while Jordan Whiting is 119th. Is Chris a better player than Jordan? There's no real way to determine that to such a degree of accuracy...and that's not even counting trying to rate kids from different positions against one another. Trying to break down rankings to that level of granularity is an exercise in futility (it's still fun! lol Just don't take it too seriously).

That why IMO the general idea behind the star rankings is actually a bit more effective.

There's usually 5-20 kids at the top of the list who really stand out as being head and shoulders above the rest. Then the next group of 75-100 or so who are extremely high talents just not quite the next Vince Young or Orlando Pace. After that are a couple of hundred kids who are highly likely to be stars at the collegiate level. Then the big mob of 500 - 1,000 who are great HS players but may be a step too slow or better athletes than football players etc etc. Kids who still have plenty of potential...and so on and so on...

Focusing on those types of groupings gives a better idea than arguing over whether one kid is better than another because he slipped into the Top 100 at #99 while the other one is a scrub because he's #104.
 
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Speaking of ESPN, I was looking at their 150 watch list. There are 16 Buckeyes listed right now:

Dorian Bell
C.J. Barnett
Jamie Wood
Melvin Fellows
Jack Mewhort
Duron Carter
John Simon
Justin Green
Corey Linsley
James Jackson
Carlos Hyde
Corey Brown
Adam Bellamy
Sam Longo
Jordan Hall
Adam Homan

Three of them (Fellows, Mewhort & Carter) are scheduled to play in the ESPN/Under Armour game. If I were a betting man I'd probably put money that those three at least will make it onto the Top 150 list when it's announced.

I'll also guess that 3-5 other players make the list. Probably Bell, Wood, Simon, Wood & Barnett or Brown.
 
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ESPN - Two QBs, Shepard top ESPNU 150 - Football Recruiting

OSU has 6 players in the first ESPNU 150.

Of note:

#11 Jaamal Berry
#16 Dorian Bell
#17 Marlon Brown
#21 Shaquelle Evans
#30 Andre Debose
#39 Frankie Telfort
#51 Corey Adams
#60 Brandon McGee
#73 C.J. Barnett
#78 Marcus Hall
#85 Stephon Gilmore
#93 Jamie Wood (with UM commit Isaiah Bell two spots ahead of him)
#107 Melvin Fellows
#122 Jack Mewhort
#131 E.J. Banks
#150 Duron Carter

The ESPNU 150

Discuss...
 
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complete joke...but given the bias in their past rankings and their comments about the OSU commits leading up to this release...none of this is unexpected.


and 16 Georgia kids and 10 South Carolina kids to only 6 Ohio kids...please
 
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looking at their Ohio rankings...it makes you wonder if JT knows what the hell he's doing :wink2:

Barnett
Hall
Bell
Wood
Fellows
Mewhort
Simon
Turner
Carradine
Hunter
Linsley
Marrow
Blaine Burgess - FB
Luke Kuechly
Touissaint
Skyler Roberts - K
Vince Penza - K
Korbin Smith - K
Mason
Alex Bobel
Golden
Studlein
Jonathan Simmons - K
Terence Davis
Joe Coyne
Bellamy
Longo
Homan
Jacob Green
Chris Williams
Patrick Hinkel
Denicos Allen
Fields
Klein
Mike Edwards
McDougald
Freeman
Brian Slack
 
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