2008 tOSU WR discussion (official thread)

[Buckeyecty4]

I think they're very much related? anyone else care to chime in on this one... I for one think they're very much related. In high school for instance our recievers ran the same run blocking/beating press coverage in the same drill. Look at Gamble, Look at Teddy Ginn or hell you could look at the WR from the patriots Brown who had to play DB as well. They can go either way. We're a poor press coverage wideout group for some reason no getting around that, but with the physical Stoneburner/Posey coming in that should get much better. Also I agree with what is being said about Robo to an extent.

IMO, I would myself take Manningham, D.Thomas, Benn, and possibly Arrington over Robo. However, lets not forget that Boeckman like stated couldn't find Robo to save his life late in the year...

How many times did we hear an announcer say "Boy, had boeckman looked left he had a streaking wide open...." I think if Boeckman played close to his abilities in the last 4 games Robo ends the season with some pretty eye popping numbers for a 1st year starter (I don't consider being the #3 option in 06 a starter).

Next year we have a lot to be excited about but IMO we are not going to strike the fear of god into opposing teams... The only reason next years group is going to put up good number (and they will, because I think so) is because the running game to be honest is going to be SICK!

Call me crazy but I'm just not crazy about Hartline as our #2 option... I would like hartline like the Colts used Gonzo this year. The in the slot guy who makes the catches on 3rd down, and thats really it. I like Robo as the go to guy, because he can get deep and he catches well in traffic. However, give me Robo/Posey/Hartline/Washington as my order any day of the week over Robo/hartline/Small/Sanzo. I really liked washingtons size and speed combo and I would like to see more of him.

Does anyone else think that our #1/#2 options are kind of too similiar?? I mean they're both tall, above average speed, play well as possesion guys... We need to be more diverse at reciever. Have a guy who can slash and juke, have a guy who can go deep over the middle, have a guy who's big and powerful. Thats why the 06 group to me was so talented... Sure, Troy Smith was great but he was only great because he also had a plethora of talent to throw to. You had ginn with the burners, you had the abilities of Gonzo underneath weaving in and out of people, and then you had Roy hall who was a bull of a reciever. Look at the patriots too.... Deep threat in Moss, underneath guy in Welker, and a intermediate guy in the guy from tennessee (name slips me but I wanna say stallewell)


GO BUCKS!

Yes Hartline and Robo are pretty similar.. In an ideal world i think we'd have Robo as a #2 and Hartline at the #3, slot role... But that's not gonna happen..

I think we are still 2 yrs away until we have the dynamic attack you are talking about... Posey, Stoneburner, and Thomas are all dynamic guys.. Posey is an all around star WR in making.. Stoney is the freak, who can move well for a big man, and can go up in traffic and snag balls.. And Thomas hopefully is the burner, in the Ginn mode..

I just dont expect a ton from them this year.. it's hard for true freshman WR to make big impacts...

We really need Ray Small to figure things out and the three kids from the 07 class to rise up.. Taurian Washington was supposedly one of the best deep route runners around coming out of HS.. And Torrence, i hope he can step up.. i was very high on him, but something tells me he's gonna have a tough time seeing the field.. whether it's the baseball thing being in the way, or not being polished at WR, i just have a bad feeling that Torrence isnt gonna get in the mix..

 

[utgrad73]

Yes Hartline and Robo are pretty similar.. In an ideal world i think we'd have Robo as a #2 and Hartline at the #3, slot role... But that's not gonna happen..

I think we are still 2 yrs away until we have the dynamic attack you are talking about... Posey, Stoneburner, and Thomas are all dynamic guys.. Posey is an all around star WR in making.. Stoney is the freak, who can move well for a big man, and can go up in traffic and snag balls.. And Thomas hopefully is the burner, in the Ginn mode..

I just dont expect a ton from them this year.. it's hard for true freshman WR to make big impacts...

We really need Ray Small to figure things out and the three kids from the 07 class to rise up.. Taurian Washington was supposedly one of the best deep route runners around coming out of HS.. And Torrence, i hope he can step up.. i was very high on him, but something tells me he's gonna have a tough time seeing the field.. whether it's the baseball thing being in the way, or not being polished at WR, i just have a bad feeling that Torrence isnt gonna get in the mix..

This is where I get on my Sanzo soapbox, cty4>

Another name that you missed (but implied) in this last paragraph was Dane Sanzenbacher (one of the three kids from the '07 class). He is a polished WR and has already made it one the field in '07. JT and Coach Hazell saw something in him last year as he stepped in for Ray Small and a season of PT makes a lot of difference. He will be back competing for a spot because he is a gamer with great field awareness that shouldn't get overlooked. He possesses one of those football intangibles that makes the difference between a good WR and a great one.

