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2009 Purdue game thoughts

LordJeffBuck

Illuminatus Emeritus
Staff member
BP Recruiting Team
1. Yesterday's loss might have been the Buckeyes' worst ever. I know that that sounds like hyperbole, but some loss has to be the worst, so why not this one? I mean, when has a 5-1 Ohio State team ranked in the top ten ever lost to a 1-5 team whose only win was over a MAC squad? Hell, when has any Buckeye team lost to any 1-5 team? Probably never....

Some previous benchmark upsets are listed below:
10-10-1987: Indiana 31, Ohio State 10

If you play the free association game with a Buckeye fan and say "bad loss", the response will likely be "Indiana". Granted, Indiana hadn't beaten Ohio State since 1951 and they were in the midst of an 0-30-1 streak of futility against the Buckeyes, but in 1987 the Hoosiers were actually a good team. Indiana entered the game with a 3-1 record and finished the season at 8-4, while the Buckeyes fell apart after that contest and ended the campaign with a 6-4-1 mark. That Indiana loss was the beginning of the end for Buckeye head coach Earle Bruce, and he was fired later that year.

11-07-1998: Michigan State 28, Ohio State 24

The Buckeyes entered that game as clearly the best team in the nation, and they were a four-touchdown favorite over the Spartans. Although Ohio State's collapse was one of the most maddening displays of Buckeye football ever and probably cost them a national championship, the Spartans were at least a respectable team that year. Michigan State entered the game with a 4-4 record and already owned a win over a solid (9-3) Notre Dame squad. That 1998 game was just a rare case of the Buckeyes being Sparty.

11-09-1974: Michigan State 16, Ohio State 13

Old timers will also cite that game as one of the Buckeyes' worst losses ever. While Ohio State certainly had a national championship caliber team back in 1974, Michigan State was no slouch, as the Spartans finished the season with a 7-3-1 record. Although the Buckeyes lost the game, the Spartans offense essentially consisted of a pair of fluke plays late in the fourth quarter: a 44-yard touchdown pass to Mike Jones and an 88-yard touchdown run by Levi Jackson. And the game ended with some controversy, as the Buckeyes appeared to have scored a last-second touchdown to eke out the win, but the officials claimed that time had expired prior to the snap.

11-20-1993: Michigan 28, Ohio State 0
11-25-1995: Michigan 31, Ohio State 23
11-23-1996: Michigan 13, Ohio State 9

Those were all tough losses, and each of them cost the Buckeyes a shot at a national championship. However, the Wolverines were still a good team despite being the underdogs, and they finished 8-4, 9-4, and 8-4, respectively.

01-08-2007: Florida 41, Ohio State 14
01-07-2008: Louisiana State 38, Ohio State 24

Okay, Ohio State entered each game as the #1 team in the country, so technically each loss was an upset. Although the blow outs were ugly, it's difficult in retrospect to claim that the Buckeyes were really the better team.​
I'm sure that there are more candidates for "worst loss ever", but for now, I'll stick with 2009 Purdue.

2. The Buckeye offense is an easy target, but why exactly does the offense underperform? I'm not going to analyze any individual players or units, or formations or play calls (I'll leave those tasks to to others), but I will offer up some general thoughts.
a. Jim Tressel has never developed a ball control offense that is based on the pass. Back in the 1970's and early 1980's, the Pittsburgh Steelers, the Oakland Raiders, and the Miami Dolphins won eight Super Bowls with offensive systems that were based on the power running game and deep vertical passing game. Then in 1981, the San Francisco 49'ers under Bill Walsh changed the way that offensive football was played. Although the formations remained essentially the same - two backs, two wide outs, one tight end - the modes of attack were different. Instead of attacking the middle of the defense with the running backs and the edges with the wide outs, Walsh reversed things by using the backs on the outside (often on short passing routes) and crossing the receivers over the middle. In addition, Walsh used the pass to spread the defense and set up the run - when the linebackers and safeties cheated back to stop the pass, then the Niners would attack with running plays. Finally, Walsh relied on a mobile quarterback whose movement in the pocket would cause the defense to flow to a certain side, thereby setting up reverse or counter action to the other side of the field, often involving the tight end. Walsh's "West Coast" offense earned the 49'ers five Super Bowl titles in fourteen years and put Joe Montana and Steve Young (not to mention Walsh himself) into the Pro Football Hall of Fame. Although some teams still continued to have success with the power running attack (the mid 80's Giants and Bears, as well as some recent incarnations of the Baltimore Ravens), most NFL teams now employ at least some elements of the West Coast offense.

Like the West Coast offense, many college "spread" offenses are designed to control the game with the short, quick passing attack. Purdue used the scheme to perfection yesterday, as Joey Elliot was 31 for 50 for 281 yards and 2 touchdowns while controlling the clock for over 36 minutes. Jim Tressel has not been able to implement a similar offense at Ohio State despite having the requisite ingredients - a mobile quarterback, big wide receivers who can attack the middle of the field (Posey and Carter), and quick backs (Saine, Thomas, Hall) who can attack the edges.

b. Ohio State does not attack the middle of the field with the passing game. This is a corollary to (a), above. For some reason, the Buckeye brain trust is in love with deep outs and fly patterns, and they tend to ignore the middle of the field. There are at least six problems with this philosophy: (1) those routes take a long time to develop, (2) it is more difficult for a quarterback to make long "out" and "fly" throws than shorter slants and crossing patterns, especially when the QB is on the move or under duress (see Pryor's second interception), (3) it is more difficult for a quarterback to "check down" from receivers on one side of the field to receivers on the opposite side, as opposed to receivers in the middle of the field or short zones, (4) two receivers often end up in the same deep zone (which wouldn't be so bad if the Buckeyes ever ran receivers into the vacated short zones), (5) it is more difficult for the deep receivers to come back to the ball to help out a scrambling QB (see Pryor's first interception), and (6) safeties can cheat up in run support (or blitzes) when they know that they don't have to worry about passes over the middle.

The essense of a controlled passing offense is to attack the middle in an attempt to get mismatches with WR's on LB's and safeties, or to find a TE or RB on delays in a "cleared" short zone. The Buckeyes do not use this form of attack, preferring to hit big plays on the outside while keeping backs and TE's in to "max protect".

c. The Buckeyes do not use their offense to attack the opposing defense. The way to beat the Buckeyes is send the house and make Pryor beat you. As mentioned above, this philosophy works because the Buckeyes do not put pressure on the defense. Whether he is running a power-I or a spread, Jim Tressel's modus operandi seems to be (1) get a numerical advantage, and (2) have our superior athletes beat their guys in one-on-one match-ups, so that (3) we can hit a "home run" play. Hence, the reliance on power running (more hats in the hole) and vertical passing (max protect and our WR beats their CB). While this general theme has had plenty of success, it is a risky proposition against teams that have equal (or better) athletes (USC, Florida, LSU), or teams that are simply willing to sell out every play because they have no other hope for success (Purdue). In such games, the Buckeyes have to adjust their overriding philosophy (and not just their plays and formations) to attack the defense with a schematic advantage (no Charlie Weis jokes, please). Roll Pryor on first down, release TE's against blitzes, use reverse and counter action to freeze linebackers and defenseive ends, try a few quick slants, employ a hurry-up offense from time to time. When the defense stops cheating, then you can settle into your game plan.

d. Jim Tressel fails to take advantage of momentum swings. This happened several times against USC, and at least twice yesterday. First, after Purdue's fumble (you know, the one that actually counted), Ohio State took over at the Boilermakers' 44-yard line. With a 7-3 lead already in hand after a quick and efficient touchdown drive, the Buckeyes had a chance to drive the stake into Purdue's heart early in the first quarter. Instead of attacking the Purdue defense right away with maybe a play action or a reverse or a "drag" pass to a TE, the Buckeyes ran the ball into the pile for a two-yard loss ... and then they committed an illegal block on the very next play to set up 2nd-and-22. Momentum killed, drive over, punt. The next time it happened was early in the fourth quarter after a pair of passes to Ray Small for 47 yards and Pryor's 35-yard run down to the 3-yard line. At that point, Purdue's defense was on their heels, and the Buckeyes had all of the "mo". Instead of immediately attacking the defense schematically, the Buckeyes tried to "out athlete" the Boilermakers with an option play against a goal-line defense. One yard. Next, they tried a pass to Ballard that fell incomplete, but on third down they reverted to the run. No gain. Field goal. Momentum killed. And they wasted two minutes in the process of gaining one yard and three points. Game over.​

3. I know that the general consensus is that "Ohio State's offense sucks!" ... but did anyone notice that the defense gave up 26 points and made Joey Elliot look like Billy Burke? I know that the offense didn't exactly make things easy on the defense with five turnovers and a general lack of aptitude, but the Purdue offense didn't seem to have any real problem completing passes, gaining yards, eating clock, and ultimately scoring points.