When you combine Ray, and the two Brians with TWash and Zoom (we have seen his speed and pass catching ability) and the three from the '08 class, I'd say the future looks pretty bright.

This is one of the best WR cores I've seen at tOSU in a long time. We have more depth at WR for the next 3 to 4 years as well as RBs who can catch the football. But, then there's the QB. They'll need to sort out if Henton or TB at QB can make the passing game work. I'm not just talking about throwing deep balls all day, but rather a more balanced passing game using the slot receivers and TE's as much as thowing it deep to Brian and Brian. They can get it done but having a mobile QB in the mix would make it that much more interesting. I like TB as our QB for the experience factor. I would like to see TP join the team and have him and Henton on the field too.

 

[Taosman]

I'm really not so sure Sanzo was the answer last year. And.
Where did he go? He was skinny. Smart kid, though. and he did make some plays. The year in the weight room and coaching will have benefited him tremendously. Competition should be better, also.

 

[Best Buckeye]

I'm really not so sure Sanzo was the answer last year. And.
Where did he go? He was skinny. Smart kid, though. and he did make some plays. The year in the weight room and coaching will have benefited him tremendously. Competition should be better, also.

I think he just kind of hit the freshman wall and just needs conditioning as you say. I still firmly believe he will be a good one for us.

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

Who as Michigan's "play-maker WR" the last few years? Mario Manningham. Was he a "burner"? Based on today's combine numbers in the 40 (4.62 and 4.59...check his thread), not hardly. Still, Mannigham could get open on just about anyone with his moves and route running despite his lack of Teddy Ginn speed. You don't have to be the fastest player on the field to be the most dangerous pllayer on the field.

 

[Buckeye86]

Who as Michigan's "play-maker WR" the last few years? Mario Manningham. Was he a "burner"? Based on today's combine numbers in the 40 (4.62 and 4.59...check his thread), not hardly. Still, Mannigham could get open on just about anyone with his moves and route running despite his lack of Teddy Ginn speed. You don't have to be the fastest player on the field to be the most dangerous pllayer on the field.

Jerry Rice would be another example of a receiver, arguably the best ever, who didn't have game breaking speed but still dominated.

 

[utgrad73]

I'm really not so sure Sanzo was the answer last year. And.
Where did he go? He was skinny. Smart kid, though. and he did make some plays. The year in the weight room and coaching will have benefited him tremendously. Competition should be better, also.

He has put on 11 pounds but who's counting (he listed at 189 now). He has a slight frame but he can run and catch the football with the best of them. TWash has a similar frame, maybe a bit taller and it's obvious he's done some weight room work. Hartline was really lanky as a freshman but bulked up as a soph. I have high hopes for Dane this year. Dane was a force in HS at WR but the transition to CFB is one that seems to need a year of two to adjust to. That's why I think we haven't seen the best of him yet. Then again there's a lot of talent out there with Robo, Ray, Zoom and Beanie to just mention a few WRs in this class. In short there's a lot of competition for PT and touches. I predict a very prolific WR corp this year given the QB will be able to connect with them short and long.

 

[BuckTwenty]

I don't think there's much argument that the future looks bright with the guys we've taken in the last 2 recruiting classes to back-up Robo, Hartline, and Small. Lots of learning still to be had, even by the aforementioned upperclassmen.

Bottom line though is that we need our wide receiving corp and QBs to step it up this year. We know we can run it and we can defend it, but can we pass it effectively to keep us from being a one-demensional team on offense?

I guess we shall see here in the spring.

 

[matcar]

Who as Michigan's "play-maker WR" the last few years? Mario Manningham. Was he a "burner"? Based on today's combine numbers in the 40 (4.62 and 4.59...check his thread), not hardly. Still, Mannigham could get open on just about anyone with his moves and route running despite his lack of Teddy Ginn speed. You don't have to be the fastest player on the field to be the most dangerous pllayer on the field.

That's a good point and something I did not know. That's for posting that.

I don't think any of my posts are intended to slight Robo, who I believe is a great talent, but I do feel that something more is needed. I hope they all prove me wrong, but while I feel we have a TON of solid talent, we lack the gamebreaker that we've had in the past. It's possible that Robo is that and I just don't see it, or it's possible that Small or one of the incoming frosh will fit that bill, but I'll be pleasantly surprised if we have a true gamebreaker next year.

 

[osugrad21]

Who as Michigan's "play-maker WR" the last few years? Mario Manningham. Was he a "burner"? Based on today's combine numbers in the 40 (4.62 and 4.59...check his thread), not hardly. Still, Mannigham could get open on just about anyone with his moves and route running despite his lack of Teddy Ginn speed. You don't have to be the fastest player on the field to be the most dangerous pllayer on the field.