4. A brief note about the officiating. Ohio State was victimized by two of the worst calls that I have ever seen - the non-fumble deep in Purdue territory, and the phantom hold on Browning during an erstwhile touchdown run. Those two calls cost the Buckeyes at least seven points (and probably ten or fourteen). Still, the opponent was Purdue (and a 1-5 Purdue at that), so the Buckeyes should have been able to overcome the screw jobs.
 
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That non fumble was ridiculous. Simply ridiculous. The only call I can think which rivaled it was in the 1994 Washington game when a punted ball hit 2 yards deep in the EZ, bounced out to the 1, and they called it Ohio States ball at the 1.

I thought the call on Browning wasn't that bad. It looked like a block in the back to me, and it did spring Saine.
 
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LordJeffBuck;1570798; said:
Like the West Coast offense, many college "spread" offenses are designed to control the game with the short, quick passing attack. ... Jim Tressel has not been able to implement a similar offense at Ohio State despite having the requisite ingredients - a mobile quarterback, big wide receivers who can attack the middle of the field (Posey and Carter), and quick backs (Saine, Thomas, Hall) who can attack the edges.
The irony is that we actually implemented this kind of attack on the blitzkrieg drive that led to our second TD. Given the success we've had with it on several occasions this season, I'm led to wonder why we don't use it regularly.
 
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I take your point on the defense, LJB, but let's remember the punishment they took the prior week. They were on the field the entire game against a very physical side. And some were still getting over the flu. I just think that they had nothing left at all after being hung out to dry again by the offense.
 
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Buckeyeskickbuttocks;1570811; said:
That non fumble was ridiculous. Simply ridiculous.
Agree completely, looking back on this game that will be one of the big things that stand out to me about it. I'm curious as to how the hell you can say that the play was over and forward progress was stopped if no whistles were blown. Can't say for sure our offense would have done anything with the ball but that play kept purdue in it early.
 
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I have a tough time placing blame on the defense. I looked up the play by play and I wanted to throw up.

The buckeye offense did not have a drive longer than 5 plays until the latter part of the 3rd quarter. Additionally, 6 of the points were a result the offense turning the ball over deep in their own end.

I think they should have been more aggressive in the 2nd half with bringing pressure but the defense did its job over all.

The biggest frustration I have is that the offense seems to be devoid of any core philosophy. Brandon Saine is averaging 5 yards a pop yet he only had 7 carries for the game as your only tailback used. I mean how does that happen????

I would like to see a guy with a proven track record who is a creative offensive coach either consult with OSU or be hired to be a real OC. After 9 seasons outside Troy's senior year, the OSU offense has been... well, offensive
 
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The problem with the defense for me is the offense. When the offense fails to have any meaningful (i.e. over 3-5 plays) drives it puts tremendous pressure on the defense. Add in a ridiculous number of turnovers and you have a defense that lacks field position and is gasping for breath.

Purdue and Wisconsin held the ball for over 78 of the 120 minutes in the last two games. There is no ball control currently with the Ohio State offense.
 
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LordJeffBuck;1570798; said:
1. Yesterday's loss might have been the Buckeyes' worst ever. I know that that sounds like hyperbole, but some loss has to be the worst, so why not this one? I mean, when has a 5-1 Ohio State team ranked in the top ten ever lost to a 1-5 team whose only win was over a MAC squad? Hell, when has any Buckeye team lost to any 1-5 team? Probably never....

Some previous benchmark upsets are listed below:
10-10-1987: Indiana 31, Ohio State 10

If you play the free association game with a Buckeye fan and say "bad loss", the response will likely be "Indiana". Granted, Indiana hadn't beaten Ohio State since 1951 and they were in the midst of an 0-30-1 streak of futility against the Buckeyes, but in 1987 the Hoosiers were actually a good team. Indiana entered the game with a 3-1 record and finished the season at 8-4, while the Buckeyes fell apart after that contest and ended the campaign with a 6-4-1 mark. That Indiana loss was the beginning of the end for Buckeye head coach Earle Bruce, and he was fired later that year.

11-07-1998: Michigan State 28, Ohio State 24

The Buckeyes entered that game as clearly the best team in the nation, and they were a four-touchdown favorite over the Spartans. Although Ohio State's collapse was one of the most maddening displays of Buckeye football ever and probably cost them a national championship, the Spartans were at least a respectable team that year. Michigan State entered the game with a 4-4 record and already owned a win over a solid (9-3) Notre Dame squad. That 1998 game was just a rare case of the Buckeyes being Sparty.

11-09-1974: Michigan State 16, Ohio State 13

Old timers will also cite that game as one of the Buckeyes' worst losses ever. While Ohio State certainly had a national championship caliber team back in 1974, Michigan State was no slouch, as the Spartans finished the season with a 7-3-1 record. Although the Buckeyes lost the game, the Spartans offense essentially consisted of a pair of fluke plays late in the fourth quarter: a 44-yard touchdown pass to Mike Jones and an 88-yard touchdown run by Levi Jackson. And the game ended with some controversy, as the Buckeyes appeared to have scored a last-second touchdown to eke out the win, but the officials claimed that time had expired prior to the snap.

11-20-1993: Michigan 28, Ohio State 0
11-25-1995: Michigan 31, Ohio State 23
11-23-1996: Michigan 13, Ohio State 9

Those were all tough losses, and each of them cost the Buckeyes a shot at a national championship. However, the Wolverines were still a good team despite being the underdogs, and they finished 8-4, 9-4, and 8-4, respectively.

01-08-2007: Florida 41, Ohio State 14
01-07-2008: Louisiana State 38, Ohio State 24

Okay, Ohio State entered each game as the #1 team in the country, so technically each loss was an upset. Although the blow outs were ugly, it's difficult in retrospect to claim that the Buckeyes were really the better team.​
I'm sure that there are more candidates for "worst loss ever", but for now, I'll stick with 2009 Purdue.

2. The Buckeye offense is an easy target, but why exactly does the offense underperform? I'm not going to analyze any individual players or units, or formations or play calls (I'll leave those tasks to to others), but I will offer up some general thoughts.
a. Jim Tressel has never developed a ball control offense that is based on the pass. Back in the 1970's and early 1980's, the Pittsburgh Steelers, the Oakland Raiders, and the Miami Dolphins won eight Super Bowls with offensive systems that were based on the power running game and deep vertical passing game. Then in 1981, the San Francisco 49'ers under Bill Walsh changed the way that offensive football was played. Although the formations remained essentially the same - two backs, two wide outs, one tight end - the modes of attack were different. Instead of attacking the middle of the defense with the running backs and the edges with the wide outs, Walsh reversed things by using the backs on the outside (often on short passing routes) and crossing the receivers over the middle. In addition, Walsh used the pass to spread the defense and set up the run - when the linebackers and safeties cheated back to stop the pass, then the Niners would attack with running plays. Finally, Walsh relied on a mobile quarterback whose movement in the pocket would cause the defense to flow to a certain side, thereby setting up reverse or counter action to the other side of the field, often involving the tight end. Walsh's "West Coast" offense earned the 49'ers five Super Bowl titles in fourteen years and put Joe Montana and Steve Young (not to mention Walsh himself) into the Pro Football Hall of Fame. Although some teams still continued to have success with the power running attack (the mid 80's Giants and Bears, as well as some recent incarnations of the Baltimore Ravens), most NFL teams now employ at least some elements of the West Coast offense.