Manningham played faster than those 40 times.

Much faster.

 

[OSUBuckeye4Life]

...and his form coming out of the 3 point stance wasn't exactly "good." Never understood why they run out of that stance anyway.

 

[osugrad21]

...and his form coming out of the 3 point stance wasn't exactly "good." Never understood why they run out of that stance anyway.

...to cover ground with the first step and eliminate "false" steps by getting as much weight forward as possible without being off-balance. However, the entire concept is killed when a kid raises straight up out of the chute.

 

[utgrad73]

...to cover ground with the first step and eliminate "false" steps by getting as much weight forward as possible without being off-balance. However, the entire concept is killed when a kid raises straight up out of the chute.

Yep, it's a track stance, like coming out of the starting blocks without the advantage of the foot stops.

Dorsiflexion on first step.
-Any experienced sprinter knows that dorsiflexion is very high on the important list. Dorsiflexion helps your foot contacts with the ground to be more efficient and explosive. On my first contact with the ground, it seems that my foot is not dorsiflexed as much as it should be and I?m actually making contact more on my toes then I am with the ball of my foot. So that means that I?m losing even more power and explosion through inefficiency just from my first push off and sprint angles. Fixing these things (which would take a great amount of practice, focus, and dedication) might make some dramatic changes in my times and starts.

Trackshark.com - College Track & Field

I tried to wade through this to get some insight. In short, the three point stance lowers the center of gravity and allows the runner to make that first foot plant more efficiently and explosive. Making a faster start in track often makes the difference in the first 20 meters in winning the race. I think many of the WRs have run track and Mario, Trindon Holliday, Brandon Saine, Flash etc know the importance of making that first step. The writer of this blog goes into a lot of discussion about the NFL and certain players like Randy Moss and other potentially great sprinters that chose football over track. Reggie Bush ran 10.42/21.00 as junior part time track runner, Skyler Green ran 10.40 as a sophomore in high school, and Roy Williams (Detroit) ran 10.30 his senior year in high school.


Trackshark.com - College Track & Field)

Sorry, this is sounding too academic. Really fast track guys already have an advantage on the football field but if they can't run a route then they're ineffective. Mario has a little of both going for him, I think. Maybe not the fastest 40 time, but he needs a half step to get open and make that circus catch running with good speed. It's not just about blazing speed in football.

 

[DaytonBuck]

[quote='BusNative;109801;3]What I love about this receiving core is well coached they are in down field blocking. The last 2-3 seasons have produced tons of highlights where you see blockers either finishing blocks when the action passes them or keeping with the play down field.

With the good WR blocking and the overall experience and talent on this offense, Tress & Co. can run a ton of plays out of 3 and 4 WR sets, and Beanie can keep getting those excellent cutbacks, knowing his guys will keep with the play.

Getting excited again... I need to go back to BB73's relaxation thread.[/quote]

I agree completely. A block from a wide receiver down the field can often be the difference between an 8 yard gain and a touchdown. The receiver making an effort on the opposite ide of where the play is going can get away with half assing and not make much of a difference in the play. However on some big plays that's the last guy in pursuit. That can be the difference in scoring. Stalk blocking and the like are tools of the craft for WR that aren't sexy but essential. Coaching stuff does an excellent job with it.

I remember Randy Moss when he first came up with the Vikings potentially costing Robert Smith yardage by virtue of his laziness on stalk blocking.

 

[utgrad73]

First-year player Dane Sanzenbacher got a lot of reps early in the season when Small was dealing with an injury. Sanzenbacher played well, but does not exhibit the big-play ability missing late in the year.
The Buckeyes got some play early in the season from two young players, Devon Torrence and Taurian Washington. Washington did in fact make some big plays and at time looked like a player that could assume the role of a big-play receiver in his career at OSU as he develops as a Division I player.
The Buckeyes return numbers of competent receivers, all receivers with whom you can win, but the receiving corps would serve the offense much more effectively if someone emerges as a big-play guy. Most likely candidates of the returners are Small and Washington.

Dane caught maybe ten passes, drop two or three. It's hard to be the big game player when the frequency of touches is limited. The QB found Robo and Hartline more often because they were the primary WRs's. Who writes this stuff? Washington did make a few good plays, and he may have the deep threat ability. I don't see him as a returner. Have we forgotten about Saine as a returner. Again, this is a roll of the dice when it comes to who plays over whom. Dane will be competing for his position in the two deep. He and Ray will be the #3 and 4 WRs but there's a ton of depth this year. Hartline and Rob will be one and two. The rest of them will be knocking on the door of opportunity and pushing the more seasoned players.