Like the West Coast offense, many college "spread" offenses are designed to control the game with the short, quick passing attack. Purdue used the scheme to perfection yesterday, as Joey Elliot was 31 for 50 for 281 yards and 2 touchdowns while controlling the clock for over 36 minutes. Jim Tressel has not been able to implement a similar offense at Ohio State despite having the requisite ingredients - a mobile quarterback, big wide receivers who can attack the middle of the field (Posey and Carter), and quick backs (Saine, Thomas, Hall) who can attack the edges.

b. Ohio State does not attack the middle of the field with the passing game. This is a corollary to (a), above. For some reason, the Buckeye brain trust is in love with deep outs and fly patterns, and they tend to ignore the middle of the field. There are at least six problems with this philosophy: (1) those routes take a long time to develop, (2) it is more difficult for a quarterback to make long "out" and "fly" throws than shorter slants and crossing patterns, especially when the QB is on the move or under duress (see Pryor's second interception), (3) it is more difficult for a quarterback to "check down" from receivers on one side of the field to receivers on the opposite side, as opposed to receivers in the middle of the field or short zones, (4) two receivers often end up in the same deep zone (which wouldn't be so bad if the Buckeyes ever ran receivers into the vacated short zones), (5) it is more difficult for the deep receivers to come back to the ball to help out a scrambling QB (see Pryor's first interception), and (6) safeties can cheat up in run support (or blitzes) when they know that they don't have to worry about passes over the middle.

The essense of a controlled passing offense is to attack the middle in an attempt to get mismatches with WR's on LB's and safeties, or to find a TE or RB on delays in a "cleared" short zone. The Buckeyes do not use this form of attack, preferring to hit big plays on the outside while keeping backs and TE's in to "max protect".

c. The Buckeyes do not use their offense to attack the opposing defense. The way to beat the Buckeyes is send the house and make Pryor beat you. As mentioned above, this philosophy works because the Buckeyes do not put pressure on the defense. Whether he is running a power-I or a spread, Jim Tressel's modus operandi seems to be (1) get a numerical advantage, and (2) have our superior athletes beat their guys in one-on-one match-ups, so that (3) we can hit a "hone run" play. Hence, the reliance on power running (more hats in the hole) and vertical passing (max protect and our WR beats their CB). While this general theme has had plenty of success, it is a risky proposition against teams that have equal (or better) athletes (USC, Florida, LSU), or teams that are simply willing to sell out every play because they have no other hope for success (Purdue). In such games, the Buckeyes have to adjust their overriding philosophy (and not just their plays and formations) to attack the defense with a schematic advantage (no Charlie Weis jokes, please). Roll Pryor on first down, release TE's against blitzes, use reverse and counter action to freeze linebackers and defenseive ends, try a few quick slants, employ a hurry-up offense from time to time. When the defense stops cheating, then you can settle into your game plan.

d. Jim Tressel fails to take advantage of momentum swings. This happened several times against USC, and at least twice yesterday. First, after Purdue's fumble (you know, the one that actually counted), Ohio State took over at the Boilermakers' 44-yard line. With a 7-3 lead already in hand after a quick and efficient touchdown drive, the Buckeyes had a chance to drive the stake into Purdue's heart early in the first quarter. Instead of attacking the Purdue defense right away with maybe a play action or a reverse or a "drag" pass to a TE, the Buckeyes ran the ball into the pile for a two-yard loss ... and then they committed an illegal block on the very next play to set up 2nd-and-22. Momentum killed, drive over, punt. The next time it happened was early in the fourth quarter after a pair of passes to Ray Small dor 47 yards and Pryor's 35-yard run down to the 3-yard line. At that point, Purdue's defense was on their heels, and the Buckeyes had all of the "mo". Instead of immediately attacking the defense schematically, the Buckeyes tried to "out athlete" the Boilermakers with an option play against a goal-line defense. One yard. Next, they tried a pass to Ballard that fell incomplete, but on third down they reverted to the run. No gain. Field goal. Momentum killed. And they wasted two minutes in the process of gaining one yard and three points. Game over.​
3. I know that the general consensus is that "Ohio State's offense sucks!" ... but did anyone notice that the defense gave up 26 points and made Joey Elliot look like Billy Burke? I know that the offense didn't exactly make things easy on the defense with five turnovers and a general lack of aptitude, but the Purdue offense didn't seem to have any real problem completing passes, gaining yards, eating clock, and ultimately scoring points.

4. A brief note about the officiating. Ohio State was victimized by two of the worst calls that I have ever seen - the non-fumble deep in Purdue territory, and the phantom hold on Browning during an erstwhile touchdown run. Those two calls cost the Buckeyes at least seven points (and probably ten or fourteen). Still, the opponent was Purdue (and a 1-5 Purdue at that), so the Buckeyes should have been able to overcome the screw jobs.

Thanks for the info....this is the stuff I like to read so I can learn more about our systems. Go Bucks
 
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and not a single loss from 2004 made your list. one of the few seasons in which the bucks had as much youth on the field as they do today. interesting...

your post is very long and unfortunately, largely irrelevant. why did we loose this game? simple. purdue dominated the los on both sides of the ball. our dline got no push what-so-ever. the middle was a solid wall for purdue and our ends got pushed well up field. hell we made elliot look like a mobile qb.

pryor sucks. the offensive scheme sucks. tressel sucks. actually no, the oline got flat out dominated. no thats not accurate either, it was far worse than being dominated. they played like ass. i have to go all the way back to 2006 against florida to see the # of look out blocks from our oline. it felt like there was at least 1 per down. these blocks, or lack there of, were the DIRECT cause of 3 of the turnovers.

run whatever offensive scheme you want with as much talent as you can find. but if one person per play wiffs a block.... its not going to work. ever.
 
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martinss01;1570865; said:
and not a single loss from 2004 made your list. one of the few seasons in which the bucks had as much youth on the field as they do today. interesting...

your post is very long and unfortunately, largely irrelevant. why did we loose this game? simple. purdue dominated the los on both sides of the ball. our dline got no push what-so-ever. the middle was a solid wall for purdue and our ends got pushed well up field. hell we made elliot look like a mobile qb.

run whatever offensive scheme you want with as much talent as you can find. but if one person per play wiffs a block.... its not going to work. ever.
Our dline got cut 90% of the game... hell when Heyward got hurt that was the 2nd or 3rd time he'd been cut on that play alone.. and even with that they were still in Elliott's face a majority of the time. Kid just played like a gamer, I know a few passes in particular he hit the receiver perfectly while getting hit by a defender.
 
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Zander42;1570869; said:
I think this one is on par with Northwestern 2004, I think they were pretty bad going into that game.

I've already decided I'm going to the Purdue game next year. :sneaky:
Good point. That was probably the previous "worst loss" of the Tressel era. NW entered the game at 1-3, and had just been blown out by Minnesota by the score of 43-17. However, the Wildcats did end up with a 6-6 record in 2004, so maybe they weren't all that horrible. It will be interesting to see how Purdue finishes out this season - they should beat Illinois at home next week, but then they travel to Wisconsin and Michigan, return home to Michigan State, and wind up the season on the road at Indiana. Looks like a 4-8 season (at best) to me.
 
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LordJeffBuck;1570904; said:
It will be interesting to see how Purdue finishes out this season - they should beat Illinois at home next week, but then they travel to Wisconsin and Michigan, return home to Michigan State, and wind up the season on the road at Indiana. Looks like a 4-8 season (at best) to me.

Purdue is a better team than their record indicates...they'd have a winning record if they could hold onto the ball.

That being said...there's absolutely no reason the Buckeyes should not have blown them off the field.
 
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Muck;1570907; said:
Purdue is a better team than their record indicates...they'd have a winning record if they could hold onto the ball.

That being said...there's absolutely no reason the Buckeyes should not have blown them off the field.

I agree 100% with this, but I guess it's why they play the game. I think the problem with looking at games like this are that most seem to forget a few very simple facts about them. For one, realize that your opponent is made up of a group of very talented athletes. You don't get recruited to play in the Big Ten if you don't have any game. Also, it has to be noted that in this type of game, that Your opponent probably wants to beat you more than you want to beat them. Who do you think was the more "fired up" team heading into saturday?

Anybody with a problem following this line of thought need only look back to OUR National Championship game in the 2003 Fiesta. Didn't Miami win about 31 games in a row heading in? Didn't our Buckeye's come in perfect, yet very possibly could have lost 6 games that year? Maybe I'm babbling and should just shut up, who knows. All I know is that upsets happen every week, and nobody is immune. It's the beauty of CFB as we know it.

Peace.
 
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